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  1. #1
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    have any of you sent your stallions there?

    Were you pleased with the results?

    Would you do it again?

    If you had a stallion that maybe didn't do as well as you thought ... what did you do? Go the performance route? Geld him?

    Would you breed to a stallion that had the top score ... would that play a part in your decision?

    What do you think of the evalution analysis ... I've copied it here
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> <UL TYPE=SQUARE>Scoring breakdown Marks by Training Director -- 50% of total score

    —Character (stable manners) 5 percent
    —Temperament (under saddle) 5 percent
    —Ability to work 5 percent
    —Willingness to work 5 percent

    General Jumping aptitude 7.5 percent

    Basic gaits:
    —walk 2.5 percent
    —trot 2.5 percent
    —canter 2.5 percent

    Rideability 15 percent

    ---------------------

    Marks by Experts -- 50% of final score

    —Jumping under saddle 10 percent
    —Free jumping 7.5 percent
    —Rideability 15 percent
    Basic gaits:
    —walk 2.5 percent
    —trot 2.5 percent
    —canter 2.5 percent

    Cross country(4000m) :
    —canter 5 percent
    —jumping 5 percent [/list]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Oh, and how does this test differ from German's test?
    "For God hates utterly
    The bray of bragging tongues."
    Sophocles, Antigone Spoken by the Leader of the Chorus of Theban Elders



  2. #2
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    have any of you sent your stallions there?

    Were you pleased with the results?

    Would you do it again?

    If you had a stallion that maybe didn't do as well as you thought ... what did you do? Go the performance route? Geld him?

    Would you breed to a stallion that had the top score ... would that play a part in your decision?

    What do you think of the evalution analysis ... I've copied it here
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> <UL TYPE=SQUARE>Scoring breakdown Marks by Training Director -- 50% of total score

    —Character (stable manners) 5 percent
    —Temperament (under saddle) 5 percent
    —Ability to work 5 percent
    —Willingness to work 5 percent

    General Jumping aptitude 7.5 percent

    Basic gaits:
    —walk 2.5 percent
    —trot 2.5 percent
    —canter 2.5 percent

    Rideability 15 percent

    ---------------------

    Marks by Experts -- 50% of final score

    —Jumping under saddle 10 percent
    —Free jumping 7.5 percent
    —Rideability 15 percent
    Basic gaits:
    —walk 2.5 percent
    —trot 2.5 percent
    —canter 2.5 percent

    Cross country(4000m) :
    —canter 5 percent
    —jumping 5 percent [/list]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Oh, and how does this test differ from German's test?
    "For God hates utterly
    The bray of bragging tongues."
    Sophocles, Antigone Spoken by the Leader of the Chorus of Theban Elders



  3. #3
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  4. #4
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    Hey HFSH ...

    Haven't a clue. Don't even know where I'd find out, but I'll try.

    Got your PT & replied.

    Have you ever sent a stallion to one of these HFSH? What do you think of the concept? Good. Bad. Ugly. Indifferent?

    The only caveat I have, and of course my opinion is VERY ignorant (which is why I started the thread) is the age issue. It is my understanding that knees close on WBs when they're about four. Why would anyone want to train a horse to jump when the knees aren't closed?

    Aside from that, it looks like a lot of the score is based on temperament, rideability, etc. THAT seems like a plus.

    I started this thread to learn more. I do NOT have an agenda. If this is a hot potato sorry, I didn't know and I'll close it.
    "For God hates utterly
    The bray of bragging tongues."
    Sophocles, Antigone Spoken by the Leader of the Chorus of Theban Elders



  5. #5
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    Me personally no. Friend has sent 2 through the short test (Ken Borden).

    Flame suit on.

    It appears that it is best for stallion owners to send a 5yo than a 3yo because they have an extra 2 years training, and the older horses have been winning the past several testings. 5 point penalty doesn't do squat when you sent a confirmed Open Jumper or a 2nd/3rd Level dressage horse to the testing, if you compare it to a barely broke 3yo stallion! It's just not fair to the younger stallions in my opinion.

    There.

    Flame away. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...on_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c.../icon_razz.gif



  6. #6
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    I don't see any reason to flame you HFSH.

    I think that's a perfectly reasonable response. And a 5 point penalty does not seem excessive either.

    I understand they've raised the price of the test from $6k to $10. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...s/icon_eek.gif And that's for a registry-approved candidate.

    Let me ask you, if you had a three year old, would you want him doing this test? I understand that's what they do at the stallion testing in Germany. That kind of conflicts with the slow-but-steady-to-maintain-soundness attitude most US breeders seem to have.
    "For God hates utterly
    The bray of bragging tongues."
    Sophocles, Antigone Spoken by the Leader of the Chorus of Theban Elders



  7. #7
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I understand they've raised the price of the test from $6k to $10. And that's for a registry-approved candidate. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    YIKES! There goes any aspirations I ever had about raising a colt to stallion-hood! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...s/icon_eek.gif
    PROUD MEMBER OF THE \"OMGiH I LOFF MY MARE\" CLIQUE



  8. #8
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    Just my opinion....but here goes...and this is, of course, just our personal decision...different things work for different people...

    We had considered going when the 100DT was to be in CA this year. We have decided to pursue the performance route instead. I recently talked to some folks that figure, all totalled, they will spend about $20K for the testing...and even one of the training directors told me that many approved stallions will not ever book more than a few breedings per year. (As we already book plenty of mares it is hard to have this be a factor)

    While it is an interesting concept...many of the horses there may not ever show to Level 8 jumpers or PSG dressage (the performance requirements) yet they get approved no problem since they are nice "all-arounders". I would guess some of them can't even manage their hormones enough to make it to an open show and perform in a new environment where mares our present so I'm not sure how much weight to give these scores that are so expensive to obtain. That said, when a stallion has NO performance career...the scores are nice to look at and gives some ideas of his strengths.

    When I get to the bottom line, $20K buys a heck of a lot of horseshows! We already show and win at a level higher that what the 100dt tests for. I just can't justify that much money for someone to tell me that Palladio is easy to ride and talented. I can gather that every time he babysits me over a fence http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...on_biggrin.gif...and after listening to George Morris gush about him all weekend...I guess I don't really question whether or not qualified people think he's talented.

    Besides....on top of all of that...there is always the little scary voice in the back of my head that says...."what if he comes back and can't be ridden and shown in his rubber bit", "what if he were to get sick and no one noticed?", "what if, what if, what if. At the end of the day I'm not sure if I could live with myself if something happened to him while he was there....and Ohio is a pretty darn long haul from Washington State! In Europe the distance just isn't an issue...no one has to haul for a week to get to a test...

    I can say that I like the idea of sending them older...three is younger than I like my horses to jump. I like the slow and steady approach myself.

    Just one opinion....
    Andrea Clibborn-Anderson
    www.crestlinefarm.com
    Home of Pinto Dutch Warmblood Palladio



  9. #9
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crestline:
    "what if he comes back and can't be ridden and shown in his rubber bit" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...s/icon_eek.gif

    OMGiH this was worth starting the thread alone! You can ride your stallion in a rubber bit!

    I guess he just never needed anything stronger ???? Kudos to you BOTH. Whatta guy!

    And THAT is a very persuasive point ... $20K buys a lot of horse shows. From my inquiries on the H/J board, apparently it would buy 20 weeks!

    I also understand that performance requirements are different for every registry ... is that right?
    "For God hates utterly
    The bray of bragging tongues."
    Sophocles, Antigone Spoken by the Leader of the Chorus of Theban Elders



  10. #10
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    OMOM-
    Heehee...yes happy mouth snaffle all the way...even hopping around the prelim/Level 5's/Mini Prix. You can imagine I'm a tad protective over who puts what in his mouth http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...icon_smile.gif

    Like I said...hard to spend the money for someone to say "yep, he's ride-able" http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...on_biggrin.gif
    Andrea Clibborn-Anderson
    www.crestlinefarm.com
    Home of Pinto Dutch Warmblood Palladio



  11. #11
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    I had a stallion OMOM and we opted to start the Performance route versus the 100dt. Moot point as he died, but, that was the plan. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c.../icon_wink.gif

    The performance route is expensive if you are paying a trainer! $20K will get you 20 months of training at $1K per month, no show expenses included!

    I like the new route that the Europeans are taking, with 2 testings. 1 30-day and 1 70-day testing. Gives 2 opportunities for scores, and a break in between to let the horse rest before the bigger testing. I like that idea! http://chronicleforums.com/images/cu...milies/yes.gif



  12. #12
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    .. and where can I get a Palladio baby? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c.../icon_wink.gif

    I believe Liz (pintofoal) if I'm not mistaken had Sempatico in the 100 DT, but don't quote me on that. I do remember him being in some type of testing.. but Liz will have to verify that one. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...icon_smile.gif

    --

    Edited to say, nevermind - Sempatico was in the 30 and 70 DT http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...icon_smile.gif



  13. #13
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    FWIW I've talked to a number of owners who put their stallions through the test who were very happy with the care, training and experience. One of them was an older stallion, the others went through as three year olds. One stallion went to the test basically unstarted and passed and the owners were very pleased and he is progressing well in sport. Another was an older stallion who won the test and was already seasoned - the owner will tell you it was the best training money she ever spent on the horse and she couldn't have been happier with how he came back. The other three ranged in age from four to five when sent and the owners were also happy and felt the care and training were very good and consistant with their own training programs. The caveat here is all of these horses scored well and passed http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c.../icon_wink.gif
    I'm not saying the test is perfect but I would take the time to call up owners of stallions yourself - most are more than willing to talk candidly about their experience.



  14. #14
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crestline:
    OMOM-
    Heehee...yes happy mouth snaffle all the way...even hopping around the prelim/Level 5's/Mini Prix. You can imagine I'm a tad protective over who puts what in his mouth http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...icon_smile.gif

    Like I said...hard to spend the money for someone to say "yep, he's ride-able" http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...on_biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I guess. If I were going to do an ad for him for one of the stallion publications, I think I'd have that as a headline:

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> This Stallion's so Rideable he shows in a RUBBER BIT! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    or, even better:

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Free Rubber bit with every booking! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I am just kidding, but congratulations. It also speaks very highly for your hands! I'm very very impressed. (BTW, please check your PTs in a minute or so. I want to ask you a question http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c.../icon_wink.gif

    HFSH -

    Oh, sweetie, I'm so sorry.

    I am lucky as my Partner on my guy is a trainer. But the two testings are an interesting alternative. Do you think this will catch on here?
    "For God hates utterly
    The bray of bragging tongues."
    Sophocles, Antigone Spoken by the Leader of the Chorus of Theban Elders



  15. #15
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    Well, since the Federation is only doing ONE testing every 2 years, I can't see them getting it together any time soon to do 30 and 70 day tests. We as a country are not producing enough stallion candidates yet to make it feasible, I think. The testing fills every 2 years, but that's 20 stallions every 2 years.

    http://chronicleforums.com/images/cu...ilies/uhoh.gif



  16. #16
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    Something else I just learned.

    They only accept 20 stallions. And I assume they have NO problem filling the stalls!
    "For God hates utterly
    The bray of bragging tongues."
    Sophocles, Antigone Spoken by the Leader of the Chorus of Theban Elders



  17. #17
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    Well, I have sent two stallions through 100 day testing - one as an immature 3 yr old (dressage type) and one as a 4 yr old (jumper type). IMO, the decision to send depends on two factors: the mental and physical maturity of the horse, and who will be the training leader. Both horses enjoyed the experience, esp. cross-country, and finished the tesing with above average scores. If I had it to do again, I would have sent the 3 yr old as a 4 yr old - he was tall and gangly and the dressage work did not suit him at that age. He did go on to be a very successful sire in Canada. The other stallion (Agincourt) came through the tesing wonderfully, looked great, completed the testing in a happy apple bit. He was 2nd in the jumping with a score over 126. He still goes in a snaffle today after many years on the big circuits.

    If Helmut Schrant is the training director, I would not hesitate to send another stallion (although our current stallion prospect is being raised in Germany and will test there if licensed). BTW, we did not spend anywhere near $20,000 for either testing, and one horse shipped back East. One suggestions for anyone sending a horse, be proactive in your approach to the testing. Go meet the Tr. Dir. and let him know your expectations, for example, you would like a phone call each week for an update on your horse's progress. Go to visit during the testing, or have a friend that lives near visit.

    My personal experience is that the testing is not much different from sending a horse to a top training barn for 3 months. But, I would have my horse fit before sending him.

    JMO.
    Judy
    Sylvan Farm~Breeding for Performance
    Ramzes SF, approved GOV and Belgian http://sylvanfarm.com
    Chair, USSHBA Positive ID Working Group; USSHBA Steering Committe member



  18. #18
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Oldenburg Mom:
    have any of you sent your stallions there? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Yes, Mannhattan went in 1996.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Were you pleased with the results? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Overall, yes. It's like most things, especially involving horses. Some things I was really, really pleased with and others less happy with. But the overall experience was positive.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Would you do it again? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Yes. I'm sending our four year old stallion, Waterford this year. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...on_biggrin.gif

    [QUOTE[ If you had a stallion that maybe didn't do as well as you thought ... what did you do? Go the performance route? Geld him? [/QUOTE]

    If I had a stallion that didn't pass the test, I'd probably geld him and sell him.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Would you breed to a stallion that had the top score ... would that play a part in your decision? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    My only concern when looking at a stallion is whether or not he is fully licensed. How he achieved the license is secondary. So, it would depend on the stallion. Would it play a part in my decision, probably not...other than knowing that he successfully completed the test. ANY stallion that has completed the test has proven that he is an exceptional athlete. It "is" tough.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> What do you think of the evalution analysis ... I've copied it here <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    One thing you can be sure of with a stallion that has completed the 100 Day Test, is that they probably have a decent temperament. Almost 50% of the final score has something to do with work ethic, rideability, trainability, character, temperament, etc.

    The cost of the testing is $8,500 for a stallion that is approved through one of the Federation registries. On top of that, you have your costs of getting the stallion there (it's going to cost me about $2,500), liability insurance for him while he's there, and any vet or shoeing costs while there.

    This year's stallion director is Helmut Schrant.

    While going the performance route is certainly an option, it has its inherent risk. Mannhattan completed the testing and went on to perform up to the 5' division in the jumpers, quite successfully. Unfortunately, he ended up hooking his shoe in a fence and removing a goodly portion of the hoof, pulling all kinds of tendons and such in his leg and is now no longer performance sound. If I had been going the performance route, he wouldn't have his breeding license and his offspring would not be eligible for registration, in spite of how well they are doing!

    Liz sent Spectrum to the last testing here in the US, not Sempatico. Spectrum did quite well and was a fun horse to watch throughout. He just had that "can do" attitude. It "is" interesting to see the stallions who do go through the testing as you are literally looking at some top notch performance animals all in one arena.

    It "is" difficult! It's meant to be. Wouldn't mean a darn thing if it wasn't! There "are" risks to it and there is also the possibility that the stallion won't score sufficiently to attain a license. But, there are risks in going the performance route, as well which are mroe substantial, in my opinion. The training directors have the horses well being in mind and do everything they can to give the stallions the best opportunity to succeed.

    I agree with the others about the age issue. It would have to be an exceptionally mature stallion for me to send them as a three year old. Waterford at four still has some growing and maturing to do, but I'm comfortable sending him this year. As a three year old, he just looked like a kid http://chronicleforums.com/images/cu...milies/yes.gif...gawky, gangly and just not mature enough. Waterford, btw, is ridden in a nice, easy French snaffle http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...on_biggrin.gif and goes around quite softly and happily.

    It's been interesting watching the progression with Waterford. He's a Mannhattan grandson, so he definitely can jump. His temperament is to die for &lt;smile&gt;...comes running nickering when we go out to catch him in his paddock and the dude can MOVE!! Nervous? You bet! But I wouldn't send him if I didn't think he'd do well.

    Kathy St.Martin
    Mannuscript Farm
    Home of the Oldenburg stallions, Mannhattan and Waterford

    and

    Equine Reproduction Short Courses
    6 days left of the Spring Enrollment Special!
    http://www.equine-reproduction.com



  19. #19
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    Omom - There are two different questions in my mind. Would I send one of my own? And does having 100DT scores available on a stallion make him more interesting to me for my mares?

    I don't know if I would send one of my boys or not. It depends on how things are with the test at the time. I understand that they have had, um, "issues" in the past. I also understand they are getting much better. I would not send a three year old, but mine tend to grow slow. http://chronicleforums.com/images/cu...milies/yes.gif

    With my "mare owner" hat on, I have to say that I really like having those scores available to me. They allow me some objective measure of a stallions strengths and weaknesses. If I have a mare that needs a better canter or help in the jumping dept. for example, I can pick one that scores very well in those areas. Since ridabilty and work ethic are very important in my program, those scores must be good. If I am trying for an eventer, those XC scores become very important. You see where I am going with this right?

    Scores are not everything, but neither is performance. But then conformation isn't everything either is it? And bloodlines are no absolute are they? And just how does one discover "heart for the work?"

    My advice - when you discover his choice of career, if he loves one thing and is good, then maybe go performane. If he is pretty good at everything, consider the test.

    SCFarm

    Sorry, no easy answers
    The above post is an opinion, just an opinion. If it were a real live fact it would include supporting links to websites full of people who already agreed with me.

    www.southern-cross-farm.com



  20. #20
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LLDM:
    And just how does one discover "heart for the work?" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    GOLD DUST ???? PAGING GOLD DUST! Isn't this right up her alley??? http://chronicleforums.com/images/cu...milies/lol.gif

    I wish we ALL knew the answer to that one! And hey, if it was easy EVERYONE would be doing it! Difficulty makes the struggle for achievement worthwhile!
    "For God hates utterly
    The bray of bragging tongues."
    Sophocles, Antigone Spoken by the Leader of the Chorus of Theban Elders



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