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  1. #21

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    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by ivy62 View Post
    CosMonster- He was impossible to handle. He had split the herd and wouldn't leave them. I tried to walk him into the stall they have there and he would have no part of it, he wanted to watch over his new herd. He broke through the stall guard and refused to let the 2 he had acquired leave the shed. If another horse came near them he chased them away..His attention was impossible to get..I am not projecting this onto him. I really wanted it to work but I had my doubts. I gave them 12 hours before I made arrangements to bring him back. All, I wanted was a phone call and a plan. Is that to much to ask for?
    your first sentence says it all....he's a studly gelding..nothing more or less and those guys will find themselves in less than happy situations...they harrass everyone they are near until the "perfect" setting presents itself....

    why you did not put a chain on his nose and make him go into the stall I don't know...you are owner/boss/alpha right ?

    also if I read this correctly you gave a horse 12 hours to fit in to his new surroundings? un-sedated I imagine ?? it could take weeks esp with an animal with those problems

    what sort of a plan would have you envisioned they give you ???
    Tamara in TN
    Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
    I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.



  2. #22
    Join Date
    May. 24, 2005
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    close to the Big Apple
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    The STUD chain was over his nose...and the unacceptable situation was for 5 days! I do not have the money for expensive vet bills if he is really hurt or worse things. maybe in your part of the world it is different.
    The alternative could have even been a stall so we could figure out what to do..
    Like I said, my view I guess is different then everyone else's..
    People who know my horse were surprised at how this went. If you had looked at another thread I started it was about buddy bound and we were working through that very well but this was the straw that broke us...I didn't think it would be perfect but I have never had this happen this way..
    Just forget it....
    Mai Tai aka Tyler RIP March 1994-December 2011
    Grief is the price we pay for love- Gretchen Jackson
    "And here she comes. Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's ZENYATTA!"



  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jan. 17, 2008
    Location
    Dutchess County, New York
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    4,444

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    ivy, I think most people have agreed with you, no need to be sensitive.

    The last boarder that came here had the most trouble relaxing into our place. He wasn't like your horse, studly, he was just incredibly attached to his buddies . . . his owner died and the owner's nonhorsey wife wanted him moved off their farm, so the poor guy left his farm, and his two buddies and was sent here. He made friends but he was just anxious and stressed for about a week.

    Now, though -- he's in a herd of four, and is just as attached to all of them, and is very very happy and content.

    My only point is that sometimes it takes a little while before they settle in, and it is not an indication of anything. Not to say that is what was going on with your horse in his previous situation, just to make the point so if you ever decide to move, you give it a little while if he's not his usual self.

    Where are you near the big apple? Mkevent boards retirees in New Jersey, if you are looking for another place.



  4. #24
    Join Date
    Apr. 4, 2001
    Location
    gr pr, alberta,
    Posts
    2,026

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    Hi

    Just a couple more thoughts (they may have been brought up by others... sorry if its a duplicate).

    I'd be rightfully upset if my horse went lame, and injuries were not brought to my attention. Not just knicks and scratches, but your situation seems that a phone call at LEAST should've been warranted.

    On the discussion of putting an 'alpha' horse into a new herd. Horses will sort it out, they'll fight, put the run on other horses. And usually after a week or so, they sort it out. Sometimes, it just doesnt get sorted out and yes, its time to find a more suitable environment (have seen one gelding that after 6months in a herd, ran a mare through a fence and kept trying to chase her! in this case, the gelding was seperated from the herd becuz of the hazard).

    I only saw this becuz i have an old horse that likes to be alpha... and i know how hard it is to see them with wounds and running scared from another horse. Broke my heart, but had to remind myself... hey, he's put the run and fought a few other 'poor' horses in his lifetime... it worked itself out.

    I'm sorry to hear your horse got hurt tho what a bunch of stinkers to fight that hard! And i'm glad you found him a new home again. Some horses just cant handle a change that well and it takes a long time for a horse to get used to it.

    Hope all is well ttyl
    Carol and Princess Dewi

    **~Doccer'sDressage~**



  5. #25
    Join Date
    May. 10, 2009
    Location
    NC piedmont
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    IMO, it's not that the BO took in four new boarders-everyone needs the money in the horse business-but that BO agreed with new boarder to put that person's horses all together NO MATTER WHAT that did to the herd dynamics with the rest of the horses that were already there. Bo should have told new boarder that if the herd situation didn't work out for all four to stay together, she would do what was necessary for the health and safety of ALL her boarders. If the owner of the four was a responsible owner, that person would have understood.

    Personally, if my horse was ever put into a herd situation where his safety was in question, he'd be on the way somewhere else ASAP. But, if BO needed to move him for the better of all the horses, I'd be okay with that, as long as his needs were being met.

    IMO, BO did cross a line-new boarder should have been told that his/her horses would be put wherever was best for the whole herd-and BO should have been diligent about doing that.



  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jul. 31, 2007
    Posts
    16,415

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    Still a little confused.

    So your kid takes lessons at the retirement place that F-ed up with your gelding? You are pissed about that and want to know if you should take all of your money elsewhere?

    I think the BO wasn't wrong to juggle your horse in order to make someone with a 4-in-1 board check happy. BO did do a piss-poor job of managing herd dynamics. It sucks that they didn't call you back. But 3 calls in 2 hours? To a farm owner? It doesn't surprise me that they couldn't get back to you in that time frame.

    "Living well is the best revenge" applies here. What you want is the best place for your retired gelding and your kid to take lessons. Do what you have to do to get both, and then don't worry about the rest. Really, you'll feel better when you have a great new pasture home for your gelding and *then* you can make a better decision about the lessons.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  7. #27
    Join Date
    May. 24, 2005
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    close to the Big Apple
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    The choice to move him was made 12 hours after the first call...There are a lot of people in and out of that office all day, Yes, employees..someone could have checked the messages...I do not expect a quick call unless I have a cell number but 12 hours since I was there mid-day..
    I was very angry and upset at the situation. I guess I have been spoiled over the years...My daughter is okay with moving if I want her to. We have a horse show to go to with them and let's see how it goes and no I do not mean ribbons, I mean attitude...
    SMF11- Where in New Jersey. I am close to Sussex county and Bergen county
    Mai Tai aka Tyler RIP March 1994-December 2011
    Grief is the price we pay for love- Gretchen Jackson
    "And here she comes. Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's ZENYATTA!"



  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jul. 29, 2005
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    Out in The Country
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    1,924

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    Well, it is much harder for people who are given facts to know how the situation feels. And sometimes you have to make a decision immediately if you think your horse is going to get hurt. Sure, most horses sort it out over time... But also a wrongly placed kick can break a knee....

    I will say that I agree with your actions mainly because your horse was hurt - but also because it appears that was the only pasture - there was a 10 acre field and nothing else (is that correct?) I would as a BO cross fence it so horses can be pulled away for a break if something was wrong for a variety of reasons.

    Now, I will say that in general, as a BO and barn manager on and off over the years at various places - I never run a facility thinking "horses will just work it out" - unless I am only dealing with my horses. Sure I tell people horses work it out USUALLY and I put horses out and give it some time. But I keep a HAWK'S EYE on it and if I feel insecure about the safety of any horse, I move them before I leave the property.

    I totally understand the sensitivities of people who are at the mercy of my decisions. That is why what I would have done - is cross fenced the fields (not just for you but for the future 'Yous'). When managing other people's horses - I try not to have more than 4 in a field. If I have a large field I can put more than 4 horses on it - I cross fence it. If I have 8 horses who get along, I will open the gate and let them visit. But I want the ABILITY to separate them if possible. This is NOT a unique situation.

    Having said that - I have worked for rescues and retirements where loads of horses were in the fields together. We separated horses who caused injury to other horses. But the retirements - most of the time the horses DID settle into each other. But we had a SYSTEM. We took the herd leader and buddied him with the new guy in a separate smaller field. We would leave them together for 2-3 months and then put them into the group. The new guy and the herd leader now had a relationship and usually the new guy went in smoothly. This was a RETIREMENT and most of the horses were over 10 but we had as many as 15 or so in a very large field. Some may be younger with some kind of injury that made them only pasture sound. So we integrated mostly mature horses.

    You mention 4 YOUNG horses and frankly - that is another issue. Young horses are DING BATS in the pasture a lot of the time! An older horse usually doesnt NEED to deal with that. So I think in the end - the good situation changed all for the wrong for him so it was good you took him out. I am not sure it was the BO's FAULT as if she did something wrong. She just made decisions that resulted in the situation no longer being right for your horse....



  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jan. 17, 2008
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    Dutchess County, New York
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    4,444

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    Quote Originally Posted by ivy62 View Post
    T.
    SMF11- Where in New Jersey. I am close to Sussex county and Bergen county
    I don't know where in NJ, I just enjoy reading her posts here. She sounds sensible and knowledgeable. Why don't you send her a PM. Her username is mkevent.



  10. #30
    Join Date
    May. 24, 2005
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    close to the Big Apple
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    Lara- that is mostly my point, there was no plan if something went wrong. If he was just posturing and not hurt I would have left them as I did the week before but once he was hurt that was it. It amazed me that no one noticed his injuries even through dinner?
    Anyway, it is done and I was just venting. I guess I have been very lucky with him in the various places we have been adn I will be just that much more careful when he moves again....
    Mai Tai aka Tyler RIP March 1994-December 2011
    Grief is the price we pay for love- Gretchen Jackson
    "And here she comes. Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's ZENYATTA!"



  11. #31
    Join Date
    Nov. 5, 2007
    Posts
    338

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    sent you a PM ivy62



  12. #32
    Join Date
    Nov. 20, 2008
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    PA
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    Hi Ivy62

    I'm located in Medford, NJ. I have some thoughts on the situation as well..

    Was your horse turned out with mares or near mares at the last farm where he got injured? I had a retiree here before that was extremely attached to mares and he definitely was a "special needs" kind of horse. Some farms are just not set up to be able to give that type of service. Maybe the farm owner has never dealt with a horse of this type before and hence the error in judgement. She definitely should have returned your calls, though. A nonweight bearing injury surely warrants a call to the owner!

    Is your horse on long term steroids? I had a horse here that was quite aggressive on steroids. We were able to wean him off the steroids and his demeanor changed for the better. Is he on any medications that could contribute to his behavior?

    It does take some horses quite a while to settle in to a new lifestyle. Most of the boarders here are settled in within a week but I've had some horses that have taken a while longer. Sometimes it takes a lot of effort and time to find just the right dynamics to make a situation work.

    I agree with the poster who suggested crossfencing the field. I think that seemed like a reasonable compromise but maybe that wasn't possible in this case.

    I hope things work out for you. I think the fact that he was happy and content with former situations does give you some knowledge on what he can and can't handle to help you decide on the next move. Good luck with your boy!



  13. #33
    Join Date
    Sep. 25, 2005
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    The Land of the Frozen
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    This is a perfect example why I hate boarding. I'd be flaming peeed off if it was me. Horse was 3 legged non-weight bearing lame because they tossed him in with the established herd??? NOT cool.

    When Amadeus came here, it took MONTHS for him to be able to coexist in the same pasture with Blondie. It would have been dangerous to him to force him to stay in there with her, even though they had 10 acres to run around on. Everybody here gets along great now but it took a long long time.

    I have no advice, but just damn. Your poor horse.



  14. #34
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    May. 24, 2005
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    close to the Big Apple
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    mkevent- no mare and no steroids..This is who he is...Firm alpha all the way..
    Where is Medford NJ?
    Mai Tai aka Tyler RIP March 1994-December 2011
    Grief is the price we pay for love- Gretchen Jackson
    "And here she comes. Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's ZENYATTA!"



  15. #35
    Join Date
    Sep. 2, 2005
    Location
    Upstate NY
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    13,961

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    Do we even know that the BO knew the horse was injured/lame before the owner did? Of course they should call when they notice things like that. But what if they had not noticed it yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by ivy62 View Post
    Where is Medford NJ?
    Try google....it can tell you.



  16. #36
    Join Date
    Feb. 23, 2009
    Location
    Texas Upper Gulf Coast
    Posts
    375

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    sorry that your horse was injured. When I first got my horse he was at a local barn that the BO's mares were extremely aggressive. Little mare kicked Red with both barrels in the right side. My farrier thought she cracked his rib - he was tender on that side for months and his back right hoof would barely scrape the sand when he was walking - so yeah, she kicked the stuffings out of him...constantly had scrapes, bites, etc. BO put him in another dry lot (her horses got the grass paddocks!) with a gelding that constantly ran the other horses, mounted/penetrated the mares which in general was always a constant turmoil going on.

    I moved my boy to new facility at the same time someone else did. They put our geldings together. Red is laid back - other horse was a loon and was making my horse a cranky from constantly aggravating him. I asked that he be moved and he was thank God. We now have another horse that is very alpha but not mean at all - his name is Sargent (Sarge) and I am sure he got that name because he was dominant even as a foal!

    I would never want Red put in with a super aggressive horse because he is so laid back but by the same token if I had a very dominant aggressive horse I would want accommodations made for him - that is what you are paying for. Unfortunately - $$ talks and everything else walks. I hope you can find a place that can safely turn out your boy where he is happy and safe. It may be a little harder since he is so dominant but as my grandmother always said "fair understanding brings no falling out" make sure that where ever you take him that they understand that to put him in with a bunch of horses may not have the desired results without slow integration!!!



  17. #37
    Join Date
    Nov. 30, 2006
    Location
    Gastonia, NC
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    I own a small boarding barn with 10 horses total, 2 pastures, and four 1/2 acre dry lots and there is always the round pen or the riding arena in a pinch. I move horses around fairly regularly. In my boarding contract it states your horse can be put in any field of my choosing and he will be provided with water and safe fencing.

    This helps keep horses from getting buddy sour, this helps teach horses that are brats and bullies how to stand in line. It helps to know in the future that some horses can not go out in mixed herds or can not go out with mares for example. I might change their turn out group because someone is too fat or too skinny, maybe one horse is hogging all the hay, maybe one horse needs more pasture to keep on his weight, maybe one horse has his belly dragging the ground and needs to be taken off grass.

    Of course if a group doesn't work out, I will find another arrangment! But I have enough seperate fields that I am able to do that. However, I usually give them 3 days to work it out. If they don't work it out I will try a different group. PS I usually move the trouble maker, just saying. Even when new groups are formed my herds are small enough (2-5 horses-usually 3) that there are very few scapes and bite marks and touch wood I have never had an injury more than missing hair.

    Next time you look for a boarding barn look for one that offers turn out in small groups (my groups are 2-5 horses) Be prepared to pay more for it. Cross fencing and land are expensive that is just the nature of the beast.



  18. #38
    Join Date
    Apr. 28, 2004
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    Saratoga Springs, NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by ivy62 View Post
    The choice to move him was made 12 hours after the first call...There are a lot of people in and out of that office all day, Yes, employees..someone could have checked the messages...I do not expect a quick call unless I have a cell number but 12 hours since I was there mid-day..
    my phone, my messages, my employees have ZERO reason to be checking MY messages, and i would be plenty pissed off if they did. just sayin'. plus, what happens if employee checks messages, forgets to pass the message along, has to leave, gets sidetracked, farm owner is busy/running errands/etc? not saying the situation was right, but...



  19. #39
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    May. 24, 2005
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    Times, there are 2 partners, shouldn't both parnters be checking especially if one is absent for sometimes days at a time?
    Mai Tai aka Tyler RIP March 1994-December 2011
    Grief is the price we pay for love- Gretchen Jackson
    "And here she comes. Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's ZENYATTA!"



  20. #40
    Join Date
    Jan. 25, 2000
    Location
    Ohio
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    You can board at 2 different barns. Esp. if you're not regularly riding your retired guy... then your only concern is that he's fine and taken care of if you don't make it out for a few days.

    I have my retired mare, 26, at a barn that split a field so 3 oldies can go out together and not be stressed. My mare rules and all is well.

    The facilities aren't as nice/fancy as the barn I chose to move my eventer to, and with beginners underfoot- I couldn't take it one winter in the tiny indoor, so I moved him 5mi away.
    It seemed awkward at first... taking 1 of my horses out of a barn where I'd always been for 10+ years. But they know why each set-up is great for the particular horse and it's been fine around both BOs.

    My horses are happy. I'm happy.



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