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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug. 22, 2005
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    Default Yet another joint maintenance thread

    I have a 7 year old mare with DJD in 1 stifle. My older horse (who has pretty clean joints) maintains well on just the oral HA + MSM, so trying to manage this DJD thing is new to me.

    She had the stifle injected in late April, and just became sore & needed it re-injected - a total of 4.5 months after the last injection. I would like to beef up her maintenance routine so that hopefully she needs less frequent joint injections.

    I currently have her on Flex Force HA pellets (100 mg/day of oral HA) and MSM (10,000 mg/day).

    My vet recommended polyglycan but I can't give IV shots. I also don't like the fact that HA lasts such a short time in the body, so I would want to continue the oral HA with it and that's getting expensive.

    Since she's already on HA, my first thought was to simply add an Adequan-like substance to cover all the bases. I CAN do an IM shot, so Ichon, Condroprotec, or d-acetyl-glucosamine are all options, and more cost-effective as well.

    What do you guys recommend?
    "You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed." - The Little Prince



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov. 13, 2007
    Location
    NW Louisiana
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    5,265

    Default

    The first thing I would do is double the MSM. My mare (about 1300lb) is less stiff on 20g MSM daily. She's been on that dose for several years. Of course she's 19 and still sound, just starting to get a bit stiff and creaky with the increase in work.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun. 29, 2009
    Location
    Massachusetts
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    410

    Default

    Polyglycan in given IM.



  4. #4
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    Aug. 22, 2005
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hampton Bay View Post
    The first thing I would do is double the MSM. My mare (about 1300lb) is less stiff on 20g MSM daily. She's been on that dose for several years. Of course she's 19 and still sound, just starting to get a bit stiff and creaky with the increase in work.
    Will do!
    "You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed." - The Little Prince



  5. #5
    Join Date
    May. 5, 2010
    Posts
    51

    Default

    Cosequin ASU + Adequan IM + Flax seed is what I've got my guy on. Seems to really be doing the trick! He had OCD removal surgery in May & seems to be coming back VERY strong now! It was a long recovery, but suddenly he seems to be doing great & my vet said he noticed a dramatic difference in his joint fluid from his 30 day post op injection to his 60 day injection from the Adequan & Cosequin!!!
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  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb. 17, 2005
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    644

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by qhwpmare View Post
    Polyglycan in given IM.
    Im assuming you meant "is given". This is largely incorrect though. It CAN be given IM but it means that you get very little value of the HA which is a large portion of what you are paying for with the polyglycan.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    May. 4, 2005
    Location
    Southern CA
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    115

    Default

    I'd bump MSM to at least 30g daily, do the 28-day/7 dose Adequan treatment at least 2 but preferably 4 times yearly and monthly Legend after doing an initial load of 3 weekly shots. You can learn to give IV injections, trust me...I am the biggest needle weenie ever and I am able to do it. Ask your vet to work with you or ask a friend who is either a doctor or nurse if you know anyone. I think monthly Adequan is a waste of money, so I do the full 7 dose treatment instead a few times each year. BTW, one of mine is a 20 yr. old GP schoolmaster still competing at FEI levels in S. CA - this regimen works, developed it with my vet (USEF).

    Your mare is young, only 7 - I would be aggressive. MSM is cheap. Adequan and Legend, not so much but proven results which is more than the orals can say - still much cheaper than retiring your 7 year old and buying another. 4.5 months between injections is not long enough given her young age IMHO, hence why I would be more aggressive with other treatments. Stifles are tough. Is the DJD result of injury, conformation or just use/perhaps genetic? I'd keep her moving as much as possible to maintain suppleness, flexibility and strength in the supporting structures, be meticulous about footing and going down hills. Have you discussed any therapeutic shoeing options with vet & farrier? Is the damage limited to the joint or are any ligaments involved? My vets haven't been too impressed with IRAP in the stifles, other joints YES. Is shockwave an option?



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug. 22, 2005
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    Default

    Interesting. It makes sense that a loading dose of Adequan a few times/year would be sufficient, since it supposedly helps the body produce its own HA.

    My only problem with this regimen is that monthly Legend shots really aren't sufficient - that stuff is out of their bodies in 5 days. I prefer the oral HA because it's a continuous dose and have had good results with my older gelding, but his joints aren't his problem so he's not exactly a tough case.

    To answer your questions - The DJD is limited to 1 stifle and is probably the result of an old injury. No ligaments involved - I had my vet ultrasound the area. She actually is barefoot - NOT because of any dogma on my part but because she has the world's best feet - not just thick-soled and thick-walled but actually maintains good angles (enough heel) without shoes. My vet didn't think shoes were necessary. I'm not opposed if she needs them, but I'd rather not if they aren't necessary, mostly because she's short-couples and occasionally forges (mostly when she's self-exercising in the paddock), so I think keeping front shoes intact would be a nightmare.

    My vet hadn't mentioned shockwave, and it's something that he offers. I'm assuming he didn't feel it would help.

    You've definitely given me stuff to consider ... thanks.
    "You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed." - The Little Prince



  9. #9
    Join Date
    May. 4, 2005
    Location
    Southern CA
    Posts
    115

    Default

    I hear ya about the concern of HA only being in their system for 5 days - precisely the same logic I employ about Adequan and why I don't do the monthly. Actually, I don't give monthly Legend because I've been doing an oral HA, thinking the same thing - that it's better to have a constant level. But, since learning to give IV myself and loading the Legend weekly for 3 weeks now, I am giving serious consideration to 2x monthly Legend for my schoolmaster. I'm making my FEI debut this weekend, the 20 year old is going to pack me around the PSG. To me he is priceless and I'm trying to decide if my money is better spent on the more frequent Legend vs. the daily Lubrisyn that I had previously been doing.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug. 23, 2010
    Posts
    26

    Default Similar situation

    I just had the vet tell me the 22 yr has degenoration in his R stifle only and so I am trying to come up with and affordable regimine. We are doing his first injections next week and he's been on 150mg HA for about a month but nothing prior. So should I be most concerned with HA and MSM or a total joint formula with glucosamine and such? Also SmartPak has Devil's Claw in their Senior SmartFlex... any thoughts?



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb. 9, 2005
    Location
    Upper Midwest
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    Default

    An FYI, and I haven't confirmed this with a scientist/vet, but I was told to break up the msm into two feedings a day. Somewhere I read that it doesn't stay in the body for 24hrs and you do better to break up the dose.

    I'm giving 7500 mg morning and night and see a difference after two weeks in my hock/arthritic gelding.
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  12. #12
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    Aug. 22, 2005
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    FEI1Day - I'm a big believer in oral HA. My big gelding would show a marked decrease of joint clicking and stiffness every time I reintroduced it. I ended up keeping him on the maint. dose (200 mg/day) and I may do the same for Miss Maresie with the stifle. That FlexForce is so affordable that it's not too painful to do this. Oh and congrats & best of luck on your FEI debut!

    I'm really leaning towards Adequan or similar + oral HA + double-dose MSM. I should still learn to give an IV shot but at least there's no urgency (I can keep procrastinating, lol)
    "You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed." - The Little Prince



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep. 12, 2004
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    1,059

    Default

    FYI..Give my 24YO SmartFlex Sr...and he does better on that than he did on anything else...but having said that, he doesn't do any upper level stuff.



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