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  1. #1
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    Default And This Is How You Gamble!

    Big coup at Kilbeggan last Monday night even with all not going according to plan.

    http://www.racingpost.com/news/horse...taylor/733351/

    Terri
    COTH, keeping popcorn growers in business for years.

    "I need your grace to remind me to find my own." Snow Patrol-Chasing Cars. This line reminds me why I have horses.



  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Equilibrium View Post
    Big coup at Kilbeggan last Monday night even with all not going according to plan.

    http://www.racingpost.com/news/horse...taylor/733351/

    Terri
    I'm confused... is this not somehow illegal? I know not about betting works here or there!

    Thanks!
    View my photographs at www.horsephotoguy.zenfolio.com



  3. #3
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    Jul. 19, 2007
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    Default

    I'm fairly sure it would be dubious at best under US law, but obviously they were not betting in the US...



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar. 10, 2006
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    Default

    How is it illegal?
    It's perfectly legal to place a bet with bookmakers in Ireland.
    There's probably as many bookie shops as pubs in some towns. From small independents
    http://harringtonbookmakers.com/imag...%20shop%20.jpg
    to big chains.
    http://blog.angelofailla.com/wp-cont...09/08/bet4.jpg
    http://comps.fotosearch.com/comp/IST...s_~1260702.jpg
    http://www.finfacts.com/artman/uploa...yMay272008.jpg

    Bookmakers offer fixed odds betting, so the idea was to the place the bet in small increments simultaneously so the bookmakers wouldn't get wise and slash the odds.
    The horse still has to win. If there's anything nefarious it would be the horse showing an sudden unexplained improvement, he had finished well down the field in four previous starts this year and then won very easily last Monday. Then again he was giving away weight to all but one of the 15 other runners in the race, so he was hardly under handicapped.

    An even bigger gamble was supposedly pulled off by the Coolmore boys at Royal Ascot a couple back. The grey mare Laddies Poker Two won the Wokingham Stakes after a 610 day layoff. She was backed down from 16/1 to 9/2fav on the day. By all accounts they stung the bookies for $2-3million with that one.
    Of course she still had to beat the other 26 horses in the race.



  5. #5
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    I'm fairly sure it would be dubious at best under US law, but obviously they were not betting in the US...
    You couldn't do it the US because you don't have bookmakers nor fixed odds betting in the US. If you dumped the kind of money they bet into a parimutuel pool you would automatically drop the your own odds, so it would be counter productive under that system of betting.

    What they did was perfectly legal. Pulling one over on the bookies is an age old drama in Ireland, it's what legends are made off.



  6. #6
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    Default

    I think the point is not betting with bookmakers vs parimutuel, it's getting people (who in some cases didn't even speak English or understand how wagering works from the sound of it) to go to the oddsmakers all at the same time to increase the pool.



  7. #7
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    Mar. 10, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    I think the point is not betting with bookmakers vs parimutuel, it's getting people (who in some cases didn't even speak English or understand how wagering works from the sound of it) to go to the oddsmakers all at the same time to increase the pool.
    No, the point very much is fixed odds versus pool betting. There would be absolutely no need whatsoever to use 200 "runners" to place your bets in a parimutuel system. There is absolutely no advantage to it. May as well walk into an OTTB and place the whole 20-30 grand on yourself in one lump sum. Because whether you do it yourself or have 200 people do it for you you will have the exact same effect of "whaling" the pool.
    With fixed odds betting you want to obtain the best odds posssible. It's you against the bookie(s). You try walking into a bookie and placing a bet that large on a horse in the 6:35 Handicap Hurdle on a Monday evening at a small provincial racecourse like Kilbeggan and you would get laughed at. They would smell a rat and wouldn't accept your bet, or if it was one of the the big chains they might make a call to head office and after the guys at the other end of the line finished laughing they's say "sure, tell him he can have €20k on at 1/10".
    By placing many multiple small bets on simultaneuously right before the off you don't give the bookies a chance to respond by slashing the odds.



  8. #8
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    Apr. 4, 2006
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    Default

    A few weeks ago we tried to place a 50 each way bet on a maiden 2yo at our local bookie in Athboy. Told us he couldn't accept it - horse was 25-1 at the time and running in England. So we had to go to the next town where they would accept the bet.

    We weren't trying to pull one over as it was a maiden 2yo running first time. We broke the horse and knew he was doing well so just wanted to have some action. We only got 25-1 at 25 euro each way and 14-1 25 eruo each way in the end. The horse ran 3rd so we had a nice dinner!

    Good thing those boys didn't try my local bookie! For sure they wouldn't have taken the bet

    Many of you may not understand how racing works over here. Constant battle for bookies to pay more into a racing fund for prize money. Currently it's not very much. Purses that were already very crappy (especially in England) for your bread and butter horses got worse. So cashing the gamble to some horse owners is all they live for. As every horse is supposed to run on it's merits at all times, I won't speculate otherwise, though it's tricky. Lets just say sometimes when you go for that "touch" horse has gotten use to a certain running style and the other horses in the same race could be "off" as well. Excuse me, my bad, all horses are off in every race some more than others.

    But with purse money so crap, one good gamble pays for training for the year and some left over to party!

    Terri
    COTH, keeping popcorn growers in business for years.

    "I need your grace to remind me to find my own." Snow Patrol-Chasing Cars. This line reminds me why I have horses.



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