[Bopper]

I have been horse shopping for months now. I was just trying to find a back yard QH that I could teach to flat and jump then sell to a local trainer to use as a lesson horse or sell to a client. I have done this before but it was YEARS ago. I have an extra stall now and a project sounded fun. I have looked at horses for months now and nothing seems right. Today I found a 14.3 QH geldig 5yr. Okay mover, good confirmation, some training issues. The price is more than I want to spend and they will have to come down on it before I buy. So here is the question, for trainers with smaller barns that do not go to rated shows - just local smaller shows - how marketable is a 14.3 hand horse as a short stirrup or pre-childrens horse?

I am not looking to make much money I just want a project to play with. I keep thinking about getting an OTTB but I do not have the facility to start one off of the track (which I have done when I was boarding at a bigger barn).

Any input is welcome. Just FYI, I have worked with some green horses and retrained them for both h/j and c/t so I have a little experience with this but nothing recently.

[JA]

It's not! Most pros whether local or rated level do not want anything that is that small. 14.3 is commonly referred to as a HONY

[Big_Grey_hunter]

honeys are worth very little 99% of the time. people small enough for a honey mostly just get a pony.

Have you checked the camelot auction or ac4h? Lots of ponies/QH for very low prices who just need some care and training to be nice horses. New horses every week.

[trail blazer]

Unfortunately, 14.3 will get you nowhere fast. Although, it might be worth putting a stick on him to see if there is any way you can get him measured as a large after a good trim etc. Now THAT would be a whole different ballgame. The only place for 14.3 would be in AQHA classes (done that) or in short stirrup.

I'd check local feed stores etc for the little monthly publications and their bulletin boards for listings.

Good luck.

[findeight]

Well, why not talk to the local trainers you would be marketing to first?

Find out what they want and what they'd pay. Especially since you have not done this for awhile, you may be making alot of assumptions that will prove faulty when you try to sell to them.

I dunno, I have almost always boarded in bigger barns with active training and lesson programs...and they sure would not turn their nose up at a SAFE 14.3 or so hony-that's not a bad size for a school horse. It is going to influence price but we are not talking Jr Hunters on the AA circuit here anyway.

But you'd better get to know the trainers first before you pick something out to train up and try to get them to buy.

[Bopper]

Thanks for the advice. That is pretty much what I thought, too. I am just tired of horse shopping. I may try on of the local livestock auctions next week that usually has some OTTB's go through it. I have checked the local and regional classified publications for horses. I have probably called or e-mailed on about 30-40 and been out to look at maybe 15-20. We have seen some sad animals but none that seemed like they would work out due to confirmation, training, or injury issues.

[Flash44]

I think trainers are looking for a horse that will do the strides, and at 14.3 it may be a stretch. A trainer may want to buy a small, well trained and super safe horse for lesson purposes, but if it cannot do the strides, you probably cannot sell it for enough money to begin to cover your expenses.

[findeight]

I think trainers are looking for a horse that will do the strides, and at 14.3 it may be a stretch. A trainer may want to buy a small, well trained and super safe horse for lesson purposes, but if it cannot do the strides, you probably cannot sell it for enough money to begin to cover your expenses.

Well, my understanding of what OP is wanting to do is purchase and flip in a short time with a reasonably priced lesson horse a trainer might want to sell on to a lower level client, not a show HUNTER at 3'+ specifically.

And if she is talking auction OTTBs now, better check with those trainers-certainly are not buying one recently OTT as a school horse to teach children and nervous adults on.

Remember for RESALE in a short enough time frame to avoid losing a bundle, it's what the buyer wants. If the buyer wants a lesson and lower level horse on a budget??? Safe to teach on is going to be the determiner, not a 12' step.

Much as they have to get the strides? If the are not going above 2'3" or so on a local level and mainly teach and it is a lower budget? Size and step can be the place to compromise.

Like I said, find out what those trainers will spend for a schoolie or lower level horse before you set out to buy one to flip.

[TalkIsCheap]

F8 is right. Nothing wrong with a hony that can take most ages of kids(even an adult) safely around in a S/S Eq/Pre- whatever class at the local schooling level. I'd rather see that than something flashy & fancy running away with the student while we clutch our chests in terror.

Just do you have a market for it?

[grayfox]

I don't think too many trainers buy lesson horses. I don't think a hony would be worth more then a couple thousand. That doesn't seem worth it. Even for a kid with a first horse I'm not sure where a hony fits, it would have to be a small kid and then why wouldn't they just buy a pony. I would stick with a pony or a horse.

[findeight]

On call yesterday and today and reallly booooored...

Anyway, I get the idea if OP is buying out of a backyard or public auction, we are low to mid 4 figures at resale time. At best. Low 4 figures to purchase now for OP.

Simply not going to get the Pony or horse that can safely jump around, stay sound and pack lesson kids in that price range without compromising somewhere. That is a nice, safe, unintimidating size for a schoolie.

And whoever mentioned making sure you have a market first? Yeah, I said it too. Ask the trainers if they even have any interest buying from you. Some do buy schoolies-5kish or so. Some don't so don't waste money or time producing a product you can't sell.

If anything, lesson programs on the lower levels are hurting for clients right now and that is not turning around any time soon. Lots of out of work schoolies out there getting fat in the field.

[gallupgirl]

The only place for 14.3 would be in AQHA classes (done that)

This would be unmarketable in the AQHA show world......they want TALL for their Hunter/Hunt Seat classes.

[CBoylen]

Last hony I saw someone buy cost $800 made up. I don't think I'd want to be the one putting the time into that to make it up.

I feel your pain though, I've been trying to help a friend buy a horse for his daughter, who rides well but is small in stature and has a very small budget. I'd like to see her have something fun and safe that she can work on her own skills without worrying about a dead green (or crazy, or lame, or ancient, or huge, or tiny, or completely talentless) horse. I sort of had the idea in my head that cute qhx type animals suitable for a kid to do 2'6" on at backyard shows would be easy to find, regardless of budget. I have since realized that that is not actually the case .

[RougeEmpire]

This would be unmarketable in the AQHA show world......they want TALL for their Hunter/Hunt Seat classes.

Yep AQHA is stiff when it comes to how they want their hunter. 15.3 is about as small as you can get away with, and really they want them upwards of 17 hands or better.

[HobbyHorse101]

Yep AQHA is stiff when it comes to how they want their hunter. 15.3 is about as small as you can get away with, and really they want them upwards of 17 hands or better.

It'd be small even for Paints, my guy is barely 16hh and looks tiny compared to the 17hh bean poles that are out there. (He's also built like a tank so when he jumps lovely and makes the strides easy they get a bit of a shock)

[Bopper]

Thanks for all of the responses. When it gets right down to it I just want a project to play with for a few months. I thought a pony would be easier to sell than an OTTB. If I go the OTTB route I will change my selling point to something ready to do Pre Greens to sell to a trainer to resell or what ever. I am looking in the three figure range to buy and 4 figure to sell which is okay for my area. I have actually found lots very close to what I want but due to various issues it has not worked out. I told the hony's owner to let me know if they have not sold him in a couple of weeks and if they would then like to some down on the price. If I could not sell him as a lesson horse there is also a local market for cattle penning horses and he has worked cattle some.

The last one that I 'flipped' was actually 14.3 and the trainer turned around and sold him for a couple hundred more (which was fine by me). There are lots of people that just can't afford a nice pony or horse but whose children want to ride in local shows (18" - 2'3"). That was who I was targeting. I went to a show a few weeks ago and several of the SS and pre-children horses were hony's. They are out there I am just not sure about the demand. I am still checking on that now.

I hope I don't sound too flakey but for right now I just want something to play with until I decide exactly what I want for a long term horse.

Thanks for all of the input.

Bopper

[gottagrey]

Until they come up w/ a HONY Division there is not much market for them or there is always pony club and eventing - as height doesn't matter there.. Personally I would either look for a pony or a good sized horse 15.3; and I would certainly not go to the expense of buying & training a horse w/ the idea of selling it as a school horse - those horses are worth their weight in gold (if they're good) but most often, depending on the market area, your just not going to get much of a return..

[findeight]

[quote=Bopper;4963464]...If I could not sell him as a lesson horse there is also a local market for cattle penning horses and he has worked cattle some.

The last one that I 'flipped' was actually 14.3 and the trainer turned around and sold him for a couple hundred more (which was fine by me). There are lots of people that just can't afford a nice pony or horse but whose children want to ride in local shows (18" - 2'3"). That was who I was targeting. I went to a show a few weeks ago and several of the SS and pre-children horses were hony's. [quote]

See, guys, I think I understand where OP is coming from. And it ain't WEF but my BILs world of team penning, playdays and 18" courses. For that market, a safe hony is a marketable commoditity. I would sure take a hony over a right off the track TB out of a public auction for a resale as a safe kid's horse within 90 to 120 days.

[hntrjmprpro45]

Cute, safe and honest? There will always be a market for that. If you price them correctly, you will have no problem selling it. I usually see at least a few "honies" at the schooling shows- all they way up to 2'9" sometimes. I sold a 14.2-14.3h 'hony' earlier this spring. She didn't even have show mileage but she was easy to handle and quiet undersaddle. I thought she was destined to be an adorable hunter but ended up selling to a family as a trail horse.

What it comes down to is the price you are aiming to sell it at. $3k- $4k would be average (at least in our area), for a kid safe, dead quiet, hunter type oversized pony that can pack around a jumping course. The price would go down if it couldn't do its lead changes (though many lower level classes allow trot changes). It's often a huge bonus if you can ride it western too. Many people in this price range are looking for "pleasure" horses who may want to trail ride western.

If it won't be kid safe and quiet then it'll be worth pretty much nothing.

[Tobias]

Have you tried the giveaways? Maybe getting a TB that is from the track, but has been worked with. There are lots there that have some training and just need to get going again. and they are free!