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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Yes, really and you would understand why, when you realize where range chickens "roam" and what all they peck.
    But pecking occurs at the front of a chicken... laying at the back. Ours are free ranging... but they go to their nest boxes to lay the eggs. so even if they've been in the old run in (with old manure to pick through), I'm still not sure how that translates into a bad INTERIOR of the egg.

    Side note: it amazes me how many egg cartons tout how the chickens were "vegetarian fed". Even sacks of chicken feed say "all vegetarian". Got news for ya (general term).... chickens are OMNIVORES!! I love watching ours chase and scratch for bugs. If the chickens aren't fed what their bodies need, then just like a pregnant woman who doesn't get the right nutrition, the egg will suffer in quality.

    Won't do any good to present any studies, you won't believe them.
    I'll read the link you posted. Haven't yet and need to get some work done. That said, can you not support the idea that a good portion of "research" IS tainted by whomever is funding it and/or whomever stands to benefit (money or power) the most?
    ************
    "Of course it's hard. It's supposed to be hard. It's the Hard that makes it great."

    "Get up... Get out... Get Drunk. Repeat as needed." -- Spike



  2. #42
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    Jan. 4, 2007
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  3. #43
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    Jan. 9, 2006
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    Maryland
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    The whole raw milk battle is truly ridiculous.

    From a logical perspective, I can legally buy raw oysters (filter feeders) out of the Chesapeake Bay, which is touted by environmental advocates as being one of the most polluted bodies of water in the world, but I'm not allowed to buy raw milk from a farmer. Ludicrous. Totally nuts...............
    Alison Howard
    Homestead Farms, Maryland www.freshorganicvegetables.com



  4. #44
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    Thanks for that link.

    However it did NOTHING to support the case that free range chickens somehow are "dirtier" than non free range. In fact, to me it said chickens is chickens is chickens (at least as far as egg production/disease goes).
    ************
    "Of course it's hard. It's supposed to be hard. It's the Hard that makes it great."

    "Get up... Get out... Get Drunk. Repeat as needed." -- Spike



  5. #45
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    TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by tle View Post
    Thanks for that link.

    However it did NOTHING to support the case that free range chickens somehow are "dirtier" than non free range. In fact, to me it said chickens is chickens is chickens (at least as far as egg production/disease goes).
    “Physical quality and composition of retail shell eggs,” which was originally published in the March 2010 issue of the journal Poultry Science"
    Some of the results of that study was that there is no nutritional difference in eggs, no matter how produced.

    Some other studies show that "free-range chickens are more likely to be contaminated with PCBs and other environmental contaminants because of their access to the outdoors, where such pollutants may be present".

    This, from the mouth of a real food fadist herself, how about that:

    http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/04/30/the...n-organic-foo/

    As said before, there is room for all, no system is perfect.



  6. #46
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    Feb. 3, 2000
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    Nokesville, VA
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    Don't drink raw milk now (too much hassle) but I have in the past (NY, MA, VA).

    In NY and MA, took a container to the farm and filled it myself. In VA bought it bottled.

    Not going to argue about the health risks/benefits.

    But it DOES taste better.
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    This, from the mouth of a real food fadist herself, how about that:
    http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/04/30/the...n-organic-foo/
    I will add that while it is great that the guy in the overalls at the farmers market sells you stuff...but you need to ask pointblank to come to his farm and see his facility. then decide if you want to eat his stuff...

    really
    Tamara in TN
    Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
    I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.



  8. #48
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    May. 3, 2006
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    What a ridiculous thread title and what a display of commercial and business naivety.

    You'll be very lucky if you don't get a cease and desist letter for touting such opinions. Except I'm thinking that if the company concerned actually saw this they'd pat you on the head and say "bless"

    It's not bullying. It's called a free market economy.

    You choose who you buy from. You choose who you sell to.

    You choose whether the contract suits your needs BEFORE you enter into it.

    Some buyers have buying power and that means they seek to get the best possible deal for their end users/consumers and when entering into a contract which gives a huge degree of certainty then it's usual business practice to have conditional clauses.

    If you don't like them or it doesn't suit then you don't get locked into that contract.

    End of!



  9. #49
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    Jun. 4, 2002
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    Suffolk, VA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lmabernathy View Post
    Why do you want raw milk? to make your own cheese? What else can you do with it? Just curious
    OMG...raw milk tastes so much better than pasturized milk. Yes you can make butter from it if you want to also but most people just drink it. Many people believe that pasteurizing milk actually makes it harder to digest and less nutritious, so there are certainly pros and cons. It most certainly changes the taste for the worse. I can't drink store bought milk but I like raw milk.



  10. #50
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    TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream Believer View Post
    OMG...raw milk tastes so much better than pasturized milk. Yes you can make butter from it if you want to also but most people just drink it. Many people believe that pasteurizing milk actually makes it harder to digest and less nutritious, so there are certainly pros and cons. It most certainly changes the taste for the worse. I can't drink store bought milk but I like raw milk.
    "Most people" may believe what they wish, but that doesn't necessarily makes their beliefs true.



  11. #51

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas_1 View Post
    What a ridiculous thread title and what a display of commercial and business naivety.

    You'll be very lucky if you don't get a cease and desist letter for touting such opinions. Except I'm thinking that if the company concerned actually saw this they'd pat you on the head and say "bless"

    !
    it originated from the very co op members told "no" crying to the media...a common practice here if you don't get what you want on your own and can put a real hippy-fied "fighting the man" twist on things.

    as an aside I knew people once who moved here from far away, who drove an hour one way into the
    Valley to buy "whole,natural" foods...I knew 6 different farmers w/in 3 miles of the their house who would have supplied them what they wanted in either vegetables or meats but they were to dumb to ask...so I told them about the locals....

    oh no! they were aghast...

    they had been told by their god...ermm the media that all farmers who did not have fancy storefronts or went to farmers markets sucked and mistreated,mismanaged,poisoned,hormone-ed and on and on all the products they had...

    which was not the case as I knew the farmers...but I watched them take their very small budget for all that mess of kids they had and then have to ration out this "majikal" food they hauled in from far away until they moved two years later...

    my mind boggled

    Tamara in TN
    Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
    I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.



  12. #52
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    TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamara in TN View Post
    it originated from the very co op members told "no" crying to the media...a common practice here if you don't get what you want on your own and can put a real hippy-fied "fighting the man" twist on things.

    as an aside I knew people once who moved here from far away, who drove an hour one way into the
    Valley to buy "whole,natural" foods...I knew 6 different farmers w/in 3 miles of the their house who would have supplied them what they wanted in either vegetables or meats but they were to dumb to ask...so I told them about the locals....

    oh no! they were aghast...

    they had been told by their god...ermm the media that all farmers who did not have fancy storefronts or went to farmers markets sucked and mistreated,mismanaged,poisoned,hormone-ed and on and on all the products they had...

    which was not the case as I knew the farmers...but I watched them take their very small budget for all that mess of kids they had and then have to ration out this "majikal" food they hauled in from far away until they moved two years later...

    my mind boggled

    Tamara in TN
    All that neo-neo-luddites believe is wonderful marketing and what is even sadder, they got the media to do the marketing for them --- FREE, in those sitcoms and celebrity shows, that needed some windmills to tilt at, if they have to invent them for their shows.



  13. #53
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    Jan. 16, 2002
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    West Coast of Michigan
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    raw milk tastes so much better than pasturized milk
    Blecch. Matter of opinion.

    I agree there is certainly room for both, but don't really view the Organic Valley decision as anything more than running a business. Markets are driven by demand. It takes a long time for a "niche" type of product to develop a consistent base that drives enough demand to make it a good business decision.

    Not saying that a raw milk philosophy is a fad or insignificant, but it's nothing more than a tiny fraction of the Milk Business, and the 1 percent can never drive the 99 if you're running a business.
    Click here before you buy.



  14. #54
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    Jan. 9, 2006
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    GA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lmabernathy View Post
    Why do you want raw milk? to make your own cheese? What else can you do with it? Just curious
    It just tastes better. I was raised on it, and my kids were for 6 yrs until we moved away from my supplier. We made butter, homemade ice cream, whipped cream, custards etc.. I just prefer it.

    Wait a minute-clarification here. If your cow gets into the wild onions or the acorns the milk will be NASTY. Our cows did one time and Daddy had conniptions. Mostly they ate better than we did. Also, it is better if the milk sits in the coldest part of the fridge for 24 hours. Just personal preference

    Cleanliness is not an option, it is a fact that must be adhered to for safety. I won't buy raw milk from anyone who I have not seen how they keep their cow. My daddy was not neat in many ways, but when it came to milking, he was surgically clean.
    Last edited by Gnalli; Sep. 10, 2010 at 11:21 AM. Reason: addition
    http://community.webshots.com/album/548368465RfewoU[/url]

    She may not have changed the stars from their courses, but she loved a good man, and she rode good horses….author unknown



  15. #55
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    Feb. 3, 2000
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    Nokesville, VA
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    It isn't just aq question of "clean".

    Cows supplying raw milk must, at a minimum, be "tuberculin tested", and I expect that, nowadays, they need to be tested for other things as well.
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



  16. #56
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    Oct. 2, 1999
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    Mendocino County, CA: Turkey Vulture HQ
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    “Physical quality and composition of retail shell eggs,” which was originally published in the March 2010 issue of the journal Poultry Science"
    Some of the results of that study was that there is no nutritional difference in eggs, no matter how produced.

    Some other studies show that "free-range chickens are more likely to be contaminated with PCBs and other environmental contaminants because of their access to the outdoors, where such pollutants may be present".

    This, from the mouth of a real food fadist herself, how about that:

    http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/04/30/the...n-organic-foo/

    As said before, there is room for all, no system is perfect.
    There is plenty of evidence that "you are what your food eats" - which is to say, there's a very different nutritional profile between corn-fed beef and grass-fed beef, between wild salmon and farm-raised salmon, between crops raised on different soils and fertilizers.

    If you don't believe me, why is it that grapes from Napa are worth over $4,000 a ton while grapes of the same variety just across the county line in Lake County are worth $800 a ton? Differences in microclimate produce differing amounts of sugar and other chemicals in the grapes; these differences that can be tasted affect other nutrients as well. Terroir is not unique to grapes.

    The post you linked to is about corporate organics, food raised to the letter of the standard, and to a large extent I agree. The food in your supermarket, raised in large monocultures, frequently a week or more out of the field, losing nutrients every day won't necessarily show a large difference by the time it is tested. There are more distinct differences if you sample right at harvest, and again these will vary by farming practice and soils.

    But the same people who are telling you that it makes no difference what a hen eats or how she is kept will be selling you "Omega-3 and DHA enhanced eggs", eggs that get that way because of the diet fed to the hens. (And there's no question that they do have more Omega 3 etc.) In my own chicken-keeping, I have one set of hens that free range in a tractor, with grass and weeds and bugs, and another couple that are living inside just on chicken feed, of the same breed and even from the same hatching. The difference in eggs visually is very obvious.

    Comparison of nutritional analysis between commercial and several pasture-raised egg flocks

    Our testing has found that, compared to official U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) nutrient data for commercial eggs, eggs from hens raised on pasture may contain:

    • 1⁄3 less cholesterol
    • 1⁄4 less saturated fat
    • 2⁄3 more vitamin A
    • 2 times more omega-3 fatty acids
    • 3 times more vitamin E
    • 7 times more beta carotene
    Note emphasis on may - it depends on the pasture they graze on. And "Free-range" on a supermarket egg carton doesn't usually mean "pastured."
    If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket



  17. #57
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    LOL, on the vine example!

    Much of that is marketing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  18. #58
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    May. 9, 2008
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    I have one of the most accurate tests available for the farm raised, free range eggs versus the supermarket eggs...

    My dogs.

    My mom gave me a carton of eggs she had just purchased by accident. We always have a surplus here with so many chickens and ducks, but hey? The dogs will eat them right?

    My dogs will sit next to me in the kitchen with those happy little faces waiting for their scrambled egg and oatmeal breakfast feast. They will lay down on the floor and lick their bowls for 20 minutes after they finish eating and then find me and give me huge sloppy dog kisses to thank me.

    Obviously this is not the case with store bought eggs!

    Made breakfast just as I always do for them. Not a single change other than the eggs. Set down the bowls and waited for them to pounce! The dove in and almost simultaneously they lifted up their heads and looked at me. Then they proceeded to nose around their bowls. My collie mix actually left egg in his bowl.

    And to make it really bad? I didn't get my kisses!

    I threw the rest of the eggs away and made it up to them the next morning. And yes, they wolfed down their breakfasts!
    I Loff My Quarter Horse & I love Fenway Bartholomule cliques

    Just somebody with a positive outlook on life...go ahead...hate me for that.



  19. #59
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    Oct. 2, 1999
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    LOL, on the vine example!

    Much of that is marketing.
    A little bit, but you know those are wholesale prices being paid by large wineries who can buy grapes from anyone on the north coast easily, and from areas like Oregon or the Central Valley or Southern California with only a bit more effort. Napa doesn't really have much more marketing cachet than Sonoma, and Napa gets much more than Sonoma. These aren't the consumers being swayed by the label. They hire small armies of people to test the grapes in the fall, to decide when to pick and, if not already under contract, which grapes to buy. They can and do play growers and areas against each other. At a difference of $3200 a ton, they could buy an awful lot of marketing.
    If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket



  20. #60
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    Sep. 16, 1999
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    thank you poltroon... you've summed up what I trying to say.

    As for the changes to milk due to pasteurization....

    http://chestofbooks.com/health/natur...urization.html

    not saying either system is perfect, and you do have to weigh the benefits and risks for yourself.. but those who say there are no ill effects from pasteurization I guess don't have all the information on the subject because ill effects DO exist.
    ************
    "Of course it's hard. It's supposed to be hard. It's the Hard that makes it great."

    "Get up... Get out... Get Drunk. Repeat as needed." -- Spike



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