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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug. 18, 2006
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    73

    Default horse recording rant

    So over the past month I have seen TWO of the horses I bred and sold showing in USEF recognized shows in recognized divisions under new names. I sold BOTH these horses with lifetime recording numbers AND registry papers. When I look up their horse recording information, their names are different and all breeding information (sire, dam, breeder) is listed as unknown. One KWPN horse is even listed as "german bred" - WTF. I contacted USEF and never receive a reply or explanation on how this happens. When is USEF going to require microchipping and HONEST registration of horses with random checking just like they do the drug tests?????????? This country's governing body is absolutely in the trainer's pockets who don't give a damn. RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr. 29, 2005
    Location
    Paris, Kentucky
    Posts
    3,205

    Default

    It doesn't affect them, so they don't care.
    Holly
    www.ironhorsefrm.com
    Oldenburg foals and young prospects
    LIKE us on Facebook!



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep. 6, 2003
    Location
    WA, Land of the damp Thongpend
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    2,451

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 4ponies View Post
    So over the past month I have seen TWO of the horses I bred and sold showing in USEF recognized shows in recognized divisions under new names. I sold BOTH these horses with lifetime recording numbers AND registry papers. When I look up their horse recording information, their names are different and all breeding information (sire, dam, breeder) is listed as unknown. One KWPN horse is even listed as "german bred" - WTF. I contacted USEF and never receive a reply or explanation on how this happens. When is USEF going to require microchipping and HONEST registration of horses with random checking just like they do the drug tests?????????? This country's governing body is absolutely in the trainer's pockets who don't give a damn. RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
    If the horses were already recorded the people they were sold to did not transfer the recording, and pay to change the names. Are the ID numbers different than the ones you received when you recorded them?

    The USEF is does not want people doing that, but there are fees involved with transferring and changing a horses name. So it is not the USEF that caused the issue it is the people not following the rules and just doing what they want. The USEF does want horses to only be recorded once and maintain that number throughout their life.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug. 12, 2001
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    Trailer Trash Ammy!
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    19,520

    Default

    Isn't there a USEF rule that prohibits the new owner re-recording a lifetime-recorded horse?
    "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug. 18, 2006
    Posts
    73

    Default

    The USEF does want horses recorded for their lifetime and yes, it is ultimately the new owners responsibility but the USEF provides NO IMPETUS to record the horse correctly nor any recourse for a horse re-recorded by another owner or re-recorded incorrectly. People can get a new number every year, with a new name, a new horse age, a blank record - anything they want. Nobody will get in trouble unless someone causes a fuss and files a protest. We are paying a buttload of money to the gov body and they fail constantly to address the horse recording problem - mainly because breeders are not important to them and as WA said - it doesn't effect them. Its such a farce that they require the number - make people pay for the recording number then do NOTHING to require that the number AND associated information follows that horse. People will do whatever thy want unless they are required to do it correctly - that is the job of the USEF.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb. 5, 2007
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    639

    Default

    On another note giving a horse a new name and reg # also helps unscrupulous owners/trainers insure a horse that may have had a problem in the past.
    I think microchips are a good idea allround to identify who they really are.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb. 9, 2005
    Location
    Upper Midwest
    Posts
    6,955

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    Why--are you saying a horse in the greens should really be green?

    Anyone have any ideas about actual steps that can be taken? It IS ridiculous.
    DIY Journey of Remodeling the Farmette: http://weownblackacre.blogspot.com/



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun. 1, 2005
    Location
    Floral City , Fl.
    Posts
    4,323

    Default

    I call it re-cycling and it makes me crazy.
    Sandy
    www.sugarbrook.com
    hunter/jumper ponies



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar. 28, 2001
    Location
    Aiken, SC
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    2,689

    Default

    The cost of doing it the right way, via a transfer can exceed the cost of an annual recording. In particular if you wish to change the name.

    There is a free HID available so it's much simpler to get a HID than pay any of the transfer of owner or name change fees.

    Use of microchips to id a horse at a show is not practical for many reasons.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb. 5, 2007
    Location
    FL
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    639

    Default

    The microchip would not be for every show but it could be random like drug testing and also as a verification for Insurance purposes etc.

    Sure helped my mare get positive ID after she and a bunch of other mares were essentially given up to a rescue. She is European bred (TB) and even though markings are noted on the reg papers its a lot easier and quicker to ID them when they have a chip . They had sort through 40+ horses to see which papers belonged to whom.

    It is also useful tool when check horses going thru sales that may have been stolen.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan. 13, 2003
    Posts
    6,863

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    4 PONIES -


    Don't call the USEF - write a letter to Ken Ball (send it Certified , return receipt requested, with copies of registration papers on the horse and the lifetime # information. Tell him that the horse is now showing under a different name with incomplete information and demand that the information be updated to be complete. Tell him this is affecting your ranking in the Breeder Awards.

    Be insistent about this! Also send it again by fax.
    Summit Sporthorses Ltd. Inc.
    "Breeding Competition Partners & Lifelong Friends"



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar. 28, 2001
    Location
    Aiken, SC
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    2,689

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cottagefarm View Post
    The microchip would not be for every show but it could be random like drug testing and also as a verification for Insurance purposes etc.
    On another thread the possibility of doing an ID check when a horse was selected for drug tested was raised as a possble way to do random checks. That seemed reasonable.

    However, a chip can be removed and another one inserted. So it's not an infallible method of ID.

    Many people ( me included ) will not microchip for several reasons.

    no standard RF
    there may be health hazards
    can be removed
    no national database

    The JC has their own method for ID'ing horses. Most times it works well.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun. 14, 2007
    Location
    Sultan WA
    Posts
    909

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ise@ssl View Post
    4 PONIES -


    Don't call the USEF - write a letter to Ken Ball (send it Certified , return receipt requested, with copies of registration papers on the horse and the lifetime # information. Tell him that the horse is now showing under a different name with incomplete information and demand that the information be updated to be complete. Tell him this is affecting your ranking in the Breeder Awards.

    Be insistent about this! Also send it again by fax.
    Do you think that would really work?

    Seriously. I very much wish I knew who the first filly (now 7) of our senior mare was sold to, as the trainer who sold her last was definitely showing her under a new HID - different name, sans pedigree, and under his ownership. She was then sold on and has disappeared. If I find her, I'll definitely want to follow up on this and be sure the new owners know just what they have! She's a super mare, and without her papers I am so afraid she will just be jumped into the ground and thrown away.
    Homesick Angels Farm
    breeders of champion Irish Draught Sporthorses
    standing Manu Forti's Touch Down RID
    www.IrishHuntersandJumpers.com



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul. 18, 2001
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    Here and there
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    Default

    I know of a gelding by Absolut' that had a lifetime recording. He was sold and the new owners sent in the paperwork to do a lifetime recording under the same name. The horse now has 2 life recordings because no one at USEF caught it.

    I fixed what felt like a million mistakes while I was there - because I cared that the information was correct. It's too much of an uphill battle because the staff is more hired for their data input skills than their horse knowledge.
    Not all who wander are lost.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr. 4, 2006
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    An American Living In Ireland
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    5,710

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PineTreeFarm View Post
    On another thread the possibility of doing an ID check when a horse was selected for drug tested was raised as a possble way to do random checks. That seemed reasonable.

    However, a chip can be removed and another one inserted. So it's not an infallible method of ID.

    Many people ( me included ) will not microchip for several reasons.

    no standard RF
    there may be health hazards
    can be removed
    no national database

    The JC has their own method for ID'ing horses. Most times it works well.
    I agree with the no standard RF and no national database but the other 2 points are wrong. Microchips are not easily removed. Any attempt to do so will leave a mark for life as you will have to do a little digging and rooting to get it out. Really that's not going to be a viable option so you can change the name of a horse or pass a made horse off of a greenie. As for the health hazards please enlighten me to these health hazards. I always hear about these health problems in places where they don't microchip. If there were health risks I doubt the racing world over here would be "hoping" things go ok when microchipping their potential million dollar yearlings. Honestly, these are not viable reasons why microchips do not work.

    Instead of making arguments for why it won't work, make reasons for why it will work. Look at what has been done an try and adopt the process. No standard wand, well that needs to be dealt with. If a vet comes to my farm and needs to check my horses ID, the TB's, the Dutch Warmblood, and the ISH's will all be readable with the same wand. All completely different registries. No national database, well one has to be started. Yeah it's going to be a bumpy road but it once it's up and running, it should get easier.

    Terri
    COTH, keeping popcorn growers in business for years.

    "I need your grace to remind me to find my own." Snow Patrol-Chasing Cars. This line reminds me why I have horses.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan. 28, 2002
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    5,144

    Default

    I have one right now that I am devastated over. In the pony hunter and Welsh world, having your farm prefix in front of your pony's name means everything to a breeder. I sold one down to the States and made the mistake of not getting a USEF number for the pony at the time, as they didn't have the cheap fee back then, if I remember correctly. Anyways, the pony is now ready to show in the Greens this year and the new owners have completely deleted my prefix off of the pony and put their own prefix on the pony's name. We are devastated...he was my first Welsh Pony foal
    www.DaventryEquestrian.com
    Home of Oldenburg, Westphalian & RPSI approved pony stallion Goldhills Brandysnap
    Also home to Daventry Equine Appraisals & Equine Expert Witness www.EquineAppraisers.com



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct. 2, 1999
    Location
    Mendocino County, CA: Turkey Vulture HQ
    Posts
    17,515

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PineTreeFarm View Post
    The cost of doing it the right way, via a transfer can exceed the cost of an annual recording. In particular if you wish to change the name.

    There is a free HID available so it's much simpler to get a HID than pay any of the transfer of owner or name change fees.

    Use of microchips to id a horse at a show is not practical for many reasons.
    I think this is just ridiculous. If you pay for a life recording, a transfer should be free or nominal - like $10. Even if it's an annual recording - those fees are very high, and it shouldn't be so hard to just factor in the transfers in that price.
    If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan. 13, 2003
    Posts
    6,863

    Default

    Well Poltroon
    The Rocket Scientists at the USEF couldn't figure out that if they make the TRANSFER FEE more than New Non-Lifetime Number fee - then new owners would NOT pay for a transfer.

    We tell ALL of the people buying our horses/ponies WE WILL REIMBURSE THE TRANSFER FEE TO THEM as long as the information is complete and unchanged except for Owner. It's working.
    Summit Sporthorses Ltd. Inc.
    "Breeding Competition Partners & Lifelong Friends"



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jun. 14, 2007
    Location
    Sultan WA
    Posts
    909

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ise@ssl View Post
    Well Poltroon
    The Rocket Scientists at the USEF couldn't figure out that if they make the TRANSFER FEE more than New Non-Lifetime Number fee - then new owners would NOT pay for a transfer.

    We tell ALL of the people buying our horses/ponies WE WILL REIMBURSE THE TRANSFER FEE TO THEM as long as the information is complete and unchanged except for Owner. It's working.
    I think that sounds like a great way to do it! and I will take that tack from her eon out.

    It would not have helped in the case of our filly, though, as she was sold (with papers and lifetime numbers for USEF and USDF) to first buyer. THEN came back through trainer, was showed under his name with NEW USEF number and no pedigree, and he sold her on after that. So, I'm left with hoping she surfaces - unique markings and all of that, so I will know it's the right horse if I find her.

    Thanks for the good idea for future sales.
    Homesick Angels Farm
    breeders of champion Irish Draught Sporthorses
    standing Manu Forti's Touch Down RID
    www.IrishHuntersandJumpers.com



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Mar. 17, 2006
    Location
    North Central Florida
    Posts
    1,382

    Default

    We own a mare that is currently in Holland and has been bred there. The farmer at the farm where she is being kept included microchipping her on our invoice in most apologetic terms, saying that there would be hell to pay with his government were she not microchipped while on Dutch territory. If memory serves, the item was $35.

    Why oh why, can't we get this enacted here, through USEF or USDA? I realize that USDA is a longshot.

    I agree with Cottage Farm having participated in that rescue as well. Without those microchips, the fate and,indeed, the future now of these mares- who are gems in terms of pedigree- would be very different. The microchips give registries grounds for proceeding to DNA tests on progeny, thereby facilitating registration with some registries.
    Last edited by Sakura Hill Farm; Jul. 15, 2010 at 02:10 PM.
    Sakura Hill Farm
    Now on Facebook

    Young and developing horses for A-circuit jumper and hunter rings.



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