I have a lovely E line Hanoverian/TB Mare (Esbjerg/Espri) that I am planning on breeding this coming spring. I'm strongly leaning toward Weltmeyer. I don't hear much about breeding to him anymore and am wondering if there are any recent Weltmeyer foals out there? The price seems to be great and Weltmeyer is a fabulous stallion I'm wondering about the quality of his frozen.
My mare is pretty leggy and refined, I'm hoping to add a little beef to the foal with good heart girth. My number one goal is excellent temperment (mare is wonderful). The foal will be an all around horse doing some dressage, jumping, hacking etc.
Not a recent foal, but I have an '01 Weltmeyer daughter out of a Bolero mare. She is TALL...17.3 and possibly bigger...but I don't wanna know! She has good legs and a big body, although she's not super thick. Things to know about Weltmeyer are that he is known for producing short(er) legs, and can give his offspring a bit of a coarse head, and sometimes a bit more difficult of a temperament under saddle, although they are very talented. Not all....I've seen plenty of his babies that are very pretty and easy to work with...but my mare in particular has a big ole noggin. I make sure to breed to pretty headed stallions to help her out. She has a wonderful, very people-oriented personality, excellent feet and bone, and a nice neck and topline. Her hindquarters are a bit weak through the top, but she's never been in serious work, just a broodmare, so she never had an opportunity to really build up those muscles. That may have made a big difference. Movement-wise....she's very fancy. She has huge gaits with lots of suspension, and a trot that just floats. She's very free through her shoulder and has a nicely active hind end. The Bolero TB blood may make her a bit more sensitive and "hot", but she is never too much to handle, and is getting better and better with age. I'm not sure what the quality of his frozen is anymore with him getting older, guess it depends on when it was collected. I do know it was excellent quality several years ago. Overall, if the semen quality is still there, Weltmeyer is one of those tried and true stallions that you can get a really nice baby from if your mare compliments his traits.
Cheryl at Hidden Acres has a Weltmeyer filly this year out of one of her His Highness mares. Sold in utero, named Wyleigh Priness, very nice girl!!!! In fact they bred the mare back and she is confirmed in foal to Weltmeyer for 2011. If they get a filly again, the plan is to keep her pics on their website www.hiddenacresfarm.net
Weltmeyer is my absolute favorite stallion of all time. He is tried and true, producing countless approved sons, SPS daughters and international dressage horses. Although he is considered "old fashioned" and not the hottest stallion right now, I was pleasantly surprised to find tha he still had a son selected as reserve for the German team for the World Champs for Young Dressage horses, as well as being the grandsire and dam sire to several other horses selected for the team. http://www.eurodressage.com/equestri...ressage-horses
I have had one direct Weltmeyer daughter, a granddaughter by Wolkenstein II and a granddaughter by Wolkentanz I. All excellent mares with superb trots, big strong feet, tons of bone and beautiful heads. I think he regularly passes on an excellent trot, good bone and an excellent hind leg. The offspring can be short legged. I have heard that they can be difficult under saddle, but that has not been my experience.
I believe his frozen is excellent. His son Wolkentanz II in Manitoba is also a great choice and is available fresh.
In '02 I bred a Batido (Bolero) daughter to Weltmeyer. Mare got pregnant with one dose/one cycle.
Resulting mare is close to 17hh (but her dam was 17.2hh), has super bone/feet. MUCH nicer head than her dam. In fact, I disagree with the poster who said W. can throw an ugly head. I feel Weltmeyer passes on a pretty nice head -- that sort of square, semi- QH type head -- not ugly at all. Most of his sons also have that type of head and in my case, W. definitely improved the head.
My mare is longer in the back and has rather weak/light hindquarters; something that W. is usually known for improving, but that didn't happen in my case.
Gaits are super -- very driving trot with loads of suspension.
Mare is NOT a real sweetie pie in terms of temperament (neither was her dam); she's not bad, but rather alpha and likes to argue about stuff. In other words, instead of just doing what you ask her to do (like my "R" line mare), this mare says, "why should I?"
But I understand this is very much a Weltmeyer trait. And it certainly isn't unmanageable.
The dam didn't have very long legs, and W doesn't throw them, so I got what I expected in that dept.
I agree he is tried & true, so if you have the right sort of mare, I'd give it a try.
I feel Weltmeyer passes on a pretty nice head -- that sort of square, semi- QH type head -- not ugly at all. Most of his sons also have that type of head and in my case, W. definitely improved the head.
I have a 2004 by Weltmeyer. I adore him but am an upper level professional - so I wouldn't say he's a sire for every mare, especially strong Alpha types. Big gaits, strong hindquarters, plenty of personality...not for an AA rider (which is fine by me). He is a dressage horse - jumping is not his strong area even though he comes from a very successful mare line (all are super through at least 4' except this fellow). He is not a horse to trail ride, take XC, pursue an over fences career or low level dressage, but an FEI career is where his talent lies...which is perfect for my desires. I ride at least 5 horses per day and if I do not work at sitting his trot every single day for at least 20 minutes - well - it is a strenuous workout the next ride - he is incredibly powerful with the typical Absatz strength. We sold his full brother to a professional and apparently he is a handful and well over 17.2 now.
Here are an assortment of photos Left - Right
July 4, 2010
May 2, 2004 (4 days)
September 2008 & Sept '08
I would have loved to have bred his dam back for another full sibling but she passed away a year ago today. We have 2 fillies that I would love to breed to him in the future - slightly softer in character and if I don't breed to him and have the foals in the next 5 years I doubt my back will be up to another Weltmeyer youngster after that point. For a more all around type, I would look to either of the Wolkentanz brothers or Wolkenstein II who brings Wendekreis in from his damline to improve the jumping ability.
Tasker makes a good point about the Weltmeyer attitude. Even Celle said he could be difficult when younger and those guys are excellent riders.
There was a local gal (ammie) who paid alot of $$ for a W. son (gelding) and she simply could not ride him. His gaits were too strong and he did not have alot of patience with her fumbling around up there. I remember once they had a serious meltdown in the middle of test and she blamed the horse, but even I (far from a dressage expert) could see it was the rider.
Her trainer loved to ride him, though!
I actually always preferred Wolkenstein II to his sire, and he brings Bolero to the table as well. His semen is also excellent (or it was); my mare conceived TRIPLETS with one dose!
First - thank you guys! Like I said, I adore this horse!
Second - I'm not sure there is a 'right type' personality wise for Weltmeyer as everyone who knows W personally laughs heartily when they meet my Wyatt - apparently he is a 'typical' Weltmeyer from the first snort at something he finds spooky to the 'so you think you can ride THIS?' antics and then he is a cuddling guy after he's done working. When he was started undersaddle the only advice I was given was to NEVER give him a day off and then he would shine...and they are right.
His dam was an Alpha but not in the top echelon (all our girls are Alpha's)
The mares/fillies I would breed to him in the future are softer in the back undersaddle (not weak, just more pliable), softer natured with no argumentative side to their personality. If I were to go with an Alpha type - well, I have a very good idea of what the result would be...a handful! And that's not necessarily a bad thing - just something to be aware of! Mares with strong D lines (Donnerhall without Absatz), R lines w/ some TB would be the way I would lean (just going on bloodlines alone).
Here's his dam FWIW - and she was 3/4 TB plus the Absatz from Abundance - who was quite similar to Weltmeyer in many respects. We switched to breeding her to Dressage Royal (Donnerhall/Rubinstein) and the resulting offspring have better elasticity, temperament and still maintain the Absatz qualities that we like so much.
Thanks for the Feedback. I hear a common thread about "the right kind of mare" Can you be more specific?
Well, I can't speak as much for their temperaments, but Weltmeyer has shown to nick very well with "B" line mares....they were bringing some very good prices in the riding horse auctions.
In terms of temperament, I would just say I would not cross him with a real alpha, argumentative, super hot sort of mare.
Tasker's gelding sounds just like my mare (who was o/o a Batido daughter); very loving in many ways -- and in fact is FAR more social and "cuddly" than her dam was -- but she IS very opinionated and stubborn. She's not particularly spooky, but if you push her around her first inclination is to push back.
She is the type of mare who I could easily see being a problem with an owner who doesn't have experience with this sort of horse -- she'd be running the show in a heartbeat.
And the funny thing is -- her daughter is EXACTLY the same way! She has the Weltmeyer head, the Weltmeyer butt and the Weltmeyer attitude!
We just love the "engine" Weltmeyer brings to the equation he just needs to be matched with the right mare.
I have another Weltmeyer/His Highness coming next year. Semen was great and mare took on first try. This year's foal by that same cross sold in-utero and I could kick myself. Black, blingy with outstanding gaits and temperment. But then again the filly is like her dam.. Elite Mare Heiress by His Highness. . I sell my colts.
Imported from Germany, Assembled in Michigan
Rare damline of 7 direct generations of Elite/States Premium Mares.
My Espinette (Espri / Woermann) was bred first to Weltregent (Weltmeyer / Donnerhall / Pik Bube), and had a charming athletic chestnut filly - total alpha mare, fearless, brave, athletic.
She has also had a colt by Widmark (Wolkentanz / Maat) who is the most cuddly, easy boy ever. Very sociable, gentle, and engaged. Both foals (now horses) correct in their gaits, healthy and easy. I think W and E are very good together.
I've just had a lovely, blingy filly by Wolkenglanz (Wolkenstein II / Bolero / Akzent) from my Eiger/ Wenzel mare.
Both these E-line mares have W-line damsires. Both have had very good Weltmeyer line offspring.
The Espri/Woerman's w-foals are good, moderate sized (16.1h mare and the gelding will finish 16.2). Her other foals, by Landkonig and Starlight have been huge. So the W-line seems to have had a moderating size influence (or just a coincidence)
I am trying to keep the fee under 1k and get the best bang for my buck so to say and a horse that I enjoy riding. Weltmeyer is tried and true, however I am now second guessing the temperment based on comments above This horse will not be a sale prospect but my own riding/pleasure/event horse. Ick...You just never know!