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  1. #1
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    Default Long shot....trying to ID a half Trak

    Born in 1992, sold at a dispersal auction in 1993.

    Anyone have any ideas?
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.



  2. #2
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    Default

    How do you know she's a half Trakehener? If she has papers, the breeder will be on the papers. If she doesn't have papers then again, how do you know she's a half Trakehner?

    The ATA office are immensely helpful with this sort of thing.



  3. #3
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    Default

    lol...I know the horse world is small, but you have to give us a little more info. Color, markings, what auction was the horse sold at, mare, stallion or gelding, bloodlines, etc., etc.
    www.DaventryEquestrian.com
    Home of Oldenburg & RPSI approved pony stallions Daventry's Power Play & Goldhills Brandysnap
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  4. #4
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    Default

    And which half was TK? (dam or sire)

    If it is the sire that was TK I have personally found that the SO is much better than the office on the older breedings on who the dam might be that was bred. This is because most of the SOs (not all but most) keep such good records of who they breed their stallion to that if you can narrow it down to a year they can pretty much figure out who the mare was and THEN the office is good on figuring out which foal it was.

    If you get someone REALLY organized you find out all kinds of info!
    Emerald Acres standing the ATA Approved Stallion, Tatendrang. Visit us at our Facebook Farm Page as well!



  5. #5
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stoicfish View Post
    Seriously?

    If someone has an answer, I am going to very impressed.
    I would be also, as well as very pleased, but the Trak breed is relatively limited in numbers....it's not like I'm trying to ID a quarter horse. And most people on COTH are helpful and friendly...I've been contacted by one person who knew the mare, her daughter Sophie as a foal and another who has Sophie's full brother.

    The sire is Falke. The mare in question is gray, named Beeza, born in '92, sold at a dispersal auction in '93. Her dam is supposedly a Connemara named Bitters.
    I have contacted the person who owned Falke in '91, the ATA and the auction company PAS, who ran most of the horse auctions in the area, all to no avail.
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.



  6. #6
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    Default

    What specifically are you trying to find out? You have the info on the dam, sire, etc... The appropriate registeries should be able to tell you who the last people that owned them were (assuming that the mare was registered). If you find the dam's last owner you would have the info on who the filly was sold to... I guess I'm confused as to what you are trying to find out. Really vague question. The auction company should have record of who sold the horse and who they sold it to...

    I can understand not wanting to post some things publically but really you have to ask the question to get the answer.
    Emerald Acres standing the ATA Approved Stallion, Tatendrang. Visit us at our Facebook Farm Page as well!



  7. #7
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    Beeza evidently had at least 3 owners....I know the last two, but not the one who presumably should have registered her. Neither of the two have any info on her

    She has produced some very nice Irish Sport Horses when bred to RID's but if I could prove she was by Falke I would consider breeding her to a Trakehner or possibly Silver Twist if he is still standing .

    However, I just might stick with the IDHS
    Last edited by carolprudm; Jul. 29, 2010 at 01:27 PM.
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.



  8. #8
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    Default

    If Falke has DNA on file, then you can do a DNA test, no? I'm almost certain the ATA can help with that.

    So you are looking for her breeder and possibly for who was standing Falke in 1992/3? The ATA should be able to help with the SO - and hope the SO kept records of who semen was shipped to? Or did they ship semen then? If Live Cover, should be a bit easier to remember?



  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by carolprudm View Post
    Beeza evidently had at least 3 owners....I know the last two, but not the one who presumably should have registered her. Neither of the two have any info on her

    She has produced some very nice Irish Sport Horses when bred to RID's but if I could prove she was by Falke I would consider breeding her to a Trakehner or possibly Silver Twist if he is still standing .

    However, given some of the response here I just might stick with the IDHS
    This actually has given more information than your other posts. Your first post is just that you are trying to ID a half TK that was sold at an auction in 1993 (dispersal sale rather). No info on what you are looking for other than ID, didn't know it was a mare even until the next post. Then we find out that you are looking for a mare's info that is by Falke and out of a Conn mare. OK, so what OTHER info are you looking for? You know the sire, you sound like you know the dam, so you can look up any info regarding bloodlines etc. I presumed you are looking for info on the owners. So now you state that you know she has had 3 owners - presumably the breeder, 2 people beofre you? and now you. sounds like you are tryining to track down info on the breeder? OK... I go back to my original statement of check with the CONN registery - if the dam was registered and the dam is a Conn, see if they have the dam's owner at the time - presumably that person would have been the one to breed your mare?

    Now, if you are trying to get your mare registered, I would go with the following. Contact the office, tell them you have a half breed TK mare that is older. By the stalliion Falke. You don't have the DNA or the breed cert. You want to register D book TK. You will prob have to get up with Falke's last owner to see if they happent to have a breed cert or if they had him on the stallion report as having bred a Conn mare that particular year.

    The OTHER alternative - the mare is at best a D book mare (unless she was really out of a TK mare and no one knew it). If you breed her to an approved ATA stallion you are still only going to get D book papers so you don't "have" to register her. Frankly that would be the cheaper route to go.

    Sorry if you thought any of the above responses were snotty or unhelpful but at least in my case it was confusing to know what you were looking for specifically and needed more info.
    Emerald Acres standing the ATA Approved Stallion, Tatendrang. Visit us at our Facebook Farm Page as well!



  10. #10
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    Default

    ACPS has no record of a mare named "Bitters" I suspect it's a nickname

    I have had no response from the ATA.

    Falke's owner at the time of breeding has said she would try to locate the records but hasn't gotten back to me.

    I have contacted PAS to see if they had any record of a dispersal auction in 1993....they do many of the auctions around here....but they haven't gotten back to me.

    The person I got Beeza from has no info.

    The person who bought Beeza at the auction and sold her to the person above has no info.
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.



  11. #11
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    Default

    I still go back to my response of if you are just thinking of breeding this mare to an ATA stallion and want papers on the resulting foal the most that the foal is elig for regardless of the dam's registration status is D book. I agree that it would be NICE to have your mare registered etc, but given the circumstances the best course of action at this stage in the game is to breed your mare and register the foal D book (which even if the mare is registered is still all the resulting foal would get). Saves you HUNDREDS of dollars doing this, plus the aggravation of trying to track down the old sale papers and so forth.

    I say this with regards to the mare's registration papers because she is half Conn so not possible in any way shape or form for her to get a higher set of papers herself (which is at this point you will be spending more than $500 on her papers, DNA, etc and the time of tracking it all down). Any foal by any TK stallion would still be ineligible to be in a higher book and could not be presented for breeding approvals.

    Sorry that the others involved have been so hard to get up with - been there done it got the T shirt so know how you feel.
    Emerald Acres standing the ATA Approved Stallion, Tatendrang. Visit us at our Facebook Farm Page as well!



  12. #12
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    Default

    Was one of the previous owners Phillip Buckler? He owned a stallion by Falke, and I believe Causeway Farm's dispersal sale was around that time? Total shot in the dark...



  13. #13
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    Thanks, I'll probably stick with the IDHSNA since her foals by an RID can be inspected Irish Draught Sport Horse.
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.



  14. #14
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by carolprudm View Post
    I would be also, as well as very pleased, but the Trak breed is relatively limited in numbers....it's not like I'm trying to ID a quarter horse. And most people on COTH are helpful and friendly...I've been contacted by one person who knew the mare, her daughter Sophie as a foal and another who has Sophie's full brother.

    The sire is Falke. The mare in question is gray, named Beeza, born in '92, sold at a dispersal auction in '93. Her dam is supposedly a Connemara named Bitters.
    I have contacted the person who owned Falke in '91, the ATA and the auction company PAS, who ran most of the horse auctions in the area, all to no avail.
    Falke was approved OLD/NA ISR. You might try contacting them as well; they may be able to help you. I believe at the time period you are referencing his owner was filing reports with that registry, not the ATA.
    Worth a shot anyway.

    Also, Holly Jeanne who posts on this board has a Falke daughter bred by his last owner. She worked with the ATA to get her registered - you might try PM-ing her - might be able to give you some information.

    Sue
    Last edited by SueL; Jul. 30, 2010 at 01:09 AM. Reason: add information
    "Horsemanship is not merely a matter of bodily skills, but is based on scholarship and, therefore, is a matter of the mind and intellect." Charles de Kunffy

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  15. #15
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    Default You really didn't have to reply you know....

    Quote Originally Posted by stoicfish View Post
    Your next post gave much, much more info so the very helpful people here that are not "Men Who Stare at Goats Members" can help you out.
    http://www.americantrakehner.com/Res...?ID=OSB-E-S213

    .
    In general an open ended question, "What do you think about????"
    often gets more useful information than "Do you think A or B?"


    For example "I have an unregistered small and long backed mare. Who should I breed her to to produce a jumper?"
    will probably get more helpful responses than "I have a small long backed mare. Should I breed her to Silver Twist or O'Leary's Irish Diamond to produce a jumper?"

    FWIW, of the two I will probably go with OLID
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.



  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by SueL View Post
    Falke was approved OLD/NA ISR. You might try contacting them as well; they may be able to help you. I believe at the time period you are referencing his owner was filing reports with that registry, not the ATA.
    Worth a shot anyway.

    Also, Holly Jeanne who posts on this board has a Falke daughter bred by his last owner. She worked with the ATA to get her registered - you might try PM-ing her - might be able to give you some information.

    Sue
    Thank you for that bit of info. I will contact OLD NA

    I have been contacted by a person with a chestnut mare by Falke though I can't recall her name ATM
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.



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