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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 1999
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
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    35,752

    Default long-term use of dex for autoimmne horse - sad update #27

    I will not give any details of who/where/when, so don't ask

    let's say you have a horse who has long-term diarrhea, and after a zillion things have been tried, including all sorts of dietary changes, pro/prebiotics, you name it, it's found that dex, low dose, is what stops it. On dex = normal poop, off dex = diarrhea again.

    It's been deemed an auto-immune issue and the horse *may* need to be on long-term low-dose dex.

    Have you found another cause for this? Have you found another fix?

    It just worries me that long-term use of a steroid, even at as low a dose as possible, is just asking for trouble down the road, and I'd hate for the "cure" to be worse than the problem.

    Absolutely NO berrating of anyone in this situation. It is not my horse, I have decided I want to find out what I can to maybe offer suggestions to this person and their vet(s), so experiences and possible suggestions only.

    Please, and thank you
    Last edited by JB; Aug. 10, 2010 at 09:26 AM.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan. 31, 2003
    Posts
    18,472

    Default

    I would try prednilosone (sp?) for anything long term.
    "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
    ---
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec. 12, 2005
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, SC
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    3,122

    Default

    JB, has any other steriods been tried? or was Dex the first thing they tried and it worked so they wanted to stick to it?
    If i'm posting on Coth, it's either raining so I can't ride or it's night time and I can't sleep.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 1999
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    Greensboro, NC
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    Default

    Ah, why didn't I think of prednisolone?? Thanks ET!

    Catersun, I think no other steroid was tried but I'll find out.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  5. #5
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    Jan. 31, 2003
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    Default

    Ok, other thoughts - did they try the horse on metrodozinole? Check for salmonella shedding? Of course, for tapes and power pack? No or ??? Deworming history? Worm damage can cause permanent runs
    "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
    ---
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 1999
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
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    Default

    Forgot - yes, all the deworming has been dealt with afaik, but I'll double check. I've been following this horse for a while, offering all the suggestions I was able.

    I've gone back to read the history on him. Here's what's been done:
    - metronidazole (man, is that nasty stuff or what LOL)
    - banamine with the metro, both for 10 days
    - negative for salmonella, giardia
    - originally off his feed a bit, had some edema in his chest and belly
    - protein levels were checked due to edema - apparently he is losing some (?)
    - also tried a compound drug I know nothing about - Enrofloxacin
    - then doxy and dex

    Sorry I didn't post that earlier - forgot I had all that in written form.

    It's been weaning off the dex that the diarrhea has returned.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar. 24, 2007
    Posts
    1,807

    Default

    My boarders horse had chronic edema and sores on her belly and hind legs.....they suspected and autoimmune disease of some sort..........they used low dose dex to controll the sypmptoms while they looked for reasons......they tried allergy shots as she did have some allergies......but that didn't work....blood work was done......biopsy of the sores all came back negative.......we got to the point once where we had her almost completely weaned off and it flared back up in the fall....which was when this whole thing erupted in the first place......it was always better in the summer than the fall/winter. It eventually got to the point that she got cushings not sure if it was dex induced or she actually aquired that on her own......after a 2 year battle and her slowly going down hill she was laid to rest this past January.

    Dalemma



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep. 7, 2009
    Location
    Lexington, KY
    Posts
    17,780

    Default

    Enrofloxacin is an antibiotic in the class with Cipro or Levaquin. Sounds like they thought it was an infection.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct. 11, 2002
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    4,643

    Default

    What about immune boosters?

    Is chronic diarrhea a result of gut inflamation? Is that why the steroids might work? (Thankfully chronic diarrhea is not in my experience vault).

    Wild idea here, but I have read a lot about how Cetyl-M works as it is currenty helping two of my horses, and it does target autoimmune issues and inflamation.
    Comprehensive Equestrian Site Planning and Facility Design
    www.lynnlongplanninganddesign.com



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct. 3, 2002
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    it's not the edge of the earth, but you can see it from here
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    Default

    losing protein & edema sounds like kidney/liver/heart

    Was the horse ever starved?

    The edema is what really sticks out to me.

    Worm damage. Organ damage/failure.
    InnisFailte Pinto Sporthorses & Coloured Cobs
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Bits are like cats, what's one more? (Petstorejunkie)



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb. 6, 2000
    Location
    MA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pintopiaffe View Post
    losing protein & edema sounds like kidney/liver/heart

    Was the horse ever starved?

    The edema is what really sticks out to me.

    Worm damage. Organ damage/failure.
    Losing protein is gut inflammation.
    Edema is the result of low protein and decreased oncotic pressure.
    "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

    ...just settin' on the Group W bench.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb. 6, 2000
    Location
    MA
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    Default

    If you have a TCVM practitioner nearby, you might want to have them take a look at this horse.
    Si Miao San might be an appropriate formula.
    "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

    ...just settin' on the Group W bench.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb. 8, 2002
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    Default

    I realize this is simply treating the symptom (diarrhea) but what about something like Biosponge? How long has the horse had diarrhea, btw?



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan. 31, 2003
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    Default

    Liver panel run?
    "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
    ---
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 1999
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
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    Default

    Ghazzu, what is TCVM? The horse is in NC if that makes a difference.

    I do not believe this horse was ever starved but will try to find out for sure.

    Biosponge - I know that was mentioned but am not sure if it was tried.

    Liver panel - I believe that checked fine, but will double check.

    I believe this all started around the beginning of May.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb. 6, 2000
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    MA
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    Default

    Sorry--Traditional Chinese Veterinary Medicine.
    Many acupuncture trained DVMs have some Chinese herbal education as well as needling.
    "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

    ...just settin' on the Group W bench.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar. 24, 2007
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    1,807

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pintopiaffe View Post
    losing protein & edema sounds like kidney/liver/heart

    Was the horse ever starved?

    The edema is what really sticks out to me.

    Worm damage. Organ damage/failure.
    Not sure if your question was directed at the OP or my storey of using dex long term for an autoimmune disorder.....it seems like they had similar symptoms....in my boarders case there was no diahrrea.

    My boarders horse was never starved quite the opposite she was always an easy keeper and the owner struggled to keep her from getting fat.........the horse was 10 years old when it was put down.

    Blood work was done no issues with kidney or liver functions.

    It was supspected that she may have been suffering from Pemphigus foliaceus.

    Dalemma



  18. #18
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    Oct. 3, 2002
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    Default

    You know I HAVE to ask this...

    Have they ever removed ALL SOY?

    Gone to just grass hay for a couple weeks?

    Then added whole grains one at a time??

    Sorry. But I *had* to.
    InnisFailte Pinto Sporthorses & Coloured Cobs
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Bits are like cats, what's one more? (Petstorejunkie)



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Sep. 8, 2007
    Posts
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    Default

    I'm quite certain since they live in NC that this has already been addressed, but has sand accumulaton been ruled out? If either of my guys ever picked up a sand load they would get diarrhea. A course of Sand Clear did the trick.

    In response to the original question I do know two horses who are on very low dose dex long term for terrible skin issues that only clear up while on the dex. It is also suspected that they have an over-active immune system. One is young, one is very old. Neither one has had any issues (knock on wood)!



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 1999
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
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    Default

    PP - I am fairly certain they went back to a hay-only diet early on, as that was one of my first suggestions. I don't recall if soy has ever been in the picture, but I'll check

    dwblover - yes, sand has been addressed

    But, not every place in NC has to worry about sand
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



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