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  1. #1
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    Jul. 9, 2002
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    Southern Pines, NC
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    I recently got the stallion guidebooks from two registries and I was looking through the stallions. There was a nice looking, newly liscenced young stallion that has not yet done his performance test and is only provisional right now. I thought, gee he looks nice, maybe I'll call for information on him. Then I see his studfee is $1800 - for a new young stallion that hasn't done anything yet?

    I'm just wondering, I keep seeing those threads about how the average US stallion only books a handful of mares a year, and I'm wondering if perhaps they aren't just priced out of the reach of the average mare owner in a lot of cases? Now I know that it costs a lot of money to promote a stallion, but I wonder if lowering studfees would generate a larger number of breedings and therefore more income and more exposure for the stallion. From my point of view as a smaller breeder that bred five mares this year, it's cheaper to use frozen semen than breed to stallions whose fees are in that kind of range. Even with a premium mare discount, many of the young stallions that I like would still cost me over $1500. I did a stallion auction this year and we sold every single breeding and had people begging for more. I did frozen semen this year and spent about the same money vet-wise as with shipped semen, and I have four mares that we got in foal with one dose of frozen semen at around $500 a dose. If the stallions in the US were in the $1000-$1200 range though, I'd be more likely to consider shipped. Food for thought? Discussion?



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul. 9, 2002
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    Southern Pines, NC
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    810

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    I recently got the stallion guidebooks from two registries and I was looking through the stallions. There was a nice looking, newly liscenced young stallion that has not yet done his performance test and is only provisional right now. I thought, gee he looks nice, maybe I'll call for information on him. Then I see his studfee is $1800 - for a new young stallion that hasn't done anything yet?

    I'm just wondering, I keep seeing those threads about how the average US stallion only books a handful of mares a year, and I'm wondering if perhaps they aren't just priced out of the reach of the average mare owner in a lot of cases? Now I know that it costs a lot of money to promote a stallion, but I wonder if lowering studfees would generate a larger number of breedings and therefore more income and more exposure for the stallion. From my point of view as a smaller breeder that bred five mares this year, it's cheaper to use frozen semen than breed to stallions whose fees are in that kind of range. Even with a premium mare discount, many of the young stallions that I like would still cost me over $1500. I did a stallion auction this year and we sold every single breeding and had people begging for more. I did frozen semen this year and spent about the same money vet-wise as with shipped semen, and I have four mares that we got in foal with one dose of frozen semen at around $500 a dose. If the stallions in the US were in the $1000-$1200 range though, I'd be more likely to consider shipped. Food for thought? Discussion?



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb. 9, 2004
    Location
    Oregon
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    206

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    Amen, say it again http://chronicleforums.com/images/cu...milies/yes.gif...I am a small breeder with only two mares being bred, I do not qualify for a lot of the discounts and paying an arm and a leg for the stallion I REALLY want to breed to is just not feasible right now...If prices were to be lowered or more discounts were made available more of the smaller breeders would be happy campers (er, breeders)
    Jessie
    -Jessie Peterson
    RoseWood Stables
    http://www.rosewoodstables.com
    \"Lead me not into temptation; I can find the way myself.\" - Rita Mae Brown



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov. 1, 2001
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    I think $1800 is a lot for unproven stallion. I think $1800 is a lot for a proven stallion, as well. You can breed to some of the finest proven stallions in the world (via frozen) for under $1000. Granted there is no LFG, but if you have a proven mare who is an easy breeder, I'd be incline to try that rather than pay more for a young guy with a large price tag.
    See those flying monkeys? They work for me.



  5. #5
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    Jul. 9, 2002
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    Southern Pines, NC
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    810

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    So what about some of the US stallions selling semen by the dose ?



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov. 6, 2002
    Location
    Henrico, NC 36 30'50.49" N 77 50'17.47" W
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    This might not have anything to do with the price of tea in China or in this case the stud fee amounts in the US but just as a point of possible interest we have 2 ten pound dogs with $2000 stud fees. I just don't see a few hundred dollars one way or the other being high on the list of priorities in selection of a stallion to breed a mare to. There are so many other factors involved to produce the best possible foal. If a breeder is not trying to produce the best foal that they can it seems to me to raise questions that the breeder maybe should ask themselves.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov. 22, 2000
    Location
    Maple Park, IL, USA
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    331

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    Have you thought that maybe the SO didn't really want to get a lot of breedings for this young stallion? Perhaps the plan was that they would rather only breed to one or two mares at a high price, and spend his time and energy on training. Perhaps their plan is more aimed at a future breeding career, and they are thinking to create an 'upscale' image for him when the time comes to stand him seriously?
    This may just be a 'marketing ploy'.
    Karousel Farms, Breeders of Fine Trakehner Sporthorses.



  8. #8
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    Jun. 3, 2003
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    Aberdeen, NC, USA
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    We know what it's like to be a small breeder on a budget... so we offer both of our import-quality stallions at very reasonable prices WITH LFG. And our one stallion has produced nothing but Premium foals with 4 crops on the ground! We also will sell frozen semen by the dose... and we are not alone. If you do your homework you will find quality stallions of most WB bloodlines available under $1000.
    Pat Belskie - ASHEMONT Farm

    http://www.ashemont.com
    Ashemont2@gmail.com



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb. 26, 2002
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    Up Nort whar tis COLD
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    This is one of the reasons that Warmblood Breeders NA was formed, to offer more effective means of breeding, by uniting stallion owners and mare owners.

    I agree with CindyGen. I bred 3 mares this year with frozen, and 2 with fresh. The fresh cooled were 'deals' that I found, either early discounts or auction-type deals.

    Some stallion owners think that they have to have a high price or people think something is wrong with the stallion, or that the value of the foal is diminished. I disagree.

    I think stallion owners will find that overpricing will bite them in the tush. With the popularity of frozen semen, SO's will have to find a way to fall in line with affordability or they simply won't get bookings.



  10. #10
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    Mar. 6, 2003
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    Denver, CO, USA
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    Its really a bummer that by the time a foal hits the ground, you probably already have about six grand into it. About a third of that amount is the stud fee. Reducing the stud fees would help a little bit with the costs, but the other big costs are the cost of caring for the mare for 15 months, and vet care (both getting her pregnant and caring for any little emergencies).
    ________________________
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  11. #11
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    Jul. 9, 2002
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    Southern Pines, NC
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    I don't think this is an issue of quality over cost, since as has been said above, frozen semen from some of the best stallions in the world is available for under $1000. I just think it's a shame that a nicely bred young stallion here would not be affordable to me when a proven stallion in Europe would be by frozen.



  12. #12
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    Oct. 29, 1999
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    We have kept Nevada's fee very reasonable at $500. with a LFG for 30 days from birth. His fee has continued to attract very nice mares - mostly TB and European Warmblood branded and Approved mares, but also nice mare of a variey of breeds. We sometimes begin with a breeders least promising mare, but when they like their Nevada foal out of her, better than the foals bred with Imported frozen semen out of their best mares, we move up and up http://chronicleforums.com/images/cu...milies/yes.gif Yes, I work VERY hard for each breeding, but I would rather get 30 mares a year and get those foals out there being "living, breathing, & walking advertisements"



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun. 22, 2004
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    Central Florida
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    i have to say.. I thought about using Nevada a while back (the mare fell through http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...icon_frown.gif ) I have seen quite a few of his babies one including a nice bay 2 or 3yr old a few weeks ago. He is a great stallion for a great price. This baby was sweet and perfectly built. He also seems to produce lots of white also... which is also an added bonus http://chronicleforums.com/images/cu...milies/yes.gif
    *^*^*^
    Himmlische Traumpferde
    "Wenn Du denkst es geht nicht mehr, kommt von irgendwo ein kleines Licht daher"



  14. #14
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    Jun. 22, 2004
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    Central Florida
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    do you think i could put any more alsos in that last sentence? LOL sorry about that
    *^*^*^
    Himmlische Traumpferde
    "Wenn Du denkst es geht nicht mehr, kommt von irgendwo ein kleines Licht daher"



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb. 4, 2003
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    Burleson, Texas
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    I'm another small farm. We imported a Hanoverian stallion (tested in Moscow; great scorse, great movement, a real charmer to be around). He is eligible for Book I with RPSI, so that's the registry we are going with. His first foals are on the ground this year. All are superb. Mostly out of WB mares, but also some from TBs and so far, can't really tell the difference. His foals out of the same mares that foaled my Diamonds and Freestyles and Calettos are better than the high price stud fee foals.

    In reference to Darlyn's post, our stud fee is also $500. I would love to have 30 mares at this fee. We have two mares booked and paid this year. Semen is great; ships well.

    LFG, two year contract. I don't expect a lot of breedings until, like Darlyn, I have the foals out there being seen. It takes time. So this is the counterpoint for young stallions. Many people talk about wanting affordable prices, but many also still seem to really want the big name horses for their mares.

    It takes a lot of time. Due to foaling, rebreedign and taking care of a foal on the brink if critical care since May, I missed the spring show season. Hoping to take Otschag to shows in the fall. Of course, I'm in Texas, so .......

    It's a tough time. I am hearing that a lot of mare owners are leaving them open. Maybe the economy is a factor as well. I also hear that it is improving...

    DonnaCarson Farm



  16. #16
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    Mar. 29, 2004
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    I've come to the conclusion I'm feeling grumpy today, so my apologies in advance. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...on_biggrin.gif But my thinking is along the lines of Farmdad's. In the discipline we breed for the stud fees of the stallions we use are between $2500 to $5000. $2500 for a stallion with a proven performance but no babies of performance age yet, $5000 for performance and production record. And that makes sense to me, it acts as birth control. Prevents us from breeding willy nilly and ending up with 20 foals in the pasture there's no market for.

    And obviously the above stud fees are nothing compared to some other disciplines. I'm amazed to hear good proven stallions can be had for under $1000. And my initial feeling is that's a really bad thing.

    I guess if someone is breeding sheerly as a hobby, doesn't expect to recoup their money, and is willing and able to provide that foal with a home for life, I say stud fees should be as low as possible. But just about anyone could spend $500 on a stud fee. The real question for me is will there be a market and good home for that foal. If the stallion the OP mentioned is unproven, I'm glad his stud fee is set high. There's already too many foals/horses without good homes.



  17. #17
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    Feb. 4, 2003
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    What is OP?



  18. #18
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    Jun. 1, 2003
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    The Shake and Bake State
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    I think a lot of SO with stallions DO price them higher because they worry that folks will not breed to the stallion if it is cheaper. I know a HUGE part of the stallion fee is covering costs of marketing him. It is a shame this stallion is priced at $1800 but I think many people shy away from young and unproven stallions, and if their price is too low, more people shy away. The stallion I bred to is young, unproven, and it was his first year standing to public but, he comes from some of my favorite Trakehner bloodlines. I feel he was reasonably priced and Frodo is worth every dime I spent. Thre are so many factors involved here and I believe one of the biggest factors is the fear of breeding to a younger and unproven stallion. It is a huge chance, if breeding isn't a big enough chance already (read: crapshoot), and the price probably reflects the kind of clients and mares they want to breed this guy to, rather than just getting his foals on the ground, as many as possible, to advertise for him. BTW, I am not agreeing with the SO in this situation, I am just trying to find a reason for this high stud fee. Also, in my situation, I had a price range for a stud fee higher than what I paid for this particular stallion, by a few hundred, so I had the capability to breed to a more seasoned and proven stallion, I don't regret, not for one second, choosing the stallion I chose. Sorry for the ramble... http://chronicleforums.com/images/cu...milies/lol.gif
    ~Amy~ TrakehNERD clique
    *Bugs 5/86-3/10 OTTB Mare* RIP lovely Lady, I miss you
    *Frodo '03 Anglo Trakehner Gelding*
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  19. #19
    Join Date
    Aug. 25, 2002
    Location
    Stockton, NJ
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    RWS there are A LOT of stallion service auctions where people can get top stallions at a fraction of their stud fees. Early in the year they were listed and updated here on the COTH mulitple times. Savvy mare owners will "stalk" the auctions.

    If a mare owner has a premium or sport approved mare many SO will offer good discounts. Some SO offer substantial discounts for repeat business. A few SO were offering FREE breedings this year to stimulate interest in their very nice stallions.

    I agree with Farm dad - mare owners should be working on trying to find the best stallion that would cross well with their mare - NOT necessarily the cheapest. Stallion owners shouldn't have to hand over their top stallions services on a platter to every mare owner. It is their perogative to pick and choose their fees and their clientele. As LEP stated - the stud fee is only part of the equation. If you can't afford the stud fee - can you afford everything else that goes along with it?

    I am "price conscious" and do use a lot of frozen semen. I also bid on the SSA auctions. I don't mind paying a higher end stud fee if I know that the management (and stallions semen) is top quality. When management is poor - costs can quickly become much higher than the actual stud fee http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...n_rolleyes.gif. There are a lot of "parts" that need to completed before you get the whole picture of what the final cost is.



  20. #20
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    Jun. 1, 2003
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dray:
    What is OP? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Original poster
    ~Amy~ TrakehNERD clique
    *Bugs 5/86-3/10 OTTB Mare* RIP lovely Lady, I miss you
    *Frodo '03 Anglo Trakehner Gelding*
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