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  1. #1
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    Default Pricing- what is realistic in this economy?

    I was reading the thread about what was realistic to find for a 5-10k price range for a pony and wondering, what is realistic in this economy? Are there any generalizations that people can make or is my topic being too broad? I think people feel like they can score some real bargains, and certainly prices are lower than they were say, 3 years ago, but are they really rock bottom like some expect?



  2. #2
    Indyana Guest

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    in my recent experience, $5-10 thousand for a pony gets you GREEN with no show record (and likely no lead change)or older and not fancy short stirrup pony (likely off-size/slightly funny looking or colored) that can MAYBE (you are definitely closer to $10 thousand now) step up to the children's but isn't going to be the winner in that division.



  3. #3
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    Those wanting to buy a horse come on here continually frustrated that horse market hasn't gone with the housing market. Well, actually they don't seem to realize that hasn't happened to the horse industry, hence the frustration. The 15,000 and under group saw a lot of shifting and horses going undervalued because there is so much out there in that price range and prices dropped some to be competitive in a swamped area of the market.

    Over 20K I haven't noticed a bit of difference in horse pricing. If you go out looking for a horse that was 50k and winning children's classes in good company, well that horse is still 50k today.

    When you will see a high dollar horse go for under value it is usually caused by a major upset in the owner's finances. However, this hasn't seemed to have upset the prices of the industry as these special horses that go under priced are sold before a dreamhorse or similar ad can even be put up. In other words the cheap horses are out of the system so fast it doesn't cause price competition which would lower prices.



  4. #4
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    We have an absolute glut of horses on the market right now in Alberta! But really, what's happened is the prices have just come back down to a more realistic price (unless as somebody else posted the seller's finances are dire!). The truely upper level horses (and I'm talking 1.40+ horses) are still in the 6 figure range but the 1.10 to 1.30 horses have come back down to a more reasonable $25,000 to $60,000 (considering 2 years ago these same horses were STARTING at $40,000+)!!

    Right now lovely, sound, competive 1.15 horses are a dime a dozen and people are not able to move them easily, it's a buyers market and there are some great deals to be had!
    Go Ahead: This is a dare, not permission. Don't Do It!



  5. #5
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    Where I'm from, the horse that is sound and can pack an amy using a cane in the long stirrup to the AAs still bring BIG bucks. I'm talking high 5 to low 6 figures. The horse has to jump decently and get a piece of the hack.

    That's sort of a special horse, though. Not a lot of them around, so I suppose it's a supply/demand sort of thing.



  6. #6
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    Alot of the tales of amazing bargains leave out some details.

    Like the Pony busted out of the division on a protest or does not have a permanent (or any) card and looks like a really tough measure.

    Or that "Junior" Hunter is doing a local definition of "Junior" Hunter at 2'6" with simple changes allowed.

    Or it has limited experience at the height/level stated in the ad-or the only time it did jump that high was out of the pasture.

    Or, most common, it's lame/has a history of going lame at regular intervals and they just got it sound enough to sell. Without sharing, of course.

    Honestly represented horses and Ponies were off in price across the board for a couple of years-but not that much. They have recovered and, when honestly represented and priced against their honest peer group? They get a fair price.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.



  7. #7
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    I agree, I don't think that horses with a record and honestly represented are selling at enormous bargains, just curious what is reality versus what seems to be the perception of buyers (at least based on what people post on here, I know, not necessarily the real world). The pony thread got me thinking, as well as comments I've heard recently in real life from both sides, i.e. searching buyers and sellers in the low 5 figure range.

    In my opinion though, F8s comment about pricing against the peer group can be a challenge. No kelly blue book for horses, guess that is where the trainers/ dealers come in to help with pricing.



  8. #8
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    For a well-trained horse, prices are down some from a few years ago but still very solid. Prices on the best horses haven't gone down at all.

    The market for green and/or unbroken horses is softer, though. I've seen some really good bargains for babies and snapped one up myself earlier this spring.



  9. #9
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    As I've said before, it's not so much that prices have dropped significantly/bottomed out, more that the habit of overpricing the simply average horse has declined.

    That said, I will also add that prices have come down 15-20% across the board, and more for ponies. Childrens Hunters used to cost $60/75K-$120/150K, now you'll see $40,000-$90,00K return an impressive range of talent. Used to be you couldn't touch a 3'6" horse under $60K, and one with any amount of style was automatically 6 Figures. We now have several good & useful ones in the 40s, and some very impressive ones in the High 5s. I've seen lovely Pregreen horses that would have been $125000 two years ago come in at $85,000.

    We currently have the smallest selection of 6 Figure horse that we've had in years, while the High 5 Figure selection - which used to be vacant - has grown tremendously. Sellers smartly adjusted their pricing this summer and as a result we've had over $1 Million in sales in the past 2.5 months (average price: $94,000, median price: $85,000).

    But the Real Deal is still a Real Ton of money.

    And the poor ponies. We're getting activity, we've moved enough to keep sellers motivated, but it's been rough. I would say those prices have come down nearly 50%. Ouch. Also, lots of creative leasing and trials going on to get the job done.
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  10. #10
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    That is rough about the ponies, any ideas why? Is it because people are more reluctant to buy when their child will outgrow the pony? If the pony is appropriate for multiple levels, i.e. could do ss to childrens to the pony hunter divsion (and although rare, they do exist) are those more marketable because takes longer to be outgrown?



  11. #11
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    This is a very interesting topic.
    I'm currently shopping for a pony. As a petite adult, I have way more options then, say, a tall person. I love me some ponies.

    Right now I have 2 that I am looking at. Same size, extremely similar confo, both great crosses with 1 similar breed. One's a mare, one's a gelding. The mare has pretty much no training at all...gets *most* of the basics. The gelding has everything down including his autoswaps. He's 2 years younger then the mare.

    She's priced $1500 more than him. Neither is registered, both have been taken to small schooling shows with no remarkable placings.

    I don't get it.

    Buying a young horse is a gamble-buying for potential. I've been holding my trainer's hand like a small child-and she really put it in perspective for me. She has a registered Rheinlander with 8 months of pro training for 1k more then the aforementioned mare. There again, her 25k + horses ARE moving. The ones under 10k-dime a dozen and not moving nearly as quick.
    mykidshavefourlegs.blogspot.com



  12. #12
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    I have two ponies that I need to get gone as my DD is leaving for college in the fall, have had no luck in the past with BigEq.com, though I did have them up right before the market crashed - not sure whether I should try that route again. Any advice, is the market picking up there at all?



  13. #13
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    ponymom, what are the stats on the ponies?
    mykidshavefourlegs.blogspot.com



  14. #14
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    I've spent a lot of time thinking about the pony plight. I think several factors cause it to inhabit a slightly different bubble than the rest of the H/J/E market.

    1. Pony market is FLOODED - just look at the turnout for Pony Finals, hundreds upon hundreds of them, and that's what, probably 1/4 - 1/2 of the actual numbers? (I have no idea) And when you watch them all it becomes clear that there are a few dozen truly great ones, and a whole lot of average.

    2. So hard to make money in their sale: You won't get anything out of the greenie because it's too much of a gamble for buyers with young children. So, you hang on to them, put money & miles into them, and hope you don't end up with one of the previously mentioned "average" as there are just too many of them to increase the value of average. (Or worse, it's evil )

    3. Pony parents are often newbies, and ponies are often the 1st horse purchase. Lot harder to sell the big prices to newbie buyers - $25K sounds like a ridiculous fortune for a horse to them, try selling them on $60K for that first mount (for average).

    4. Yup, kids grow out of ponies too fast. They're moving up faster than they can sell the pony - it simply becomes far more logical to lease if you plan on doing the year-to-year progression thing.

    5. The inner dealings of the pony world are far more incestuous than that of the horse world. There are already several quality ponies out there with proven records and proven attitudes- those in the know know which ones they are and go after the proven pony without even surveying the rest of the market. These sellers probably have buyers lined up for next 3 years on these proven ponies (they go so much longer than horses!). It's hard to break into this tight market with a fresh pony and relatively unknown name . . . and those guys have a monopoly on the "big" prices

    6. The kicker - in most areas of the country you simply do not need the super fancy pony to win ribbons and qualify for things. The west coast (don't kill me guys, I lived there, I've seen it ) has virtually zero pony circuit compared to what the east coast knows. The midwest shows are so few & far between that class sizes are always manageable if your goal is to gain points. Having the super fanciest pony out there only really matters in Florida in the winter, at Pony Finals, and in some areas of the upper east coast. Rest of the time a lot of those "average" ponies are Cleaning Up at home, and State HJA is giving them fantastic prizes at the end of the year at banquets they can actually attend, which is plenty 'nuff to make the kid smile and mommy & daddy see some value to their money spent.

    So you have about 5% of the pony public actually caring about Pony Finals, Devon, Indoors, etc, or living in an unfortunately competitive zone, and 5% is a very, very small number of buyers for what's currently available for sale.

    Per the multi level pony - very few can do all 3 levels and do all 3 levels well (SS > Childrens > Rateds), so that negates much of their value . . . they are again, average. The good rated ponies with the good jump and big step are often too much for the SS kids. What you usually have is a great Childrens Pony that can help them get their feet wet in the rateds . . . but if they want to win big there, they're still going to need to purchase a true rated pony. We have several of these. We also have the one that can do the SS, Childrens, and place very well in the Larges at Pony Finals, and yes, he's 6 Figures so you are right in that respect. But a pony that can do that is one of the few dozen, not among the average.

    It all boils back to supply and demand.
    ExchangeHunterJumper.com
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  15. #15
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    It's a conundrum, that for sure!

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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by M. Owen View Post
    That is rough about the ponies, any ideas why? Is it because people are more reluctant to buy when their child will outgrow the pony? If the pony is appropriate for multiple levels, i.e. could do ss to childrens to the pony hunter divsion (and although rare, they do exist) are those more marketable because takes longer to be outgrown?
    Well, there used to be a ready market for ponies and people would buy them for their kids without too much worry about being able to re-sell at a decent price when the kid outgrew them either size- or ability-wise.

    Now that simply isn't the case and a lot of parents would rather just hold out until the kid is ready to move up to a horse. Most can't afford to have two and no one wants to be paying the expenses on a pony their kid has outgrown in addition to buying the move up animal.
    **********
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  17. #17
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    I would agree with Lucassb. We have three families in our barn that have 2 daughters each, they are the perfect kids for lg ponies. The parents are looking for horses because of the growth spurt factor and not being able to move a pony when the time comes. With a mid 5 figure budget they all want to go right to horses and start in the novice division.



  18. #18
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    That said, I will also add that prices have come down 15-20% across the board, and more for ponies.
    I completely agree with this. Prices for horses I see for sale now THAT ARE SELLING (you can price it however you want) are down at least 20%from what I would have expected that horse to sell for a few years ago. If they're unshown the prices are down even more.
    As far as I can tell, no one is buying ponies at any price. I have a friend with a cute childrens type, and no one even has a customer to come see it, let alone buy it.



  19. #19
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    Littleblackmorgan, can I ask what the ponies are priced at?

    I read the pony pricing thread with dismay. I have a really nice large who has pinned champion or reserve every time out (not that we chase down the shows). He's also trail ridden, ridden out with the hounds, done a little medieval reeancting- fun, interesting, different stuff. He needs mileage before he'll be a perfect steady Eddie in new places for a novice rider but is well on his way. Thing is, I have way to much on my plate, and don't want to be the rider to turn him into that high dollar pony.

    I'd like to sell him now, so am willing to price him very reasonably. But on that thread I read that if you price too low (within the realm of what I would consider extremely reasonable) people will be suspicious and pass him by without even looking. How the heck are we supposed to find that magic middle ground????

    Then I read dags' post and just want to fling something....
    Real Horses. Real Riders. Real Results! www.wvhorsetrainer.com



  20. #20
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    thathorse, I'd need to know what price you are hoping to get.

    I probably didn't make this clear enough, but ponies are still expensive. When I say prices have gone down 50%, I mean from 65K to 35K, from 125K to 75K - maybe more maybe less than 50% for whatever the specific case is, but they are still good show ponies, and they are still more $$ than the average equine. While I say average here, I might use the term 'useful' in marketing when comparing them to the Big Guns. These are good ponies, usually especially strong in one suit or another - movement, rideability, jump, saintliness- they all have something going for them, and that's what makes them show ponies. A very, very 'useful' pony can now be had at the $40 - 60/75K price. He may not win at Finals, but he will be respectable.

    That's a decent amount for a pony - I just wanted to clarify what experience I am drawing my conclusions from, because there are a lot of different pony markets out there. You can still get paid well for a good pony, you just might not make a profit.

    And you need to target the right buyer for what your selling. If you target an A Circuit buyer with a perceived low price, then yes, that can work against you. But, inversely, if you target the A Circuit buyer in hopes of getting the A Circuit price, then you must have A Circuit results - in the Childrens or Greens at least, to get that price. If you don't have those, nor show ring media, then you are probably better off setting a realistic price ($10/15k-25K??) and targeting a more local market.
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