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  1. #1
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    Default FEC/New De-worming Protocol..see the progression post#150

    350 eggs per gram was the results. Would you start with Ivermectin to see if it will work or go right to Quest or a Power Pack? Just curious as to consensus.... Horse will be retested 3 weeks after de-worming to see what worked.
    Last edited by Dune; Jan. 19, 2011 at 02:05 PM.



  2. #2
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    What was his previous protocol?
    "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
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    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.



  3. #3
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    EqT beat me.

    Dammit. It's the middle of the afternoon, no fair.
    InnisFailte Pinto Sporthorses & Coloured Cobs
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Bits are like cats, what's one more? (Petstorejunkie)



  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by pintopiaffe View Post
    EqT beat me.

    Dammit. It's the middle of the afternoon, no fair.

    LOL 94 degrees here after riding this am and cleaning a huge paddock yesterday in the same heat... I'm cooling off and wondering what Dune dewormed this horse with for the last six months or so..

    On a more personal note I am curious as to what we are going to start seeing now that that everyone is changing their deworming protocols...
    "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
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    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.



  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by EqTrainer View Post
    LOL 94 degrees here after riding this am and cleaning a huge paddock yesterday in the same heat... I'm cooling off and wondering what Dune dewormed this horse with for the last six months or so..

    On a more personal note I am curious as to what we are going to start seeing now that that everyone is changing their deworming protocols...
    Pffft, you wimp, it was over 100 here and I'm not complain'. OK, actually I am. Well, here's the thing: Previous trainer said the horse was regularly wormed but when pressed for the last one used, she never answered. I should've included that in my first post but I was dashing out the door. So...whaddya all think? I have my opinion but am curious what others would do........ I, too, am VERY interested in how folks will handle all this, I have to say though that I'm making everyones eyes glaze over at my barn. NO ONE is talking about this....



  6. #6
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    Default

    What does your vet say?



  7. #7
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    Since I'm not one to call the vet for every little thing, I'd probably just hit him with ivermectin.



  8. #8
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    Um... yeah. Other than a discussion about latest trends & science, if *I* were to call my vet to ask what anthelmintic to use? He'd probably fire me.

    Now, if I were to call and say "Hay, Dr. D, I used xyz for the last deworming, and ABC the one before, and we're still showing strongyles... which do you prefer?"

    That's a little different. Still, other than severely debilitated or some other *special* issue, deworming to me is a management issue, not a vet one.

    If I did not KNOW what the last few dewormers were, I would assume either a) just a stage of strongyles that was encysted last deworming, and showing up now...

    or b) resistant critters.

    And honestly, *ME*, I would do the powerpack first, but *only* because I lost a horse to Quest. If I were anyone else BUT me, I think it would be probably an even 50-50, coin toss between the two.

    Pocketbook-wise, if I'm HONEST, (vs. PTSD) it makes more sense to do Quest then fecal again. That would actually tell you more about whether you are dealing with resistance vs. encysted. Quest gets all but one stage encysteds, but is actually in the same *class* as Ivermec.

    ME--I'd do a powerpack. I have never, ever, in 20+ years of doing PPs (I was doing them before they were even *called* that!) had a negative reaction to a PP. I lost a horse to Quest. So that is JUST ME.

    But, *honestly?* If $$ is an issue? I'd do the Quest, re-fecal, and see where we stood.

    <shrugs>

    EqT?

    (BTW, *I* am just cranky because it is DARK out and STILL 76 degrees. For a WEEK now they have promised us a break in this CRAP. I haven't felt it yet. <melt> )
    InnisFailte Pinto Sporthorses & Coloured Cobs
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Bits are like cats, what's one more? (Petstorejunkie)



  9. #9
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    I only ask what the vet says because:

    1. I'm assuming the fecal was DONE by a vet.

    2. I'm assuming the existing protocol has not been working, and the vet would be the most knowledgable person to ask about what IS working in that area.

    In a normal situation, a vet consult wouldn't be necessary. But then again, neither would a COTH consult.

    Me, I'd do the Power Pack.



  10. #10
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    Unknown history?

    power pack. Start fresh.
    "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
    ---
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.



  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by EqTrainer View Post

    On a more personal note I am curious as to what we are going to start seeing now that that everyone is changing their deworming protocols...
    Are you?



  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMH View Post
    Are you?
    Oh yes. Particularly since all the studies are only on parasites in the digestive tract.
    "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
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    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.



  13. #13
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    In what way are you changing? I'm pondering doing a Power Pack since mine has a shady deworming history from the fruit loop I bought him from...



  14. #14
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    It almost doesn't matter what the horse was dewormed with previously. 350 is fairly high, probably only going to rise, so treat what you have.

    You CAN do a Power Pack, and just assume you won't kill everything you're seeing, given the resistance of strongyles to fenbendazole, and do Ivermectin (or Equimax) 4 weeks after the last dose, to get the rest of the strongyles as well as tapeworms).

    You could use Quest and kill pretty darn much everything (Q Plus would also get tapes).

    You could use Equimax and kill all but the encysteds, kill tapeworms, and do a Power Pack 8 weeks later.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by EqTrainer View Post
    Oh yes. Particularly since all the studies are only on parasites in the digestive tract.

    Care to provide any other details?



  16. #16
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    No doubt she's referring to at least neck threadworms. They are not intestinal/GI parasites. They are *supposed* to be killed by ivermectin, and I'm sure they probably are.

    But, managing them that way is predicated on properly treating them from the time the horse is born. Once they get out of control, they can be a real problem, given that adults can live at least 10 years, producing more juveniles all the time.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiffani B View Post
    I only ask what the vet says because:

    1. I'm assuming the fecal was DONE by a vet.

    Yes, fecal was done by a vet at Horseman's laboratory, but not my vet.

    2. I'm assuming the existing protocol has not been working, and the vet would be the most knowledgable person to ask about what IS working in that area.

    Here's the rub: Vet for Horseman's lab is *not* in "my area". I also don't know what the past protocol for this horse was, as the last trainer was not forthcoming. Also, and this is a bit scary, the few vets that I've talked to recently have NO idea about this "new way" of thinking and are actually recommending either 1.) de-worming MORE often or 2.) de-worming based on how the horse "looks"/body condition

    In a normal situation, a vet consult wouldn't be necessary. But then again, neither would a COTH consult.

    See above. This is not so much of a "consult" as comparing notes. As I said at the beginning, I have my thoughts on the matter but was curious to hear from like minded individuals.

    Me, I'd do the Power Pack.

    Any particular reason for that?
    l



  18. #18
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    If you have that high a number of adult stronglyes, there is no doubt you also have encysted strongyles. You can either kill them now (power pack, or moxidectin), or you can wait until they emerge, and let ivermectin kill them. The latter may not be a good idea at all, since given the relatively high adult count, the encysted count may well be high enough that mass emergence could cause problems.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB View Post
    It almost doesn't matter what the horse was dewormed with previously. 350 is fairly high, probably only going to rise, so treat what you have.

    You CAN do a Power Pack, and just assume you won't kill everything you're seeing, given the resistance of strongyles to fenbendazole, and do Ivermectin (or Equimax) 4 weeks after the last dose, to get the rest of the strongyles as well as tapeworms).

    You could use Quest and kill pretty darn much everything (Q Plus would also get tapes).

    You could use Equimax and kill all but the encysteds, kill tapeworms, and do a Power Pack 8 weeks later.
    Thanks, JB, that was a VERY helpful post! Now, when we say PP, are we still talking about the one tube dose for 5 days?....I thought I remembered some folks doing double doses for 5 days and that seemed like



  20. #20
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    A Power Pack is a double dose of fenbendazole for 5 days ina row.

    The Panacur Power Pack comes with 5 tubes which are already double doses for a 1200lb horse. Each tube is the equivalent of 2 regular tubes of Panacur paste (or Safeguard paste. Safeguard also has a Power Dose which is also double-dosed in single tubes).

    So it IS a double dose, by horse weight, but it MAY be a single tube, depending on what form you're using. If your horse is 1100lb or less (err on the side of caution), then a Panacur Power Pack, at 1 tube a day for 5 days, is what you do.

    If you're doing tubes of normal Panacur or Safeguard, then (again, depending on horse weight), yes, you WOULD be using 2 tubes per day for 5 days.

    If you're using liquid fenbendazole, then normal dosing is 2.3mg/100lb body weight, but a double dose is 4.6mg/100lb body weight. Each day. 5 days
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



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