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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul. 7, 2004
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    Scottsville, Virginia
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    348

    Default Rollkur? What is this about?

    I've recently switched back to dressage from the hunters after many years so forgive my "cluelessness"... but what is Rollkur? Something about overbending the neck? Please explain this training practice to me? HOnestly it sounds like bad horsemanship to me but like I mentioned I've been gone a while.



  2. #2
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    Jun. 7, 2006
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    8,600



  3. #3
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    Jul. 7, 2004
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    Scottsville, Virginia
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    Default

    oh no... have I just started a train wreck?



  4. #4
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    Jan. 13, 2008
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    5,521

    Default

    Anky on Bonfire
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uz9r9zqGKhE

    I am sure that are others that know much more than I do about it



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug. 25, 2005
    Location
    Northeast
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    10,349

    Talking

    Do a Search. There are so many wrecks, there is twisted steel all over the place.
    Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.



  6. #6
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    Sep. 20, 2010
    Location
    Brooksville FL
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    16



  7. #7
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    May. 20, 2005
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    Desert Southwest
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    Default

    Yes. Please do your own research and come to your own conclusions.



  8. #8
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    May. 16, 2000
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    4,697

    Default

    Dittoing everyone else. There are PLENTY of threads about Rollkur, so go read through the old ones. I think it's safe to say that the rest of us have rollkur-fatigue. :/



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct. 13, 2006
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    3,505

    Default

    It is a polarized argument over a training method that seemingly has drawn more attention in the dressage world than the other fifty disciplines that use it

    The worst possible footage of this method have been posted to show in slow motion, fast motion, and I hate Anky motion, to show how abusive the method is.

    The argument spans from how long is it okay to use the method, to how deep, to what posture, and what time of day it is acceptable.

    But boils down to extremes such as: All of competative dressage is abusive. All use of bits should be prohibited. All of Anky's horses are lame because of its use.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul. 7, 2004
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    Scottsville, Virginia
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    Default

    Okay, so I'm diving in...
    after being in the hunter/jumper world (and some of that time spent in Wellington) I can say with great certainty that just because someone has gained success in their field does not mean they have done so by being morally correct at all times. Sometimes the people we look up to are not always worthy of our respect. (and let the defense of these people begin...)
    The little I have seen of this particular training method I can say it's not for me. The horse is horribly overbent. Is this the object? This is not the kind of dressage I remember from my younger days. I'm disappointed and sadden to see that this is even considered acceptable.
    I do not prescribe to the theory that you can not make a horse do something it doesn't want to do or it won't do if it's in pain. Not true... horses have great hearts and souls and put up with a lot of crap from us stupid humans. The end does not justify the means.



  11. #11
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    Oct. 13, 2006
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    Default

    This shouldnt be new to you.

    When I did hunter/jumpers I saw plenty of overbent animals, even in draw reins over fences, and horses bitted to their ass at 5 am for a 7 am class.

    Yes. Even at the largest shows in America, although by then the horses have usually been bumped down long enough to know better



  12. #12
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    Jul. 7, 2004
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    Scottsville, Virginia
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NOMIOMI1 View Post
    This shouldnt be new to you.

    When I did hunter/jumpers I saw plenty of overbent animals, even in draw reins over fences, and horses bitted to their ass at 5 am for a 7 am class.

    Yes. Even at the largest shows in America, although by then the horses have usually been bumped down long enough to know better
    Yes, I agree. i've seen this too. i just always held dressage riders at a higher level, I remember DQ's looking down their noses at anyone who considered using gadgets like martingales and draw reins to cut corners.



  13. #13
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    May. 20, 2005
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    Default

    Most of us still look down our noses at "gadgets".



  14. #14
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Beasmom View Post
    Most of us still look down our noses at "gadgets".
    I'm glad to hear it!



  15. #15
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by coco21 View Post
    Yes, I agree. i've seen this too. i just always held dressage riders at a higher level, I remember DQ's looking down their noses at anyone who considered using gadgets like martingales and draw reins to cut corners.
    I would say that there is a puristic approach to riding in dressage that is very strong, but maybe that tends to bend too far the one way.

    Rolkur videos show one extreme, and if you go to some of the schooling shows you can see the wealth of other extremes by people who claim to be the ideal.

    I was never fully shocked by the deep methods because I've been in many disciplines that have far darker corners of their closets, even though its not admitted.



  16. #16
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    Apr. 30, 2009
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    Canada
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    Default

    Rollkur?
    Isn't that a Scandinavian type fish that is cured and rolled up with a pickle in it?

    Now why would a horse want to eat that! That is cruel!

    Call PETA (Proliferation of Ethical Treats for Animals)



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2007
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    TX
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    Default

    Ok, I don't know much about RK, but it seems to be one more technique to help the horse be flexible, overstretching it, so it can then be soft and pliable during a performance.

    Similar to gymnasts, that do stretches, some of them hyperstretching, so they stay very loose and then perform better.

    Does it work for the intended purpose?
    Well, some have won at the top following that technique, although that was not but a small part of all they did to train their horses.

    I guess it depends on how you want to train and what kind of horse you are training, if using some RK would be suitable for it.

    Of course, some will overuse, even abuse any technique and maybe some do RK also, if they feel that is what may give them a better performing horse, people being people.

    The little I know, it tells me that sure, it works, but the pitfalls for most that would try to use that are also large if they don't know what they are doing, like horses then learning one more evasion, not coming in front of your leg and breaking at the neck behind the third vertebrae and so losing a true connection from the back to your hand.
    In a way, RK is like using drawreins improperly, without them, just by the action of your aids.



  18. #18
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    Jun. 6, 2007
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stoicfish View Post
    Rollkur?
    Isn't that a Scandinavian type fish that is cured and rolled up with a pickle in it?
    That's silly....
    rolkur are sort of like corn dogs except they are bavarian and are made with bratwurst, potato pancakes and really really hot mustard...which is cruel.
    * <-- RR Certified Gold Star {) <-- RR Golden Croissant Award
    Training Tip of the Day: If you can’t beat your best competitor, buy his horse.
    NO! What was the question?



  19. #19
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    Jan. 1, 2008
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NOMIOMI1 View Post
    It is a polarized argument over a training method that seemingly has drawn more attention in the dressage world than the other fifty disciplines that use it

    The worst possible footage of this method have been posted to show in slow motion, fast motion, and I hate Anky motion, to show how abusive the method is.

    The argument spans from how long is it okay to use the method, to how deep, to what posture, and what time of day it is acceptable.

    But boils down to extremes such as: All of competative dressage is abusive. All use of bits should be prohibited. All of Anky's horses are lame because of its use.
    Thanks! I think that sums it up nicely!



  20. #20
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    Canada
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NOMIOMI1 View Post
    It is a polarized argument over a training method that seemingly has drawn more attention in the dressage world than the other fifty disciplines that use it

    The worst possible footage of this method have been posted to show in slow motion, fast motion, and I hate Anky motion, to show how abusive the method is.

    The argument spans from how long is it okay to use the method, to how deep, to what posture, and what time of day it is acceptable.

    But boils down to extremes such as: All of competative dressage is abusive. All use of bits should be prohibited. All of Anky's horses are lame because of its use.
    Not bad but it misses the part about the pickled fish.

    Fixerupper, what you described sounds more like Schwung.
    Or possible Losgelassenheit, which comes several hours after eating the hot, hot mustard.



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