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  1. #1
    BogBridge Guest

    Default Horses with COPD

    Looking for any OTC or Herbal treatments for horses with COPD. LEt me know what has worked for you, we'd like to get off of steroids.



  2. #2
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    Check out Hilton Herbs or Wendal Herbs. I think they both have blends specific for COPD.

    WENDAL: http://www.wendalsusa.com/wendals_equinehealth.html

    HILTON: http://www.hiltonherbs.com/
    --Gwen <><
    "Treat others as you want to be treated and be the change you want to see in the world."
    http://www.thepenzancehorse.com



  3. #3
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    SmartBreathe: http://www.smartpakequine.com/Produc...8&cm_vc=Search

    Organic Iodide Powder: http://www.shanestack.com/shop/index...-flypage-13106

    I used Smartbreathe year round and Iodide powder when I knew it would be more aggravated. That combo worked great for me



  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by BogBridge View Post
    Looking for any OTC or Herbal treatments for horses with COPD. LEt me know what has worked for you, we'd like to get off of steroids.
    i have a horse with copd and let me tell you 1st of all herbs dont and wont cure it

    and no herbs actually help it and before callabus jumps in and say this and that as shes quoting sites that i gave her on another topic a few weeks back

    so i know both the people at wendall and hilton

    and copd is something i know a lot about

    years ago feed companies didnt do anything to help the hroses with copd or gut issues as they only stood for 5% of the market place however spillers and a couple of other top feed merchants here in uk are now creating a varity of feeds to cover this 5% of the market place by introdcings stuffs to help horses that do have health issues, this can range from hoof issues as in laminitus feedstuffs, to older horses so added vitimins and minerals etc
    and of course the horses that have gut issues or operation now there are kinder feeds avialble for the stomach, as with copd then ther are feeds out there that have added herbs like mint and garlic etc to help the resprotory track

    the herbs that are on offer via wendals or hilton can be additive into your feed stuffs and you may think they might help well they do makes rather a nice smell - so inviting to eat haha but doesnt actually make any difference to the horse

    but there are things you can do
    1st understand what copd is chronic obstruction pluonary decease
    heaves , broken wind, aveolar emphysema equine asthma
    this is a chronic respirtory condition horses with it will always have it in time it can worse , as it can flare up, never ever belive your horse only has a dust allegy, stuff that air bourne effect the resirtory track like pollon, crops , dust, they are hyposenesitive to dust atigens and the enviroment

    so 1st off check that you or your yard owner isnt using moudly hay and straw

    simple things you can change to help your horse with copd which isnt herbal but commonsense

    1-- change the bedding to shavings as this doesnt have spours like straw does as straw of any type can be dusty

    2- change the hay to haylage if you can if not dampen all feeds and hay
    as this will reduce the amount of dust in the hay nd any small particles which up set the hhorses airways

    3- put the hay on a pile on the floor rather than having it hay up as this to will reduce the hay particle situation

    4- do not understand do not muck out when horse is in the stable
    as this will puff up and cuase a dusty atmostphere for him

    5- buy a small water spray bottle or use an x soapy spray bottle
    with a nozzle - spray the air with water before you bring your horse in
    and after you have mucked out so effectively make it a rule to spray the air in your stable before the horse is brought in


    1 members found this post helpful.

  5. #5
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    6- dont stbale in a windy part of the yard - this creates dust
    nor near any crops, dont ride through crops of any sort like rape seed as this is the world worse for a horse with copd

    7- dont stbale a horse next door to one on straw as every time the horse moves or is mucked out it will come over on your side as it air bourne particals

    8- make sure when your going to use an areana that its well kept via dampening and harrowing the last thig you need is dusty areana to work in

    9- always go to any event s ahd check the footing not just for feet you know but see how its looked after if not then dont go


    10 - GOLDEN Rule AT ALL TIMES IF YOUR HORSE STARTS COUGHING AS IN A COUGHING FIT STOP WORKING HIM

    11- can get ventapulin of the vet for a horse with copd it opensup the airways and can be given in his feed as it its powder

    12- alway where a fly mask when out nothing worse when you have a problem to make worse by being attcked by flys

    a hors with mild attack of copd will hae an intermediated sort of cough every now and agian, once they have it , they have it and its a sort of condition that can worse as the horse grows older when mild they have an increase in the respirtory rate and have trouble with execise some horses that have it more severe can cough up a yellow mucus , the respirtory rate shoots up to about 20breathsa minute and then the horse will make a heave line on his lower stomach this is the hevae line----as he breathes you will see this line being very apparent as breaths in and out , he might look dull and ill and breathess and depending how bad could be broken winded in which case the horse shoudlnt be in work
    as the diceases takes hold it progresses to taken over his lung compascity
    as let me explain a bt a horses airways are less than a the width of your finger tip and when they have this problem the airways are retricted as they narrow and the horse cant get his normal volume of air
    so if he coughs stop working

    ossy is now retired and has been for 4yrs hes aged 20 now and
    due to his health and conditions he has high maintenance of care

    copd can be cuased via worms whereby parasites ahve got into the body and have either not been treated or have be over wormed ie daily worming or not worming to the weight fo the horse or cycle of the worms

    in ossy case he had this since i got him at 4mths old he was rescue horse that was smoothered in dirt and crap which took 4 days to clean he was riddle with lice and had rainscold , i wormed him on a kind wormer
    and put him out with my shetland ,, he then had problems as he was lsoing his intestines out of his bum, vet were called and ssaid he ha 20% chance of living - they couldnt operate as nmore than likely would have died as he was that skinny so they worked on him day and night and managed to save him the worms miigrated through his tiny body to up and behinf the eye to cause moonblindnes at the age of 2yrs at the age 4 he then got copd which is all related to his time beofre i had him

    as the worms had done the damaged - over the years we have controlled all his problems and hes been a wonderful and had a full sj carreer and never lsot any of his classes as hes got older his problems are now more aggressive so the management has to be higher than what it was
    and i know soon i will have to have pts as he now constrating on breathing rather than eating as its hot dry and dusty

    these horses are hard keepers and you need a vet - not a home at herbs job as have try to explain its gets worse as they get older
    its airways and lungs and the mussles with those airways that block the airway as they are sensitive to atigens and the enivroment itself



  6. #6
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    and no herbs actually help it and before callabus jumps in and say this and that as shes quoting sites that i gave her on another topic a few weeks back
    Good grief GLS -- you think I gave those links cause you gave them to ME? I have Hillary Page Self's book and purchased it YEARS ago -- I've also bought herbal blends from both of those companies over the last 10 years or so. Believe me, I didn't post them because of you. I posted because they are reputable companies, their products can be trusted and the provide good service.
    --Gwen <><
    "Treat others as you want to be treated and be the change you want to see in the world."
    http://www.thepenzancehorse.com



  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by caballus View Post
    Good grief GLS -- you think I gave those links cause you gave them to ME? I have Hillary Page Self's book and purchased it YEARS ago -- I've also bought herbal blends from both of those companies over the last 10 years or so. Believe me, I didn't post them because of you. I posted because they are reputable companies, their products can be trusted and the provide good service.
    dont even go there -



  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by goeslikestink View Post
    dont even go there -
    Go where? What the he** are you talking about? You make no sense.
    --Gwen <><
    "Treat others as you want to be treated and be the change you want to see in the world."
    http://www.thepenzancehorse.com



  9. #9
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    Herbal did not work for my horse. One of the most popular is a combination of msm and spirulina. We've just started on allergy shots, but my horse has improved significantly with ventipulmin, tri-hist, msm/spirulina, dutch doors on stall for improved ventilation.



  10. #10
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    and of course the horses that have gut issues or operation now there are kinder feeds avialble for the stomach, as with copd then ther are feeds out there that have added herbs like mint and garlic etc to help the resprotory track

    the herbs that are on offer via wendals or hilton can be additive into your feed stuffs and you may think they might help well they do makes rather a nice smell - so inviting to eat haha but doesnt actually make any difference to the horse
    Can't have it both ways GLS ... in the top paragraph you say there are feeds out there that have added herbs like mint and garlic to help the respiratory tract then the second paragraph you say they don't actually make any difference to the horse. So, which is it?

    And if you know both Wendal herb people and Hilton herb people then you know that have herbal blends specifically for respiratory issues.

    Mint is not for respiratory issues; Mint is to help the digestive system.

    Garlic is a good one, though, for respiratory issues as it is an expectorant as well as an antibiotic so will help get the excess mucous expelled as well as help to kill of any infection that might be present.

    Marshmallow is also an expectorant and will help to soothe irritated bronchial tubes.

    Boneset is an expectorant and also an immuno-stimulatory to help the immune system.

    Buckwheat, Plantain (both broadleaf and narrow) are antihistimines and will help deter allergies that might be contributory to setting off the heaves/COPD.

    Homeopathy and Acupuncture can also be helpful.

    And again, both Wendal and Hilton Herbs have useful blends. I'm sure if you were to email either one you'd be able to find someone to talk with you and help you.
    --Gwen <><
    "Treat others as you want to be treated and be the change you want to see in the world."
    http://www.thepenzancehorse.com



  11. #11
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    I have an old man boarder who I help maintain. He gets 24/7 turnout which helps tremendously. Last year, he was on Trihist, Dex when he was bad, and soaked hay. We find he is much worse in the summer and began a plan of attack last fall. This year he is drug and wet hay free. Our management plan is as follows:

    - A few cups of soaked beet pulp/alfalfa cubes twice a day to mix supplements and little grain in

    - He is on SmartBreathe year round

    - APF (2 ml a day on a cookie)

    - Flax seed (about 4 oz.)

    - 10,000 mg MSM

    He is maintains and breaths well on this combo. On the hot and humid days (in the 90s) I give him about 1/2 oz. Air Power by Finish Line at breakfast and he does fine all day. That is all natural.

    I think for these guys, it's all trial and error. I assume as he gets older (he's 23 now) we will have to go back to drugs, but so far we got him off them. He has been drug free for almost a year.
    Gone gaited....



  12. #12
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    I've had great success with Spirulina. I order it from www.herbalcom.com.

    One tablespoon twice per day during flare-ups. Maintenance dosage is 1 tablespoon per day.

    Best of luck.



  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmalbone View Post
    Herbal did not work for my horse. One of the most popular is a combination of msm and spirulina. We've just started on allergy shots, but my horse has improved significantly with ventipulmin, tri-hist, msm/spirulina, dutch doors on stall for improved ventilation.
    good point about ventalation



  14. #14
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    [QUOTE=caballus;5012859]Can't have it both ways GLS ... in the top paragraph you say there are feeds out there that have added herbs like mint and garlic to help the respiratory tract then the second paragraph you say they don't actually make any difference to the horse. So, which is it?

    And if you know both Wendal herb people and Hilton herb people then you know that have herbal blends specifically for respiratory issues.

    Mint is not for respiratory issues; Mint is to help the digestive system.


    i havent a problem with herbal companies
    i jsut have a problem with some that quotes cuts and paste other peoples stuff without fully understanding the the products

    as it happens i mention garlic and mint, havent got a problem useing the herbs that i know might aid the horse but ther is a but to how severe a horses airways have been reduced in size due to copd

    as its the mussles that lay inside the airways that get obstuctive

    having own and have a horse thats has this condition i know full well what works and what doesnt work for him

    and like i said there are other things you can do to improve his enviroment of where he lives

    read here this is from one of my local vetinary groups
    http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&sou...U8GUblRFdsAnRQ



  15. #15
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    i havent a problem with herbal companies
    i jsut have a problem with some that quotes cuts and paste other peoples stuff without fully understanding the the products
    I have no idea about what you're speaking, GLS ... but, whatever.

    as it happens i mention garlic and mint, havent got a problem useing the herbs that i know might aid the horse but ther is a but to how severe a horses airways have been reduced in size due to copd
    as its the mussles that lay inside the airways that get obstuctive

    having own and have a horse thats has this condition i know full well what works and what doesnt work for him
    Absolutely agree -- each horse is different. My QH was severely COPD -- hemorraging from bronchials AND lungs. What worked for him may not work for others. It depends on the horse. He lived to be 32 years old, BTW, and was a schooling horse for the 16 years that he was with me.

    Another horse came in here on an emergency basis for COPD related to severe toxicity and allergies. She was on heavy duty prednisone (the lessee thought more was better and this horse was in BAD shape. Lessor took her back and brought her here for rehab.) ... we reduced the pred over a 3 week period of time, supplemented with homeopathy and herbs. She was home (her owner's home) in 3 weeks time and under saddle again in a month's time. BUT -- her COPD has to be managed carefully and part of that management is keeping her off grass, entirely, as she is allergic to the type of grass and mold that grows in her pasture grass. She also has other allergies that need to be managed. But, as far as I know, last month she made a 3000 mile trip by airline from MA to CA in fine shape and is now exploring desert territory without any issues. I've worked with others as well, each needing a bit different protocol than the other according to the individual need.
    and like i said there are other things you can do to improve his enviroment of where he lives
    Agree 100%, GLS. With that we have no disagreements.

    read here this is from one of my local vetinary groups
    http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&sou...U8GUblRFdsAnRQ
    Good stuff.

    But herbs and homeopathy can be used WITH environmental changes and with veterinary care. In the case of my QH the pred, the shots, the ventolin, the Albuterol, the Trihist -- they relieved the heaves *somewhat* but it was the change in his environment (from SW FL humidity/heat to New England and turnout 24/7) as well as the addition of complementary herbs and fresh foods that helped him. In season I was able to pick fresh plantain and feed that to him. That worked better for him than ANY of the other treatments. During the winter I used the dried blends. I did not use homeopathy w/him as I was not familiar with it at the time. With the little mare that came in here she was on a blend right from the start, plus individualized homeopathic treatment plus managed turnout -- 24/7 in the grass pasture here (no problems with my grass for her.) As I said she recovered just fine. She was also on other supplements as advised by her vet.

    Your comments that herbs WON'T HELP was wrong. They can and do help for most horses. Are they to be used exclusively? Or JUST with homeopathics? or can they be used with conventional meds? I say WITH conventional meds if indicated. it depends.
    --Gwen <><
    "Treat others as you want to be treated and be the change you want to see in the world."
    http://www.thepenzancehorse.com



  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by caballus View Post
    I have no idea about what you're speaking, GLS ... but, whatever.

    Absolutely agree -- each horse is different. My QH was severely COPD -- hemorraging from bronchials AND lungs. What worked for him may not work for others. It depends on the horse. He lived to be 32 years old, BTW, and was a schooling horse for the 16 years that he was with me.

    Another horse came in here on an emergency basis for COPD related to severe toxicity and allergies. She was on heavy duty prednisone (the lessee thought more was better and this horse was in BAD shape. Lessor took her back and brought her here for rehab.) ... we reduced the pred over a 3 week period of time, supplemented with homeopathy and herbs. She was home (her owner's home) in 3 weeks time and under saddle again in a month's time. BUT -- her COPD has to be managed carefully and part of that management is keeping her off grass, entirely, as she is allergic to the type of grass and mold that grows in her pasture grass. She also has other allergies that need to be managed. But, as far as I know, last month she made a 3000 mile trip by airline from MA to CA in fine shape and is now exploring desert territory without any issues. I've worked with others as well, each needing a bit different protocol than the other according to the individual need.
    Agree 100%, GLS. With that we have no disagreements.

    Good stuff.

    But herbs and homeopathy can be used WITH environmental changes and with veterinary care. In the case of my QH the pred, the shots, the ventolin, the Albuterol, the Trihist -- they relieved the heaves *somewhat* but it was the change in his environment (from SW FL humidity/heat to New England and turnout 24/7) as well as the addition of complementary herbs and fresh foods that helped him. In season I was able to pick fresh plantain and feed that to him. That worked better for him than ANY of the other treatments. During the winter I used the dried blends. I did not use homeopathy w/him as I was not familiar with it at the time. With the little mare that came in here she was on a blend right from the start, plus individualized homeopathic treatment plus managed turnout -- 24/7 in the grass pasture here (no problems with my grass for her.) As I said she recovered just fine. She was also on other supplements as advised by her vet.

    Your comments that herbs WON'T HELP was wrong. They can and do help for most horses. Are they to be used exclusively? Or JUST with homeopathics? or can they be used with conventional meds? I say WITH conventional meds if indicated. it depends.
    as always it depends on the hrose in question but
    one would advise calling vet as soon as you think you have copd etc
    and then any other things that you want to add then ask the vet for his guidance as it important to the horse in question as the vets are the ones treating it and lst thing you want to do is upset or make things worse if any such additives disagree with the horse or the medicines given

    always run things past your vet in the 1st instance if any medication given
    as thse horses are effected via the evrioment and antigens what you dont to do is give the hrose extra problems if your unsure of what the ingrediants are and what they do



  17. #17
    melk83 Guest

    Smile Re: Steaming Hay

    Have you tried steaming ur hay to get rid of the moulds, spores and dust in it? We did and our COPD horse is 10000 times better. We feed it to all the other horses in the yard as it's clearly so good for them. We got a Happy Horse steamer which is cheaper than the others we looked at but, works brilliantly. I can't recommend it highly enough. Hope your horse gets better



  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by melk83 View Post
    Have you tried steaming ur hay to get rid of the moulds, spores and dust in it? We did and our COPD horse is 10000 times better. We feed it to all the other horses in the yard as it's clearly so good for them. We got a Happy Horse steamer which is cheaper than the others we looked at but, works brilliantly. I can't recommend it highly enough. Hope your horse gets better
    echo this it helps to - but wouldnt feed any thing that was mouldy even to healther horses i would chuck it



  19. #19
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    My heaves mare gets Dex or Ventipulmin (or both in the case of a bad attack).

    I tried an herbal "Mo Lung" which seemed to help some in the spring. Once the heat and sweltering humidity of the south sets in, it didn't do anything. Plus she decided this year that she wasn't going to eat Mo Lung any more.

    She's out 24/7. I keep her stalled as little as possible. All her feed is wet. Hay gets soaked.

    Lately it's so hot and steamy, she's really having it tough. And next week's weather looks just as bad.



  20. #20
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    To the OP, my 27 yo mare is on dex all summer. Hers is definitely heat exacerbated. I don't do herbals but I have had great luck controlling things the rest of the year using Actiflex Senior available locally at THS. This is the best and most cost effective way I've found of getting large doses of Ester C and MSM in her, both of which are recommended for equine COPD.
    'Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.'
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