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  1. #1
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    Mar. 19, 2007
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    Default Anyone ever take a horse shoer to small claims court?

    Anyone ever take a horse shoer to small claims court?

    I'm not saying I would but the thought did occur to me the other day as I was pulling off a horse's shoes who had just been shod 2 1/2 weeks earlier for the tune of 140 dollars. Standard shoeing, nothing fancy.

    The horse had completely over grown the shoes in about 10 days.

    So, so much for that farrier, he wont be here again.

    This got me to thinking, has anyone taken a farrier to court and got their money back? A shoe job that lasts 10 days... completely unacceptable.



  2. #2
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    Default

    If the horse had already outgrown the shoes, that means the shoes were tacked onto a very long foot, right?

    If that was the case, why didn't you tell the farrier when he was working on the horse "hey, still seems a bit long"?

    Or if you weren't there, why didn't you call him back the next day when you saw the feet were still very long?

    I'm not quite comprehending how a horse could outgrow shoes in 10 days, unless the feet were left extremely long? Correct me if I'm wrong or misunderstanding!
    Tell a Gelding. Ask a Stallion. Discuss it with a Mare... Pray if it's a Pony!



  3. #3
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    Default

    So it couldn't possibly have been an inadaquate trim and a shoe that was too small or not shaped correctly?

    He talked it up like it was a great balanced trim. He said the 4s the horse was in were too big, and that he'd trim him correctly and he should go in a 3.


    Why is it my fault the shoer did an inadequate job?

    Why shouldn't I be entitled to my money back?

    Why should I have to freeking baby sit the shoer and TELL HIM how to do his job?



  4. #4
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    Sep. 2, 2005
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    Default

    No, you do not need to babysit. But you do need to be responsible.

    It is hard to believe that if the trim job was that bad and the shoes that small that you did not notice it until the shoes were falling off.



  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC and the Sunshine Band View Post
    So it couldn't possibly have been an inadaquate trim and a shoe that was too small or not shaped correctly?

    He talked it up like it was a great balanced trim. He said the 4s the horse was in were too big, and that he'd trim him correctly and he should go in a 3.


    Why is it my fault the shoer did an inadequate job?

    Why shouldn't I be entitled to my money back?

    Why should I have to freeking baby sit the shoer and TELL HIM how to do his job?
    Don't get your feathers all ruffled on me, I'm just trying to understand the situation a bit better.

    Have you called him and let him know you weren't happy? I'm just confused that if you knew the shoes were too small and the trim was bad, why didn't you let him know you weren't satisfied with the work? It seems like taking him to court is a huge jump from where you're at now, but I could be missing something, that's why I asked.
    Tell a Gelding. Ask a Stallion. Discuss it with a Mare... Pray if it's a Pony!



  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by trubandloki View Post
    No, you do not need to babysit. But you do need to be responsible.

    It is hard to believe that if the trim job was that bad and the shoes that small that you did not notice it until the shoes were falling off.
    Yes, this is what I was attempting to say.
    Tell a Gelding. Ask a Stallion. Discuss it with a Mare... Pray if it's a Pony!



  7. #7
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    Sep. 25, 2005
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    Default

    I would think that the costs and time involved in going to small claims court would far outweigh the possible $140 you might stand to gain back. The better approach would be to call the farrier and explain the problem and ask him to re-shoe the horse at no cost. Seems like you're trying to kill a spider with a nuclear bomb.

    Of course if you're pissed off enough to sue your farrier for one bad shoe job, chances are good that things have been bad for a LONG time and this is the final straw. In that case, he's probably not very willing to work with you either so asking for a free shoeing probably won't get you anywhere.

    I'd say just cut your losses and move on. Do you REALLY want to be known in your horse community as the woman who sues farriers? The chance of getting another farrier to take you on would be slim to none after that stunt.

    If the farrier did something egregious and caused severe harm, disability, or death to your horse, then I'd say you might have a leg to stand on.



  8. #8
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    Default

    No, you shouldn't. There's a reason there are many farriers in this country...not every one pleases every single person.

    You can do one of two things.

    1. Call him, explain why you are upset, give him a chance to fix it...or be up front and honest and explain to him that you won't be using his services any longer...just doesn't work for you.

    2. Or you can take the low road and simply never call him back again.

    There's something I have learned with farriers....99 percent of the time, if you are up front and honest.....they are not offended and will understand. If you go behind their back and badmouth because they didn't work for your horse or just fire them/leave a voice message/text, etc...they will never work for you again.

    Treat him how you would like to be treated. If you made a mistake, wouldn't you want someone to explain to you why you are "firing" them?



  9. #9
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    Jul. 31, 2007
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    Default

    Horse people who want to take other horse people to court over arcane horsey things must remember that presiding judges and usually juries aren't horsey.

    For that reason, you'll need a credible horsey witness to do the educating that you as an interested party and amateur can't do. In this case, which farrier do you think would stand up for you? If you think you can't get another farrier to work on your horses because you sued one, imagine what things will be like after you call around to find one who will testify against another in your area.

    Suing people is harder and sh!ttier than it looks.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  10. #10
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    KC and the Sunshine Band

    Anyone ever take a horse shoer to small claims court?


    Not that I know of, but I'm sure somebody has.

    I'm not saying I would but the thought did occur to me the other day as I was pulling off a horse's shoes who had just been shod 2 1/2 weeks earlier for the tune of 140 dollars.


    Why did you pull the shoes? Are you the horse's owner?

    Standard shoeing, nothing fancy.

    What's a "standard shoeing"? I'm not being facetious, I really don't have any idea what you mean because every horse is different - presumably, you mean open-heeled shoes on all four corners.

    The horse had completely over grown the shoes in about 10 days.

    No kidding? Did you take before and after pictures? Like ever other experienced plater, I've shod a bazillion race horses as tight as Dick's hatband, including a bunch of 'em on 21-day schedules, but I've NEVER had one over the plate at 10 days. Not once, not ever.

    So, so much for that farrier, he wont be here again.

    Doubtless, he'll be heartbroken.

    This got me to thinking, has anyone taken a farrier to court and got their money back? A shoe job that lasts 10 days... completely unacceptable.

    Quite frankly, I've got a problem with the ten-day thing because it's beyond my experience: I'd want to know what the farrier started with, what the job looked like when he finished - and, most importantly - what the job looked like after ten days, BEFORE the shoes were pulled.

    Something ain't quite kosher about this deal because in order for the wall at the quarters to be over the shoe at 10 days, the shoe had to have been set under at the quarters on day one. It could've happened, but it's not a mistake an experienced farrier would make - hell, it's not a mistake a two-week shoeing school dropout would make.
    Tom Stovall, CJF
    No me preguntes cualquier preguntas, yo te diré no mentiras.



  11. #11
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    Jun. 24, 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by dalpal View Post
    There's something I have learned with farriers....99 percent of the time, if you are up front and honest.....they are not offended and will understand. If you go behind their back and badmouth because they didn't work for your horse or just fire them/leave a voice message/text, etc...they will never work for you again.
    I'm glad you posted that. I'm having issues with a new trimmer and have been trying to think of how to handle. I'm such a confrontation wimp that I was having to work myself into telling him I wasn't happy with his work, but hearing that you've had good experiences discussing issues with farriers makes me feel better!
    Visit us at Bluebonnet Equine Humane Society - www.bluebonnetequine.org

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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by cowgirljenn View Post
    I'm glad you posted that. I'm having issues with a new trimmer and have been trying to think of how to handle. I'm such a confrontation wimp that I was having to work myself into telling him I wasn't happy with his work, but hearing that you've had good experiences discussing issues with farriers makes me feel better!

    I have......not guaranteed 100 percent.....but it's been my experience that when you are dealing with men, they appreciate direct (polite) honesty/truthfulness. I had let one farrier go due to distance for him....and when I called him up and asked him to come back...he was very willing to put me back on his client list and told me that he had no problem because I had been up front and honest with the entire situation.

    I think if you go about it without being accusatory or emotional...you can have an open/frank discussion with most farriers. "Here's what I'm seeing, here's what the horse is doing, why I want to know if we can try something different"....go this route instead of being emotional..and I think most people will respond well. Most people in the service industry want to make you happy, if you aren't up front about what your concerns are...they can't.

    And fwiw....I'm a confrontational wimp myself. All about how you approach the situation.



  13. #13
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    Oct. 10, 2009
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    Default

    I wish I could sue the farrier I briefly used who screwed up a really lovely show horse... luckily horse is OK now, but it was a lot of time off, missed shows, etc.
    In court, though, how could I prove without a doubt that it was the crappy trim & not something else that caused the lameness? Would I want to drag my wonderful farrier into court as an expert witness against the bad farrier? There are just so many variables in hoof care and soundness, I think it would be very hard to prove. And expensive and time-consuming.

    One thing I've learned over the years is you have to love your farrier and have complete confidence in him... and be the best, most knowledgeable client you can be.



  14. #14
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    Default

    Personally, I think you would have to be nuts to sue someone over $140. Unless your goal was to prove a point.

    I do think talking to the farrier is a much better approach than going behind his back, but I also find that many farriers are not exactly approachable. They don't seem to tolerate questions well and do get defensive, and clients are generally are already a little intimidated by them.

    I also would say that this summer I have seen horses' feet growing much faster than normal (and it has been a dry summer) and their schedules have had to be shortened accordingly. I also knew a horse who routinely overgrew his shoes in a very short time and was totally hanging over them by the end of the cycle. He was a very flarey horse exacerbated by being fed large amounts of high sugar starch.

    So maybe it's not entirely the farrier's fault.

    And this
    I'm not quite comprehending how a horse could outgrow shoes in 10 days, unless the feet were left extremely long? Correct me if I'm wrong or misunderstanding!
    does not make sense to me. It's a question of initial fit, not how long the feet were at reset. If they're length 'X' presumably the farrier sets the shoe to fit that length whether it's short or long.



  15. #15
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    I only used the guy one time in between when my regular farrier couldn't fit me in for scheduling reasons.

    I just pulled the shoes, figured I wouldn't use the guy again and figured it was a learning experience, but it just got me thinking... does anyone ever try to get their money back from some of these yahoos?

    It's funny how some of you put this all on me. Like it's my fault that a guy who advertises himself as a journeyman certified farrier and has 25 years experience does such a poor job that I pull the shoes off myself 2 1/2 weeks into the shoeing cycle. My regular guy is back next week and will reshoe the horse correctly.

    I just wonder what shoers would be like if they were held accountable for their actions.



  16. #16
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    Jan. 23, 2005
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    Was it 2.5 weeks or 10 days?
    M



  17. #17
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    With regard to your question then here in the UK there's no need to go to court.

    If you have a complaint then you just submit it to the Farriery Registration Council and their disciplinary Committee will investigate and take appropriate sanction and also make remedy.

    However with regard to your posting, something doesn't sound right. Not at all.

    I'd love to see the photos please?



  18. #18
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    I only used the guy one time in between when my regular farrier couldn't fit me in for scheduling reasons.
    He said the 4s the horse was in were too big, and that he'd trim him correctly and he should go in a 3.
    In that situation where you were getting your farrier back next time, I would not have let him do that.

    And no, it would not be worth sueing
    over this.



  19. #19
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    Wow, did you check with the American Farrier's Association to make sure this guy is a Journyman farrier? I'm only asking because that at least guarantees a fair amont of knowledge of the structures of the foot, leg, etc. Most AFA certified journeyman farriers I have used have been absolutely excellent. I'm using one now who is just the best. I'd be really surprised if this was indeed a journeyman farrier.



  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHS View Post
    Was it 2.5 weeks or 10 days?
    I was wondering the same thing. Kind of a big difference.



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