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  1. #1
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    Default New Coalition makes repeal (update)part of their policy plan

    Last edited by Equibrit; May. 20, 2010 at 04:54 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Does finding ways through the loopholes add to the excitement of the hunt, I wonder? Or maybe there are some people who actually prefer hunting as it is now but can't quite admit it even to themselves?

    Honest questions.
    Founder of the People Who Prefer COTH Over FB Clique
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wellspotted View Post
    Does finding ways through the loopholes add to the excitement of the hunt, I wonder? Or maybe there are some people who actually prefer hunting as it is now but can't quite admit it even to themselves?

    Honest questions.
    As I understand it from friends in the UK, the answer is no on both counts.

    An honest question for you: Do you believe the rights of minorities are important? If you don't recognize hunting as a minority right, you ought to recognize horse ownership as a minority right, because we are indeed in the minority. I presume you like horses or you would not be on this board- so if one fine day the majority in the U.S. decides that horse ownership shouldn't be allowed, are you ready to give in to the majority?

    I'm not. And the issue is exactly the same for hunting as for owning horses.



  4. #4
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    Oh, get off your high horse. I was just asking an honest question.
    Founder of the People Who Prefer COTH Over FB Clique
    People Who Hate to Rush to Kill Wildlife Clique!
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  5. #5
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    That would wholly depend on the definition of "honest", and whether you believe that there has been a change in the way that hunting is conducted.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...icy-guide.html
    from the "Coalition plan for government: a policy-by-policy guide"

    "Environment, food and rural affairs
    Give the House of Commons a free vote on repealing the Hunting Act."
    Last edited by Equibrit; May. 20, 2010 at 04:59 PM.
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  6. #6
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    What an interesting development.

    Equibrit, correct me if I'm wrong. It was my understanding that the Hunting Act ended up being such a clusterfu** of bad legislation that it banned nothing (except coursing??). Not loopholes, just not a ban; nor was the end result intended to be a ban.

    It ended up being more of a political victory; an "in your face" type of legislation. Retribution.

    It did appear to be a focal point for class hatred (though foxhunters in the UK are as diverse as in the US). And of course, lots and lots of violence by hunt saboteurs; often directed at the hounds, children or horses. Foxhunters weren't always content to let themselves be brutalized or terrorized; and some fought back. There was one? conviction for violating the Act by a huntsman, I think?

    Basically a clusterfu** with lots of very left wing IMF protester/anarchist types making a living being a hunt sab.

    How many millions of pounds were spent, and continue to be spent on this legislation? If nothing else; it's fiscally irresponsible. Maybe if the Act was repealed the hunt sabs wouldn't be able to terrorize people anymore. My God - in the US those people would have been put in prison long ago. Thank God we have stronger property rights laws in the US.

    250,000 folks hunting on Boxing Day. Nice to see such a high number.

    It will be interesting to see what unfolds.



  7. #7
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    The story in the link doesn't state that the coalition has made a repeal of the hunting ban part of their poicy plan.

    The new PM has pledge to allow a vote in the house of Commons on whether or not to allow a free vote on the hunting ban.

    Even if they have a free vote in the House, there is no guarantee that it will pass. Since the Conservatives have a minority in the House, for the ban to be repealed it would require memebers of Labour and the Liberal Democrats to vote for a repeal. In addition, in the past several Conservative MPs have voted for the hunting ban.

    The ban is far from over.



  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wellspotted View Post
    Oh, get off your high horse. I was just asking an honest question.
    And you got an honest answer.

    I'm not on my high horse this week, he's got a bruised hoof. Am exclusively riding the 14.2 hand model in the fleet.



  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravencrest_Camp View Post
    The story in the link doesn't state that the coalition has made a repeal of the hunting ban part of their poicy plan.

    The new PM has pledge to allow a vote in the house of Commons on whether or not to allow a free vote on the hunting ban.

    Even if they have a free vote in the House, there is no guarantee that it will pass. Since the Conservatives have a minority in the House, for the ban to be repealed it would require memebers of Labour and the Liberal Democrats to vote for a repeal. In addition, in the past several Conservative MPs have voted for the hunting ban.

    The ban is far from over.
    Yes it does.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...icy-guide.html
    from the "Coalition plan for government: a policy-by-policy guide"


    The exact words used in the policy plan were quoted in the link above. Namely these words;

    "Environment, food and rural affairs
    Give the House of Commons a free vote on repealing the Hunting Act."

    And just to clarify things; the coalition have a majority in the House - that is how come they are the Gubmint. The coalition is made up of Conservatives and Lib Dems, who negotiated this policy plan before taking over. If the plan comes unraveled the government falls.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Equibrit View Post
    Yes it does.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...icy-guide.html
    from the "Coalition plan for government: a policy-by-policy guide"


    The exact words used in the policy plan were quoted in the link above. Namely these words;

    "Environment, food and rural affairs
    Give the House of Commons a free vote on repealing the Hunting Act."

    And just to clarify things; the coalition have a majority in the House - that is how come they are the Gubmint. The coalition is made up of Conservatives and Lib Dems, who negotiated this policy plan before taking over. If the plan comes unraveled the government falls.
    Well when I read this from the article:

    Mr Cameron has had to water down the pledge slightly after coalition talks. MPs will now be given the opportunity later this year to vote on a parliamentary motion on holding a free vote on the ban. The free vote will only take place if a majority of MPs back the motion.
    It was far from clear last night whether MPs would choose to scrap the ban.
    If the Conservatives had won an outright majority, it was expected that the ban would be lifted. However, only three Labour MPs and 18 Lib Dems have previously voted for foxhunting to be legal. Several Tory MPs also backed the ban.


    I gathered that it is coalition policy to vote on a motion calling for a free vote.

    In practical terms, the Conservatives are not going to let the coalition unravel and risk loosing power for the sake of repealing the hunting ban. I am not in the UK, but I can't imagine that is a hill worth dying on for Cameron.

    What would be even worse than the ban, would be to have a free vote held, and to have MPs vote to keep the ban in place.



  11. #11
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    The complete article.
    Please note section headed Environment, food and rural affairs
    Current position in the Commons; http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/elec...f-Commons.html



    Coalition plan for government: a policy-by-policy guide
    David Cameron and Nick Clegg have launched their coalition programme for government. Here's a breakdown of the key policies promises ageed by the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats.

    By Heidi Blake
    Published: 7:29PM BST 20 May 2010

    Clegg and Cameron: Mr Clegg, who spoke first as Mr Cameron sat in the audience, said the Government wanted to be defined by ''freedom, fairness and responsibility''

    Banking
    Reform the banking system, introduce a levy on banks and establish an independent commission to examine the Lib Dem policy of breaking up retail and investment banking. Curb bonuses in the financial sector and consider a major loan guarantee scheme to ensure the flow of funds to small businesses. Establish a free national financial advice service and a single agency to tackle white collar crime. Joining or preparing to join the euro ruled out for the duration of the agreement.

    Business
    "One-in-one-out rule” for business regulations with “sunset clauses” to ensure all rules are regularly reviewed. Simplify corporate tax system and reduce headline rates. End the ban on social tenants starting businesses at home, award 25 per cent of Government contracts to small firms, and make rate relief for small businesses automatic. Part-privatise Royal Mail but keep the Post Office network in public ownership with the possibility of creating a Post Office Bank. Replace Regional Development Agencies with “Local Enterprise Partnerships” between councils and businesses.

    Civil liberties
    Introduce a Freedom Bill. Scrap ID cards, the National Identity Register, the ContactPoint database of 11 million children and the next generation of biometric passports. Outlaw fingerprinting of children in school without parental permission and place protections on the DNA database. Restore rights to non-violent protest, regulate CCTV, and end the storage of internet and email records without good reason. Set up a commission to consider replacing the Human Rights act with a British Bill of Rights.

    Communities and local government
    Freeze council tax in England for at least a year and create directly-elected mayors in the 12 largest English cities. Devolve power and financial autonomy to local government. Reform the planning system to hand more powers to councils and neighbourhood groups and support shared-ownership schemes. Require continuous improvements to energy efficiency of new housing. Provide protection against aggressive bailiffs and ensure repossession is always a last resort. Ban the use of the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act by councils without a court order and cut local government inspection.

    Consumer protection
    Give financial regulators new powers to ban excessive interest rates on all credit cards and introduce seven-day cooling off period for store cards. Enforce honesty in food labelling, ensure energy bills include details about how to move to the cheapest tariff, and extend support to "off-grid" sustainable energy consumers. Consider measures to end unfair bank charges and give Post Office account holders direct debit discounts.

    Crime and Policing
    Reduce "time-wasting bureaucracy". Amend health and safety laws to clear the way for "commonsense policing" and give members of the public more legal backing when apprehending criminals or defending themselves against intruders. Make police more accountable through oversight by a directly elected individual. Make hospitals share non-confidential information about where gun and knife crime is happening. Ban the sale of alcohol below cost price and double the maximum fine for under-age sales to £20,000. Promote better recording of hate crimes against homosexual and disabled people. Introduce a system of temporary bans on "legal highs" while health issues are considered. Review the Extradition Act to make sure it is being applied fairly.

    Culture, Olympics, media and sport
    Maintain an independent BBC but give the National Audit Office full access to accounts to ensure transparency. Support the 2018 World Cup bid and ensure a "safe and successful" Olympic games in 2012. Reform the National Lottery so that more money goes into sport, the arts and heritage, and use cash in dormant betting accounts to improve local sports facilities. Support the creation of an annual Olympic-style schools sport tournament and cut red tape to encourage the performance of more live music. Ensure the rapid roll-out of superfast broadband across the country.

    Defence
    Maintain the nuclear deterrent, but scrutinise the renewal of Trident to ensure value for money. Cut Ministry of Defence spending by at least a quarter while doubling the operational allowance for Armed Forces personnel serving in Afghanistan. Ensure service personnel get more rest and provide education and employment opportunities for ex-personnel. Provide more support for veterans' mental health needs. Review rules on awarding medals. Ensure that injured personnel are treated in dedicated military wards.

    Deficit reduction
    Tackle the bulk of the deficit through spending cuts rather than tax rises. Stop the rise in National Insurance. Make "modest" cuts of £6bn to "non-frontline services" in 2010/11. Launch a full Spending Review this autumn. Reduce spending on the Child Tax Fund and tax credits for higher earners. Cut the number and cost of quangos.

    Energy and climate change
    Abolish Home Information Packs, but retain energy certificates for house sales. Urge EU to cut emissions by 30 per cent by 2020. Lib Dems will maintain opposition to nuclear power, but Conservatives will continue to back building more stations. Deny permission for third runway at Heathrow and extra runways at Gatwick and Stansted. Replace air passenger duty with per-flight duty. Establish a smart-grid, roll out smart-metres, and create an offshore grid for wind power. Invest in the green economy and create a green investment bank. Work towards an ambitious global climate deal.

    Environment, food and rural affairs
    Give the House of Commons a free vote on repealing the Hunting Act. Implement a national tree-planting campaign and make the import of illegal timber a criminal offence. Improve flood defences. Work towards a "zero-waste economy", encouraging councils to pay people to recycle. Introduce badger control in areas with high levels of TB in cows. Improve standards of farm animal welfare. Target irresponsible owners of dangerous dogs. Create a presumption in favour of sustainable development in the planning system. Press for a ban on ivory sales.

    Equality
    Promote equal pay for equal work. Extend the right to request flexible working. Launch a public sector pay review to prevent the highest paid earning more than 20 times the salary of the lowest paid. Stop deportation of asylum seekers who fled their home countries because of intimidation over sexual orientation. Ensure British civil partnerships are recognised abroad.

    Europe
    Play "a strong and positive role" in the European Union while agreeing not to join the euro or allow any further transfer of sovereignty during this parliament. Any future treaty transferring powers must be subject to a referendum. Consider creating a UK Sovereignty Bill. Press for the European Parliament to meet only in Brussels. Take no part in setting up the European Public Prosecutor. Lend backing to further EU enlargement.

    Families and children
    End child poverty by 2020 and support free nursery care for preschool children. Reduce "the couple penalty" in tax the credit system and link pay of Sure Start providers to the results they achieve. Crackdown on irresponsible advertising and stop the commercialisation and sexualisation of childhood. Promote flexible parental leave, provide funding for relationship support and ensure better access to children for non-resident parents and grandparents when couples split up. Publish serious case reviews.

    Foreign affairs
    Continue the military mission in Afghanistan and push for peace in the Middle East. Seek a new "special relationship" with India and engage more closely with China while "standing firm" on human rights. Maintain a "strong, close and frank relationship" with the US. Support permanent seats for Japan, India, Brazil – on the UN Security Council. Support international efforts to prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon. Strengthen the Commonwealth and never condone the use of torture.

    Government transparency
    Make councils publish details of items of spending above £500 and publish full details of all central-government spending above £25,000. Publish the salaries and expenses of the highest-paid public sector workers online. Any centrally-funded public sector worker paid more than the Prime Minister must have their salary signed off by Treasury. Create a statutory register of lobbyists. Pursue a cross-party agreement on limiting political donations. Provide new protections for public-sector whistle-blowers.

    Immigration
    Impose an annual limit on non-EU economic migrants admitted to Britain. Speed up the asylum system and end the detention of children for immigration purposes. Create a dedicated border police force.

    International development
    Enshrine the commitment to spend 0.7 per cent of gross national income on overseas aid from 2013 in law. Prioritise aid spending on programmes to ensure universal access to clean water, sanitation, health care and education; to reduce maternal and infant mortality; and to restrict the spread of major diseases like HIV/ Aids. Take a "more integrated approach" to post-conflict reconstruction. Support the reform of the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund to help developing nations. Help the very poorest developing countries to take part in international climate change negotiations.

    Jobs and welfare
    End all existing welfare-to-work schemes and create a single new programme. Ensure Job Seeker's Allowance claimants aged under 25 are referred to a new programme within six months and reassess all Incapacity Benefit claimants for readiness to work. Support would-be entrepreneurs through a new programme called Work for Yourself. Develop local Work Clubs where unemployed people can gather to exchange skills.

    Justice
    Pay independent providers to reduce reoffending and ensure sentencing for drug use helps offenders come off drugs. Explore alternative forms of secure, treatment-based accommodation for mentally ill and drugs offenders. Deliver up to 15 new rape crisis centres, and give existing rape crisis centres stable, long-term funding. Review Legal Aid. Change the law so historic convictions for consensual gay sex with over16s will be treated as spent and extend anonymity in rape cases to defendants.

    National security
    Urgently review Control Orders and seek a practical way to allow the use of intercept evidence in court. Deny public funds to any group that has recently incited violence or hatred. Deport foreign nationals who threaten our security to countries where there will not be tortured.

    NHS and health
    Increase health spending in real terms, develop 24-hour urgent care across England, including GP out-of-hours services. Allow patients to register with any GP, regardless of where they live. Stop "centrally dictated" closure of A&E and maternity wards. Create Cancer Drugs Fund to enable access to treatments deemed necessary by doctors. Review National Institute for Clinical Excellence to bring in "value-based pricing" for drugs and treatment. Increase access to NHS dental treatment. Give GPs greater incentives to tackle public health problems. Improve access to preventive care in deprived areas.

    Pensions and the elderly
    Restore the earnings link for the basic state pension from April 2011 and establish an independent commission to review the affordability of public sector pensions, while protecting current rights. Phase out the default retirement age and make fair and transparent payments to Equitable Life policy holders for their loss as a consequence of regulatory failure. Protect key benefits for older people such as the winter fuel allowance, free TV licences, free bus travel, and free eye tests and prescriptions. Simplify the rules and regulations relating to pensions.

    Political reform
    Establish fixed-term, five-year parliaments and require the support of 55 per cent of MPs to trigger the dissolution of Parliament. Hold a referendum on voting reform. Give voters powers to force by elections where MPs are shown to have done wrong. Establish committee to consider wholly or partly elected House of Lords. Stop MPs accused of serious wrongdoing using parliamentary privilege as a defence. Fund 200 all-postal primaries for parliamentary seats which have not changed hands in many years. Publish details of every UK project receiving more than £25,000 from the EU.

    Schools
    Give parents, teachers, charities and communities powers to set up "free" schools. Establish "premium" to fund help for disadvantaged pupils, paid for by spending reductions elsewhere. Enable more faith schools to be set up, with "inclusive admissions policies". Give anonymity to teachers accused of wrongdoing by pupils. Reform league tables to show the progress of pupils of all abilities. Prevent unnecessary closure of special schools. Provide better vocational training for teenagers.

    Social action
    Create a National Citizens Service for 16-year-olds. Transfer dormant bank account funds into the Big Society Bank. Give public sector workers the right to form employee-owned co-operatives. Create a national "social action" day.

    Social care
    Establish a commission on long-term care to report within a year. Give direct payments to carers.

    Taxatiion
    Increase personal income tax allowance to £10,000 and raise capital gains tax rates to a level "similar or close to those applied to income". Review taxation rules for non-doms.

    Transport
    Introduce system of HGV road user charges to ensure "fairer arrangement" for UK hauliers. Create national recharging network for electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles. Establish high-speed rail network and support Crossrail and more electrification of network. Stop central government funding for fixed speed cameras.

    Universities
    Create more university places and free colleges from direct state control. Abolish "many" further education quangos. Publish information on costs, graduate earnings and "student satisfaction" of university courses.
    Last edited by Equibrit; May. 21, 2010 at 12:22 AM.
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