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  1. #601
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    Quote Originally Posted by lily04 View Post
    To anyone that would like to know, horses have been shipped from ECR to various racetracks specifically to be euthanized. This saves MG the $185 it costs to have them pickd up at the farm. This was confirmed by the state vet.
    Seems to me that Michael Gill IS the Michael Vick of horse racing.
    Interesting thread. It has only taken me a few hours to read through all of this. Might I say WOW!!!



  2. #602
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    It just doesnt make sense that someone would ship a
    horse INTO a track to have it killed and dumped.....
    Last edited by brightskyfarm; Dec. 15, 2010 at 04:03 PM.
    IN GOD WE TRUST
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  3. #603
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    again......... many of these statements arent making
    sense
    Last edited by brightskyfarm; Dec. 15, 2010 at 04:03 PM.
    IN GOD WE TRUST
    OTTB's ready to show/event/jumpers. Track ponies for perfect trail partners.
    http://www.horseville.com/php/search...=1&ssid=057680



  4. #604
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    Default Ask Dick Hertz

    is there is a standard for this?
    Last edited by brightskyfarm; Dec. 15, 2010 at 04:03 PM.
    IN GOD WE TRUST
    OTTB's ready to show/event/jumpers. Track ponies for perfect trail partners.
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  5. #605
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    brightsky, is questioning the ethics of euthanasia your way of telling us you're stepping up to take on a Gill horse, more specifically, a Gill horse which is only suitable to live life as a companion and which will require special supplements to stay comfortably pasture sound? Because this is the issue all of us involved in TB retirement are all too aware of: there are not enough homes out there for the broken down retirees.

    I'm sure this may vary from track to track, but in regards to catastrophic injuries incurred during a race (I did not ask about random backside incidents), I have been told that the attending veterinarian has the authority to administer drugs and/or euthanize an animal without even asking permission from the stewards, owners, or trainers.



  6. #606
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    [QUOTE=brightskyfarm;4671433]
    Quote Originally Posted by AppJumpr08 View Post
    If the only other option is to put them on a truck to Canada? Absolutely.

    That is never the Only ever option ... I know Im stepping
    into the flame here............
    but, I see the direction of the thread as some very serious accusations..
    involving, not only a trainer/owner,
    but a vet,
    track management
    the whole chain......

    and would really like some ......(something).....
    that this type of activity isnt happening .

    It just doesnt make sense that someone would ship a
    horse INTO a track to have it killed and dumped.....

    My point was that it IS the only other option that Gill uses for his broken down, not comfortable as pasture pet horses.
    I believe he avoids groups like the TRF and CANTER as retirement avenues because the horses he is finished racing are often too broken to even be comfortable as pasture pets.


    Of course *I* know there are other options. Like not running the horses into the ground, like finding responsible happy retirement homes for them before they are completely broken, like donating some of your mega amounts of purse earnings to a retirement group to take your deserving retirees, but that is not what Gill does. He euths them, or ships them to Canada.
    And if he is going to euth them, why wouldn't he ship them to the track to A) Save Money, and B) not have to dispose of the body? If that is in fact what he has done, and it does save him money, it makes perfect sense from a business perspective.

    And Barnfairy is right, the retirement groups are OVERFLOWING with horses who can do no more than be pasture pets... Just because Mrs. Adamo is helping to rehome the soundest horses doesn't mean Gill isn't dumping the lame ones as cheaply and quickly as possible.


    Edited to add: I don't blame the vets at all. I'm not accusing them of anything. They are euthing lame horses. Putting them out of their discomfort. There is nothing wrong with that.
    -Jessica



  7. #607
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pronzini View Post
    Meredith, given the tenor of some of the posting, do you think posting door to door directions to his farm is really a good thing?
    Oh.. sorry, I didn't really think that people would go burn it down or anything!

    If you google "Micheal Gill + horse farm in PA" or something similar you can find it easily or if you just google "Elk Creek Ranch"

    If people think I should take down the directions I will



  8. #608
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    Dont quote me om this, but I believe the TRF now requires a $3000 dollar fee to retire a horse with them... I'm sure MG could afford that, since he claims to have made so much money at this game.



  9. #609
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    Here is the Thoro. Retirement Foundation's protocol for retiring a horse with them (from their web site):

    1.Horses at the racetrack or at risk of going to the slaughterhouse are given first priority.
    2.All applicants will be expected to give an annual donation to the TRF in the amount deemed appropriate by the committee.
    3.Except in unusual circumstances, former racehorses, now sport horses or show horses, are only accepted if they can go directly to an adoptive home without spending time at a TRF farm.
    4.Broodmares are only accepted if they have a racing record and the owner shows financial reasons why the broodmare cannot live out her life on the breeding farm, unless they qualify under category 1.
    5.Horses must be pasture sound or potentially pasture sound.
    6.Stallions must be gelded.



  10. #610
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    Quote Originally Posted by DickHertz View Post
    How can that be answered when the track owner in question published and anti-slaughter policy on the overnight for over a month last year and when it was brought to their attention that Brandon Jenkins sold a horse to a meat man, they came out and said (sic) "well, we really don't have an official anti-slaugther policy".
    Funny, you seem to have a self-proclaimed handle on everything else going on at Penn. Oh well.



  11. #611
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    Quote Originally Posted by DickHertz View Post
    How can that be answered when the track owner in question published and anti-slaughter policy on the overnight for over a month last year and when it was brought to their attention that Brandon Jenkins sold a horse to a meat man, they came out and said (sic) "well, we really don't have an official anti-slaugther policy".
    Don't throw Brandon Jenkins under the bus. He isn't the only one who sold a horse to the "meat man". Many others at many other tracks over many years.



  12. #612
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    The question was: what is the track's policy on euthanizing horses/ON grounds, NOT race nights...? what is the policy/standards of euthanizing and disposing on track property ?... someone must have an accounting of such things... the horses... what/who determines this as an allowable option?

    the claim has been made that horses were shipped IN specifically for euthanization
    Last edited by brightskyfarm; Dec. 15, 2010 at 04:03 PM.
    IN GOD WE TRUST
    OTTB's ready to show/event/jumpers. Track ponies for perfect trail partners.
    http://www.horseville.com/php/search...=1&ssid=057680



  13. #613
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    I don't think DickHertz is throwing Brandon Jenkins under the bus, we all know what goes on- his point is that Penn published a "zero tolerance policy" after pressure from certain people, and they have not and will not enforce it. They have not offered the horsemen any alternatives, like Turning for Home or the FLTAP. Jenkins is certainly not the only one, but there was no arguing with the paper trail in that case, and Penn then back-tracked. I personally wish they would remove that sham of a policy, bc far too many horses have gone underground since then with no hope of being purchased at any auction. The clueless people that insisted on this policy are nowhere to be seen now either. What a joke.
    Last edited by BeverlyAStrauss; Apr. 22, 2010 at 05:07 PM.



  14. #614
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeverlyAStrauss View Post
    I don't think DickHertz is throwing Brandon Jenkins under the bus, we all know what goes on- his point is that Penn published a "zero tolerance policy" after pressure from certain people, and they have not and will not enforce it. They have not offered the horsemen any alternatives, like Turning for Home or the FLTAP. Jenkins is certainly not the only one, but there was no arguing with the paper trail in that case, and Penn then backtracked. I personally wish they would remove that sham of a policy, bc far too many horses have gone underground since then with no hope of being purchased at any auction. The clueless people that insisted on this policy are nowhere to be seen now either. What a joke.
    All so true. Thanks for posting this.



  15. #615
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    What Beverly said.
    -Jessica



  16. #616
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    Quote Originally Posted by brightskyfarm View Post
    The question was: what is the track's policy on euthanizing horses/ON grounds, NOT race nights...? what is the policy/standards of euthanizing and disposing on track property ?... someone must have an accounting of such things... the horses... what/who determines this as an allowable option?

    the claim has been made that horses were shipped IN specifically for euthanization

    I guess I don't see why this would be an ETHICAL issue. A business issue as far as cost to the track for body disposal? Sure. But I don't see the difference between a vet driving out to a farm to euth a horse, or having the owner meet the vet at the track or clinic to have the same thing done.
    Bottom line, if the owner and vet deems it appropriate to euthanize a horse, than it should be put down. It sure beats dumping the same horse at an auction. There are far worse fates for an animal than to have a needle that ends it's pain.

    What exactly is your point? Because I feel like I'm missing something...
    -Jessica



  17. #617
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    [QUOTE=AppJumpr08;4672168]I guess I don't see why this would be an ETHICAL issue. A business issue as far as cost to the track for body disposal? Sure. But I don't see the difference between a vet driving out to a farm to euth a horse, or having the owner meet the vet at the track or clinic to have the same thing done.
    Bottom line, if the owner and vet deems it appropriate to euthanize a horse, than it should be put down. It sure beats dumping the same horse at an auction. There are far worse fates for an animal than to have a needle that ends it's pain.

    QUOTE]

    Absolutely!



  18. #618
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    *Its being suggested that the track is backing this
    outlet by using its resources to assist?
    Last edited by brightskyfarm; Dec. 15, 2010 at 04:04 PM.
    IN GOD WE TRUST
    OTTB's ready to show/event/jumpers. Track ponies for perfect trail partners.
    http://www.horseville.com/php/search...=1&ssid=057680



  19. #619
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    Quote Originally Posted by brightskyfarm View Post
    The point:

    *I am directly challenging the statement that horses were shipping in to be euthanized.

    *If horseman/owners/rescues/ ARE using this euthanasia *excuse* as a cop-out to spending time, money and other resources to re-home a horse, yes, then I directly challenge the ethics of that.

    *Its being suggested that the track is backing this
    outlet by using its resources to assist?

    If authorities went to a(any) farm and found a pit full of horses, they'd be quickly asking for an accounting I assure you that.

    I personally wouldn't mind if they euthanized every single one of Gill's horses right then and there. At least they would be the only ones to die and there would be no worries of them taking their riders with them which if you think back is the entire reasoning behind this thread PLUS it would spare them the nightmare of slaughter. It never was about the horses, it was trying to keep the horses from killing the people around them.
    And no, if you went to a farm and found a pit full of healthy weight horses with trimmed hooves that were humanely euthanized the authorities whomever that may be would not and could not do a thing about it.



  20. #620
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    Personally I wish tracks would offer a ship-in euthanasia option. I don't think making the decision to euthanize an animal should ever be easy, however, I do think finding an outlet to do so affordably should be. If low cost euthanasia was business as usual that would take away one of the arguments for slaughter.

    I will never understand the people who can't bear the thought of euthanising their unsound animal, and yet have no compunction about giving away that animal for free to a stranger -- horses end up in far worse fates that way than by the needle.

    Before you go questioning someone else's decision to euthanize an animal, ask yourself how many unsound horses have you successfully rehomed.



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