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  1. #1
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    Sep. 5, 2003
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    Default Kudos to positive initiative in the Hunter world

    Maybe the eventing world can take a leaf out of the hunter world book. The support for the hunter derby is really impressive. We are seeing them now in our area, both on a small and large scale. It is actually very tempting to gear my wee horse up for one of these. You go hunters!!!



  2. #2
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    Default

    the support for the hunter derby is two-fold - one it's about time they acted like "hunters" and two it usually comes w/ an attractive monetary prize - there is one this weekend in PA w/ BBQ/exhibitors party and oh yes $10,000 in prize money...



  3. #3
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    What leaf would that be? Eventing derbies for big money? Which would do exactly what for OUR sport?

    Not sure I read all the elation here. What's positive about just another opportunity for the professional hunter riders to keep horses in training, continuing the H/J Business Model in perpetuity - because they have to trot one fence, and jump real brush or split rail decor? (The exercises are eventing - novice level, altho the fences are higher.) Big whoop.

    No disrespect meant, but I fail to see the wonder in this other than the money attraction - now that is worthy of respect. How do they get that cash.
    "Passion, though a bad regulator, is a powerful spring." -- Emerson
    www.eventhorse.wordpress.com



  4. #4
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gottagrey View Post
    the support for the hunter derby is two-fold - one it's about time they acted like "hunters" and two it usually comes w/ an attractive monetary prize - there is one this weekend in PA w/ BBQ/exhibitors party and oh yes $10,000 in prize money...
    It has nothing to do with acting like a Hunter.

    It's just the equivalent of a GP class for the jumper riders. More to support a dying division for the Pros than anything else. 3'6" and above Green, Regular and Conformation hunter entries have been declining for years.
    And the entry fees are so high that it excludes most owners. The class is not relevant to most Hunter exhibitors.

    Because of the above issues there is now a lower level version of the Derby with lower height fences, less money, less entry fees and points at the zone level only.



  5. #5
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    Apr. 12, 2002
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    Default

    And after reading a post over on the H/J forum, maybe the H/J world can take a leaf from eventing and start giving DR penalties to riders, mostly jumpers admittedly. No, the DR penalty is not the greatest thing in the world and has issues, but holy crap have you seen some of those rides?
    Rhode Islands are red;
    North Hollands are blue.
    Sorry my thoroughbreds
    Stomped on your roo. Originally Posted by pAin't_Misbehavin' :



  6. #6
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    Default

    I found it interesting that there was some discontent folks in the hunter world and they came up with what seems like a viable alternative. The one that we had locally had both pros and ammies competing against each other and it was very well received. Folks from the jumper world, eventing world and hunter world competed. Love people crossing over between disciplines. Opportunity for learning

    OK.......off to blow some sunshine elsewhere



  7. #7
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    May. 9, 2007
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    Default

    I think it sounds like a great opportunity. I believe it would be wonderful to have classes similar and more affordable for other levels.



  8. #8
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    Jan. 23, 2000
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    Virginia
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    Default

    I think it's great, and I would love to enter one with my horse. It's nice to see something come along for the upper levels of hunters and something that is closer to the roots of the hunters than another course of outside, diagonal, and great that there are options above 2'6".
    ---
    They're small hearts.



  9. #9
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    Jan. 17, 2008
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    Default

    I too am failing to see what the eventing world could learn.

    FWIW though I love it! I think it is a step in the right direction for the hunter world. I still would like to see it favour a more old school type of trip/horse but that's just my opinion. I do love that Rumba though....what a horse!
    "look deep into his pedigree. Look for the name of a one-of-a-kind horse who lends to his kin a fierce tenacity, a will of iron, a look of eagles. Look & know that Slew is still very much with us."



  10. #10
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    Mar. 12, 2006
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    Default

    I think that the hunter problem was a lot simpler to solve- classes and shows were getting stale. The new format spiced things up and still works in with ye olde 2'6 line diagonal. It was just adding an extra special showcase class.

    It seems like eventing problems are all around more complex- I think it is harder to solve issues like safety and a lack of land than to brainstorm up a fun new class.



  11. #11
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by S A McKee View Post
    It's just the equivalent of a GP class for the jumper riders. More to support a dying division for the Pros than anything else. 3'6" and above Green, Regular and Conformation hunter entries have been declining for years.
    And the entry fees are so high that it excludes most owners. The class is not relevant to most Hunter exhibitors.
    Actually, the Hunter Derbies have increased interest in hunters and have lead to INCREASES in horses competing in the higher divisions.

    RE: Irrelevancy of Hunter Derbies to most hunter exhibitors, just like the big Grands Prix are not relevant to most jumper exhibitors, there are still the Minis Prix that ARE relevant to a much larger jumper population. The same applies to the Hunter Derbies; while the big ones may not be relevant, the smaller versions ARE.

    I think the point here is that the hunters realized that new life needed to be breathed into their sport, and they found a way to do it. Eventing has been floundering a bit since the introduction of the short format; I think this was the OPs way of saying, "Look, if the hunters can do it, there's no reason the eventers can't do it."
    Founder, Higher Standards Leather Care Addicts Anonymous
    Capitalization is the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse and helping your uncle jack off a horse.



  12. #12

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    "Eventing has been floundering a bit since the introduction of the short format; I think this was the OPs way of saying, "Look, if the hunters can do it, there's no reason the eventers can't do it."

    I very much agree with this. I'm running an eventing Derby in two weeks. The response has been double what I anticipated. Yes, we are lucky enough to have a wonderful sponsor and some good prizes, but I honestly don't think this is the main reason for the apparent popularity. I think people are looking for new venues in which to have fun with their horses with less pressure than recognized events and at less cost.

    I'm a fan of the Derby concept, and I'll even go so far as to say that currently, where the philosophy of course design has seemed to tend toward "show jumping without walls," eventing Derbies are going the other way toward cross country with walls.

    On a personal note, I've organized events at the highest level - and I have to say, organizing a Derby is one hell of a lot easier and less stressful for me and for the wonderful volunteers who make it all work.

    Flutie



  13. #13
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    Default

    I guess the questions is
    "Which specific problem is it that you are trying to solve?"
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by flutie1 View Post
    "Eventing has been floundering a bit since the introduction of the short format; I think this was the OPs way of saying, "Look, if the hunters can do it, there's no reason the eventers can't do it."

    I very much agree with this. I'm running an eventing Derby in two weeks. The response has been double what I anticipated. Yes, we are lucky enough to have a wonderful sponsor and some good prizes, but I honestly don't think this is the main reason for the apparent popularity. I think people are looking for new venues in which to have fun with their horses with less pressure than recognized events and at less cost.

    I'm a fan of the Derby concept, and I'll even go so far as to say that currently, where the philosophy of course design has seemed to tend toward "show jumping without walls," eventing Derbies are going the other way toward cross country with walls.

    On a personal note, I've organized events at the highest level - and I have to say, organizing a Derby is one hell of a lot easier and less stressful for me and for the wonderful volunteers who make it all work.

    Flutie
    Yes, event derbies are very different from the hunter derbies -- not really similar except that they are held within a spectator's area. I too like the EVENT derby idea and wish there were more of them in my area in the summer -- the heat makes a three phase so disgustingly difficult. An event derby would be loads more fun.

    But the hunter derbies are a different animal. The jumps and courses are not really like an event derby course, and don't forget the subjective judging....

    Wish Flutie would come out here and get one going!
    "Passion, though a bad regulator, is a powerful spring." -- Emerson
    www.eventhorse.wordpress.com



  15. #15
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pattnic View Post
    Actually, the Hunter Derbies have increased interest in hunters and have lead to INCREASES in horses competing in the higher divisions.

    RE: Irrelevancy of Hunter Derbies to most hunter exhibitors, just like the big Grands Prix are not relevant to most jumper exhibitors, there are still the Minis Prix that ARE relevant to a much larger jumper population. The same applies to the Hunter Derbies; while the big ones may not be relevant, the smaller versions ARE.

    I think the point here is that the hunters realized that new life needed to be breathed into their sport, and they found a way to do it. Eventing has been floundering a bit since the introduction of the short format; I think this was the OPs way of saying, "Look, if the hunters can do it, there's no reason the eventers can't do it."
    Well, no. There have been no increases in 3'6" Professional divisions. In fact, USHJA is working on possible solutions like eliminating a green 'year' and replacing it with some sort of rolling year. Quite a few changes on their web site.
    There are some horses showing in the International Derbies that don't fit anyplace else. Not enough scope for jumpers, maybe not a good enough mover for the traditional hunter divisions. Those horse have found a home.

    Whay do you mean by the smaller versions? The National Zone only classes? They are new this year and have had at least one rule change already.

    The Pros came up with the International Derby classes. It works for many of them. However other pros have complaints about the classes and how points are awarded ( in multiple divisions ). If the points change it will be interesting to see what happens.

    There are about 250 horses with International Derby points many of which have only done one Derby class and there are over 8000 horses showing in the Hunter Divisions. Yeah, it's really relevant.



  16. #16

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    "... don't forget the subjective judging...."

    We take care of this aspect in the dressage phase!

    Our course actually will be very much like a hunter Derby course because the venue is basically a h/j one - but we'll make it work!



  17. #17
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    There are about 250 horses with International Derby points many of which have only done one Derby class and there are over 8000 horses showing in the Hunter Divisions. Yeah, it's really relevant.
    Yes, but it's something a lot of people are excited about and a lot of people are making into a goal. The fact that it's both bringing forth a dialog and piqueing a lot of interest, along with the fact that it draws in some spectators, makes it actually quite "relevant." There's a good chance it will grow.

    In fact, I know one of our local series is planning to offer a 3' derby at their year end show, which I hope to enter in support of shows offering "different" options. They offered an outside course last year and no one would enter it with me. I'm hoping that this year, due to the derby dialog, more folks will be interested in participating. I wish it were 3'6", but it's a local series and will be fun regardless of height. If more shows do this, the idea will grow and the sport will evolve.
    ---
    They're small hearts.



  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by pattnic View Post
    Eventing has been floundering a bit since the introduction of the short format; I think this was the OPs way of saying, "Look, if the hunters can do it, there's no reason the eventers can't do it."
    In what way is eventing floundering?



  19. #19
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    Sep. 18, 2004
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    Default No disrespect

    I think Eventing Derbies will be the death of eventing as we know it. Add prize money and professionals will flock to it. As Flutie said, its easier to organize, less costly and its fun. Why wouldn't more organizers decide to bail out of the more costly version we have today and offer ED's?

    Losing the Long Format changed Eventing dramatically, adding ED's will do the same. I'm not sure, given the complexities of running a recognized event, land and the other issues, what we now have as Eventing will survive.

    Be careful for what you wish!



  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trixie View Post
    In fact, I know one of our local series is planning to offer a 3' derby at their year end show, which I hope to enter in support of shows offering "different" options. They offered an outside course last year and no one would enter it with me. I'm hoping that this year, due to the derby dialog, more folks will be interested in participating. I wish it were 3'6", but it's a local series and will be fun regardless of height. If more shows do this, the idea will grow and the sport will evolve.
    Which show?
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



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