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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct. 31, 2001
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    West of insanity, east of apathy, deep in the heart of Texas.
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    Cool WTF is so hard to understand. "Professional" = "paid to ride" - PERIOD!

    I just don't get it. Why is it so hard to understand that when you accept money for riding/handling/driving a horse that belongs to someone else, that you are considered a professional!! Doesn't matter that you're competing "out of discipline", or that you don't make much money for your efforts - you're still a pro, and need to compete as one.

    Seems simple to me - what are your thoughts? Have at it.
    In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
    A life lived by example, done too soon.
    www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb. 1, 2008
    Location
    Nowhere, Maryland
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    3,836

    Default

    And for teaching lessons.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep. 6, 2003
    Location
    WA, Land of the damp Thongpend
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    Default

    Or acting as agent in sales of horses that you don't own and getting paid for it.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    May. 7, 2004
    Location
    Linden, CA
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    877

    Default

    Because juniors are an exception, and that seems to confuse the snot out of people.
    Quote Originally Posted by HuntrJumpr
    No matter what level of showing you're doing, you are required to have pants on.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb. 22, 2009
    Location
    Wisconsin
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    2,756

    Default

    And I thought it was going to be a thread saying that people wanted you to ride their horse for free since he is so amazing and SPEESHL (that is the sarcastic way of spelling that right?). I get people asking that a lot. Nope sorry. Not going to happen. But I will give little Susie free lessons if she comes and works her butt off at the stable for me.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct. 31, 2001
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    West of insanity, east of apathy, deep in the heart of Texas.
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    Default

    Actually, according to USEF rules as I understand them (and that may be not at all well, you understand ), one can act as agent on sales, sell and buy horses and still retain amateur status. But that's not what I'm bitching about. What really rots my socks is an adult ( no junior status confusion here) that knowingly enters a competition as an amateur, when receiving remuneration for riding/training/handling horses that belong to other people.

    This is not a difficult concept. It's pretty straightforward, IMNSHO. So why, for heaven's sake, do professionals continue to flout the rule in order to compete with amateurs?

    Just doesn't make sense.
    In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
    A life lived by example, done too soon.
    www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep. 6, 2003
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    WA, Land of the damp Thongpend
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    No you can not act as agent in sales and take commissions. You may buy and sell all the horses you want if you are the owner.

    Chapter 13 of the General Rules

    SUBCHAPTER 13-B AMATEURS AND PROFESSIONALS
    GR1306 Amateur Status.

    1. .....
    h. Accepts remuneration, as defined in GR1306.2d, for selling horses/ponies, acts as a
    paid agent in the sale of horses/ponies or takes horses/ponies on consignment for the
    purpose of sale or training other than those owned wholly or in part by him/her or by a
    member of his/her family or farm/ranch/syndicate/partnership/corporation which he/she
    or a member of his/her family controls.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct. 31, 2001
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    West of insanity, east of apathy, deep in the heart of Texas.
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    Default

    Thank you for that. I think the grey area is the "takes horses/ponies on consignment for the purpose of sale or training". That, IMO, would indeed constitute professional behaviour, but I would not have thought that acting as agent on a sale would qualify as well. Again, thank you for the clarification.

    But then, it's the competition end of things that has me scratching my head. I mean, really - what kind of pro are you, if you have to compete against amateurs to win and feel successful?
    In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
    A life lived by example, done too soon.
    www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/



  9. #9
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    Sep. 6, 2003
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    I don't know why people want to take money and show and ride in the Ammy divisions. You either are or you aren't. There are ways to make some money in the industry that don't involve being in violation of the rules.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct. 31, 2001
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    West of insanity, east of apathy, deep in the heart of Texas.
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    Default

    Quite right.
    In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
    A life lived by example, done too soon.
    www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct. 24, 2003
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    The rolling hills of Virginia
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    Default

    You probably don't know how to be a little pregnant either.

    SCFarm
    The above post is an opinion, just an opinion. If it were a real live fact it would include supporting links to websites full of people who already agreed with me.

    www.southern-cross-farm.com



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan. 31, 2010
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    Earth
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    Quote Originally Posted by ESG View Post
    Actually, according to USEF rules as I understand them (and that may be not at all well, you understand ), one can act as agent on sales, sell and buy horses and still retain amateur status. But that's not what I'm bitching about. What really rots my socks is an adult ( no junior status confusion here) that knowingly enters a competition as an amateur, when receiving remuneration for riding/training/handling horses that belong to other people.

    This is not a difficult concept. It's pretty straightforward, IMNSHO. So why, for heaven's sake, do professionals continue to flout the rule in order to compete with amateurs?

    Just doesn't make sense.
    I blame it on people that ate paint chips as children. Lead paint chips.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan. 31, 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seal Harbor View Post
    No you can not act as agent in sales and take commissions. You may buy and sell all the horses you want if you are the owner.

    Chapter 13 of the General Rules

    SUBCHAPTER 13-B AMATEURS AND PROFESSIONALS
    GR1306 Amateur Status.

    1. .....
    h. Accepts remuneration, as defined in GR1306.2d, for selling horses/ponies, acts as a
    paid agent in the sale of horses/ponies or takes horses/ponies on consignment for the
    purpose of sale or training other than those owned wholly or in part by him/her or by a
    member of his/her family or farm/ranch/syndicate/partnership/corporation which he/she
    or a member of his/her family controls.
    Yep.And this is the one that will forever haunt me for obeying - see, I was working at a sales barn , and I helped facilitate some high-end sales, and kept telling myself "don't take a commission b/c you are not good enough to compete pro" - but here's the kicker - I had no money to compete PERIOD!! I should have just "gone pro" and enjoyed the money!! Stupid morals!



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb. 28, 2006
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    The rocky part of KY
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    Default

    BUT, but, but, I was talking to a buddy of mine and evidently some of the breed associations (the non-USEF bunch) use a different definition. IIRC something on the order of the old less than $400 annually from horse-related payments.

    So if they are outside their discipline they may also be outside the rules they are familiar with.
    Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
    Incredible Invisible



  15. #15
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    Sep. 6, 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by LLDM View Post
    You probably don't know how to be a little pregnant either.

    SCFarm
    Really?

    No, I understand and follow the rules. Have been a pro and an amateur (and can even spell it!).

    I'm old enough to know life isn't fair and not everyone is going to follow the rules. Some people cheat, some people can not read and/or comprehend what they have read, some have NEVER read the rule because they can't be bothered and some are just flat out stupid.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb. 22, 2009
    Location
    Wisconsin
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    2,756

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    Quote Originally Posted by LLDM View Post
    You probably don't know how to be a little pregnant either.

    SCFarm
    Thanks so much! It is after 1am here and I just woke my husband up laughing



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan. 5, 2010
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    2,152

    Default

    So since this is out here and I was kind of confused reading the rules versus understanding the reality:

    My wife is a professional trainer, has been for ages.. like 20 years. We board other people's horses. We feed them. She rides the ones who are on training board. I handle them on the ground where required (special feedings, worming, etc) but I don't ride or train any horse but my own. I have never entered a competition. I have ridden once in a medieval re-enactment event. The rest of my riding is at home, maybe twice a month at best. Heck, without my wife telling my what diagonal I'm on, I can barely post on it Ok, I'm not THAT bad; but still.

    So, am I a Pro because I throw grain and hold a halter; or am I an amatuer because I've never done it before, don't ride other people's horses for money (or any other reason for that matter, except for a ride on my buddy's Shire once!!! ), and have never once entered a competition...

    I mean, in all fairness, I wouldn't stand a chance in a Pro arena... so am I forever PNG'd from competition as an Amatuer because I married a Pro and drive a tractor?



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb. 6, 2003
    Location
    NorthEast
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    24,809

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    Belg, by what is written you're an ammy, not a pro. Your wife is a pro.

    Being married to a pro doesn't mean you'd have to show pro.

    Since *you* aren't being paid you aren't a pro.

    And in general...why do so many folks think that all pros are top riders? As ESG stated, it only means you get paid in the equine business. Doesn't mean you're good.
    I know lots of ammy riders that are excellent and many pros who are also excellent. But not all ammy riders are beginners and not all pros are great.
    You jump in the saddle,
    Hold onto the bridle!
    Jump in the line!
    ...Belefonte



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Aug. 11, 2003
    Posts
    3,589

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    Quote Originally Posted by MistyBlue View Post
    Belg, by what is written you're an ammy, not a pro. Your wife is a pro.

    Being married to a pro doesn't mean you'd have to show pro.

    Since *you* aren't being paid you aren't a pro.

    And in general...why do so many folks think that all pros are top riders? As ESG stated, it only means you get paid in the equine business. Doesn't mean you're good.
    I know lots of ammy riders that are excellent and many pros who are also excellent. But not all ammy riders are beginners and not all pros are great.
    I'm not so sure that's true. If Belg AND his wife run a boarding business where he is effectively sharing in the income from the boarding business AND he is working there, albeit holding horses and driving the tractor, I would think that he would be classed as a pro.



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug. 30, 2001
    Location
    Purcellville, VA
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    Default

    No, only if he is riding boarded horses or teaching her students. Feeding and driving the tractor don't make you a pro. In fact, running a boarding business does not make you a pro, until you start riding the boarded horses.

    Lots of spouses of professionals have to be very careful of the rules, but what he has described is truly in the realm of amateur, no matter what his wife does for a living.



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