The Chronicle of the Horse
MagazineNewsHorse SportsHorse CareCOTH StoreVoicesThe Chronicle UntackedDirectoriesMarketplaceDates & Results
 
Page 1 of 8 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 142
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar. 13, 2000
    Posts
    1,813

    Default

    My 10-year old horse is diagnosed with navicular. He's shown signs, which we've been now managing actively for more than a year, for 2+ years. The management was bar shoes with degree pads, and isox. It worked great.

    Now, the symptoms have intensified starting this spring--we've managed to get him sound again, but the vet has intimated that this will be a touch and go condition, and that in the end, the navicular will win.

    Help. Any suggestions for care, treatment, what to avoid, what to do? Is my horse just winding down to forced retirement?

    As noted above, we've had him in bar shoes for a year+ and on isox for a year+. Recently, he was injected in the n.bursa and in the coffin joint, with the effects lasting 1 week. He is back on Adequan (shot a week, so far, with attempts at spacing the injections starting in a week or 2). I ride him on superior footing. He is turned out in a flat sand paddock.

    Recently, with this bout of lameness, we approached the treatment by first removing the degree pads. He was sound for a week. In response, we went the other way, back to a 2-degree pad. After a week of walking in his new angles, we have done light trotting, and now the work is a tad more intense, with some bits of cantering. So far, so good.

    But every day is all you get. No sense of confidence that tomorrow will be a good day.

    So, any suggestions for care or future treatment? I've heard of a drug called Tigmet???, for foot ailments, and it's in use by some vets here, but also phew! expensive...and eventual neurectomy...

    Thanks for everything!



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar. 13, 2000
    Posts
    1,813

    Default

    My 10-year old horse is diagnosed with navicular. He's shown signs, which we've been now managing actively for more than a year, for 2+ years. The management was bar shoes with degree pads, and isox. It worked great.

    Now, the symptoms have intensified starting this spring--we've managed to get him sound again, but the vet has intimated that this will be a touch and go condition, and that in the end, the navicular will win.

    Help. Any suggestions for care, treatment, what to avoid, what to do? Is my horse just winding down to forced retirement?

    As noted above, we've had him in bar shoes for a year+ and on isox for a year+. Recently, he was injected in the n.bursa and in the coffin joint, with the effects lasting 1 week. He is back on Adequan (shot a week, so far, with attempts at spacing the injections starting in a week or 2). I ride him on superior footing. He is turned out in a flat sand paddock.

    Recently, with this bout of lameness, we approached the treatment by first removing the degree pads. He was sound for a week. In response, we went the other way, back to a 2-degree pad. After a week of walking in his new angles, we have done light trotting, and now the work is a tad more intense, with some bits of cantering. So far, so good.

    But every day is all you get. No sense of confidence that tomorrow will be a good day.

    So, any suggestions for care or future treatment? I've heard of a drug called Tigmet???, for foot ailments, and it's in use by some vets here, but also phew! expensive...and eventual neurectomy...

    Thanks for everything!



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb. 28, 2001
    Posts
    15,232

    Default

    I have a great article on Navicular written by Dr Bowker on Navicular pain---it is rather large to email so be sure you box can handle it.

    Just let me know if you are interested.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov. 6, 2002
    Location
    Central NY
    Posts
    3,601

    Default

    Here is a link to a paper that contains info like LMH is refering to.
    http://www.horse-canada.com/html/art...tphys03.99.htm
    December 13 - National Day of the Horse!
    Proud member of the * Hoof Fetish Clique *



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov. 22, 2003
    Location
    Southern Maryland
    Posts
    1,267

    Default

    I had a horse 10+ years ago whom was "nerved" (cuts the nerve endings in the foot). He never had special shoes. Hindsight, there are probably better things (more modern) methods to deal with Navicular, but this worked for him. Many people claim a LOT of negative drawbacks, but I never had those. He competed Novice until his retirement at 21.
    Experience is what you get, when you didn't get what you wanted.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun. 6, 2000
    Location
    Amherst, MA
    Posts
    5,348

    Default

    You could also look at the bulletin board on the professional farriers' website: www.horseshoes.com . There are a set of BBs dedicated to farriers answering questions from horseowners, and you'll find some very good discussions of navicular and various treatments there.
    "The formula 'Two and two make five' is not without its attractions." --Dostoevsky



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep. 25, 2003
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    1,079

    Default

    First off, this is long, I've copied it from the website. It's the FIRST and ONLY article I've seen that indicates that navicular MAY NOT be the kiss of death. With a recently diagnosed horse who is an absolute cadillac, I'm going to hang on to the hope written in here and persevere.

    Navicular Syndrome: Shoeing Methods
    © Tom Stovall, CJF

    Navicular Syndrome is any lameness in the rear third of a front foot which will block out with a posterior digital nerve block, usually both fronts are involved, although this is sometimes not evident until one is blocked.

    All methods of shoeing for NS are palliative in nature. A farrier can't cure or correct anything, he can only relieve the symptoms to some degree. One hears the term "corrective shoeing" used in the treatment of NS horses however, "corrective" is a misnomer: no method of shoeing will "correct" the condition.

    Shoeing for NS must meet several criteria if it is to be successful: it must decrease pressure on the navicular bone from the deep digital flexor tendon, it must enhance breakover, and it must protect the rear third of the foot from environmental pressure.

    The classic method of shoeing the NS horse is called, "Stand 'em up and turn 'em over." This means that the farrier will do whatever he can to decrease the length of the phalangeal lever and to increase phalangeal angulation.

    Increased angulation can be accomplished by several methods: cutting the toe, mechanically raising the heels, and setting the shoe under. Since the farrier is unable to grow hoof, raising the heels is sometimes accomplished through the use of wedge pad(s) and various types of non-traction calks; e.g., roll calks, wedge calks, etc.

    Why is increased phalangeal angulation a Good Thing? Because this relieves the pressure exerted upon the navicular bone by the deep flexor tendon which uses the navicular bone as a fulcrum before it inserts into P3 (coffin bone, third phalanx). The navicular bone comprises the posterior portion of the coffin (distal interphalangeal, DIJ) joint and is subjected to compression by the DDFT every time the foot is turned over. Increased angulation relieves pressure from the DDFT, but how is turnover enhanced?

    Turnover is enhanced, in the main, by shortening the phalangeal lever.

    The lever is shortened, primarily, by cutting off as much toe as possible.

    Next, by several means: through choice of configuration of shoe materials; i.e., the use of half-rounds, aluminum (which becomes a de-facto half-round with wear) and hot-rasping the ground surface of the toe of a conventional shoe. Finally, and most important from the standpoint of enhanced turnover, the shoe must be set under so that an imaginary line from the front of the fetlock, bisecting the toe, to the ground, is as short as possible.
    By setting the shoe under, turnover is enhanced, and pressure on the DDFT is reduced as a direct result. The obvious limiting factor to setting the shoe under is the white line; however, the shoe can be set under to the posterior edge of the white line if necessary. The toe should be "chopped off" (cut off perpendicular to the ground) rather than "feathered" to the coronary band in an effort to make the foot look "pretty". Excessive rasping, aka, "feathering the toe", destroys the structural integrity of the hoof.

    The easiest method of protecting the rear third of the foot is the use of a bar shoe. Underslung, low-heeled horses respond best to conventional (track-style) egg bars, probably because, being set under, the increased support relieves pressure exerted by the DDFT. Upright horses seem to respond better to the more circular style of egg bars or straight bars.

    All styles may be configured with a "frog cradle" which protects the frog from environmental pressure; however, if moisture or weak heels is not a problem, it's sometimes more efficient to use a wedge pad or bar wedge pad to accomplish the same result.

    Many racetrackers have heard the old wives' tale: "A horse can't run in bar shoes". The truth of the matter is that any horse that needs bar shoes, can't run with out them.

    The aforementioned methods of farriery may be used individually or in combination. A horse with minor symptoms might be shod with half-rounds slightly set under; a horse with serious problems, with aluminum egg bars set under as much as possible and three degree bar wedge pads.

    Navicular problems range in severity from a slight bruise to the navicular bursa to a fractured navicular bone. They are all treated, mechanically, in much the same manner with the exception being that DIJ problems are sometimes palliated by means of a pressure bar which applies general (as opposed to apexal) pressure on the frog.

    Navicular Syndrome is no longer the Kiss of Death it once was. Due to farrier/veterinary cooperation resulting in a greatly increased body of knowledge relative to the diagnosis and treatment of this syndrome, horses which would have been euthanized 20 years ago are now dying of old age after leading full, active lives.

    Tom Stovall is an American Farriers Association Certified Journeyman Farrier since 1983, a Member of the Texas Professional Farriers Association, and a Member of the Artists-Blacksmiths Association of North America. Thanks to him for his permission to post this article.
    ~~~~~*~*~*~*~*~
    “ride your own horse” from sayings for life.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar. 29, 2004
    Posts
    2,322

    Default

    cyberbay, I read this article not long ago. Have no idea if it's possible to look into it for your horse, unfortunately it appears the best chance for these injections to help is early on in treatment. And, probably as you found out from the info posted above, I would imagine it would depend on exactly what aspect of navicular syndrome your horse is experiencing as to whether the below would be relevant. But thought I'd pass it on, might be difficult to find a vet who's familiar with its use. If I understand this correctly, the drug is not approved for use with horses in the US, so if used it would be off-label usage.

    Treating Navicular Disease From Inside the Bone
    by: Susan Piscopo, DVM, PhD
    July 2004 Article # 1527

    Article Tools

    Healthy bone undergoes constant metabolic change to prevent bone loss or abnormal remodeling (cell turnover) that can occur with loading. Horses with navicular disease can have abnormal remodeling and formation of osteolytic lesions (areas of broken-down bone) within the navicular bone. This might be due to an imbalance in bone metabolism, with increased bone resorption. Dominique Thibaud, DVM, of Ceva Santé Animale (CEVA), in Libourne, France, with colleagues in France, Italy, and Germany, set out to evaluate a drug to target abnormal bone metabolism. The drug, tiludronate, inhibits excessive bone resorption, allowing bone metabolism to become balanced once again. The study aimed to assess tiludronate's effectiveness against navicular disease. (The drug is not approved in the United States for use in horses, so any clinical use would be considered off-label).

    Fifty horses with moderate to severe navicular disease were studied. Radiographs and videotaped lameness examinations were collected prior to treatment. Horses were randomly assigned to receive either 1 mg/kg tiludronate intravenously (IV) daily for 10 days; 0.5 mg/kg IV daily for five days, followed by five days of placebo; or 10 days of IV placebo. Lameness exams were performed (and videotaped) one, two, and six months after treatment. Radiographs were repeated six months after treatment, and independent examiners reviewed all radiographs and lameness exam tapes. Horses which didn't respond to tiludronate or the placebo by two months, based on clinical examination and owner evaluation, were removed from the study as treatment failures and treated as needed with tiludronate.

    Horses responded best (based on improvement of lameness and ability to return to work) to the regimen of 1 mg/kg tiludronate IV daily for 10 days. More recent cases of navicular disease (less than six months duration, 33 horses, no treatment failures) responded better than chronic cases (17 horses, 11 treatment failures). Of recent-case horses, 67% showed a positive response to treatment, and 75% returned to normal activity by six months.

    Interestingly, horses had no change in flexion/extension test response after treatment. However, Thibaud notes, "Flexion/ extension tests assess local pain of the coffin joint, which can be due to both soft tissue and bone lesions. Tiludronate acts specifically on osteolytic bone lesions." So, some pain can remain in the foot despite improvement in the navicular bone. Overall, the results support Thibaud's opinion, "Tiludronate helps in restoring a normal balance between resorption and formation of bone" in horses with navicular disease. However, drug therapy should be combined with corrective shoeing for best results.

    Thibaud is currently studying bone pharmacology in horses and other species. The CEVA web site (www.ceva.com) has prepared a link to a separate web site devoted to tiludronate, or Tildren, for horses at www.tildren.com.
    Denoix, J.M.; Thibaud, D.; Riccio, B. Equine Veterinary Journal, 35 (4), 407-413, 2003.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar. 29, 2004
    Posts
    2,322

    Default

    IndysMom, you and I were posting at the same time. If your guy is recently diagnosed I wonder if the article I posted might apply. Let us know if you decide to ask your vet about this French drug study, and what they say.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct. 9, 2000
    Location
    California
    Posts
    8,191

    Default

    Having been reading a lot about barefooting these days, Jaime Jackson says (what else?!) that pulling the shoes and doing a "natural" trim will help the "navicular" horse (in quotes because he doesn't seem to believe that is a separate disease from laminitis, I think). So there you have it, FWIW. I have no experience with that and all the remedies I've heard of are the traditional bar shoes, pads, wedges, medicine, etc... I can't speak frome experience either way.
    My Mustang Adventures - Mac, my mustang | Annwylid D'Lite - my Cob filly

    "A horse's face always conveys clearly whether it is loved by its owner or simply used." - Anja Beran



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct. 9, 2000
    Location
    California
    Posts
    8,191

    Default

    Forgot to say...check out www.naturalhorsetrim.com for more information on a "holistic" approach. Although, this is a pro-Strasser site, which I also have no experience with.
    My Mustang Adventures - Mac, my mustang | Annwylid D'Lite - my Cob filly

    "A horse's face always conveys clearly whether it is loved by its owner or simply used." - Anja Beran



  12. #12
    Join Date
    May. 12, 2003
    Location
    Home of the Rock 'n Roll Burrito
    Posts
    4,807

    Default

    There is no pressure on the navicular bone from the DDFT. In fact the more weight the horse applies to the foot the further the DDFT is pushed away from the bone. Therefore there is no reason to expect these recommendations to work, since the problem is misunderstood - backwards.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by IndysMom:
    Navicular Syndrome: Shoeing Methods
    © Tom Stovall, CJF

    Shoeing for NS must meet several criteria if it is to be successful: it must decrease pressure on the navicular bone from the deep digital flexor tendon, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Visit my barefoot blog:
    http://barefoothoofcare.wordpress.com/
    "I don't mean to brag, I don't mean to boast, but I'm intercontinental when I eat French toast" ~ Beastie Boys



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov. 6, 2002
    Location
    Central NY
    Posts
    3,601

    Default

    I'll second that...what Stovall is saying contracidcts itself. He acknowledges that "naricular syndrome" is heel pain, which implies that the horse would not load its heels. Then goes on to indiacte that the way to address the problem is to lessen the forces on the DDFT. If the heel is not weighted, then there cannot be these forces on the DDFT that are eluded to.

    From my experience, successful treatment of navicular...and I have seen horses with years of lameness restored to soundness...is to reduce concussion (either through shoing or barefoot), remove external excess leverage forces such as long toes and underrun heels, and trim for a low heel that allows maximum ground contact of frog and optimal function that will help restore health to the digital cushion. Often navicular horses have damaged digital cushions (Bowker).

    The way that this article indicates to address the issue is as Stovall notes...not a cure, but a fix. However, if addressed by correctly aligning and balancing the feet, it can be eliminated in the majority of cases. In general navicular is a "created" problem, not a natural one. Poor hoof shape is the primary contributor.

    Addressing the problem as noted by Stovall is setting the horse up for a continuation of the problem. If the heels are encouraged to grow high or are otherwise enhanced through wedges, there is reduction of circulation to the toe (Pollitt). If the frog is "protected" rather than allowed to make ground contact and be fully functional, then the problem will be enhanced. While all these things result in a temprory relief of pain, they then introduce a whole other set of problems that must be fixed.
    December 13 - National Day of the Horse!
    Proud member of the * Hoof Fetish Clique *



  14. #14
    Join Date
    May. 27, 2003
    Posts
    200

    Default

    It is apparent that corrective trimming will cure so called navicular syndrome. There is a good article about it on the site www.thehorseshoof.com



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep. 25, 2003
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    1,079

    Default

    Bea,
    Thanks. I'll check with him on that, but I suspect it won't apply since he has pristine navicular bones-no changes at all. Just like 50% of horses who have this diagnosis. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...icon_frown.gif
    ~~~~~*~*~*~*~*~
    “ride your own horse” from sayings for life.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Mar. 13, 2000
    Posts
    1,813

    Default

    LMH-
    Would love the article. I am in a bit of a hurry this AM, and don't have a moment to discern if any of the following posts, from other wonderful posters like you who have taken the time to help me help this horse,include that same article!
    More later...sorry for the haste.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug. 21, 2004
    Location
    Katy, Texas
    Posts
    162

    Default

    In response to one of my essays, someone wrote:

    "There is no pressure on the navicular bone from the DDFT. In fact the more weight the horse applies to the foot the further the DDFT is pushed away from the bone. Therefore there is no reason to expect these recommendations to work, since the problem is misunderstood - backwards..."

    This statement will come as a great surprise to the folks who've labored mightly to teach me a bit of equid anatomy over the years. Every one of them - as well as the authors of standard classroom textbooks such as Stashak's, "Adams Lameness in Horses" and Butler's, "Principles of Horseshoeing" - seemed to think that the deep digital flexor tendon originates on the flexor muscles and inserts on the semiluner crest of the third phalanx and adjacent surface of the collateral cartlidge of the third phalanx. The DDFT uses the navicular bone (aka, distal sesamoid) and proximal sesmoids as fulcurms.

    The flexor muscles transfer their energy to motion through the action of flexor tendons on bone. The DDFT is the largest of these tendons and uses several fulcrums on the bony column to increase the muscles' ability to transfer energy through leverage. Archimedes at work!

    Since the navicular bone is used as a fulcrum by the DDFT, it follows that contraction of the DDF flexor muscles must place the navicular bone in some degree of compression. Furthermore, physical law dictates that the more acute (lower) the phalangeal angle, the greater the amount of compression. Put another way, if one whacks of the heels off a horse with navicular syndrome as advocated by the current crop of "natural" folks, one unarguably places the navicular bone in greater compression.

    Since several forms of navicular syndrome are both insidious and incurable, palliation by some means is often the only viable mechanical option on diagnosis of NS if the horse is to remain in use.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb. 6, 2000
    Location
    MA
    Posts
    12,671

    Default

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tom Stovall, CJF:
    . <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Senor Tomas!
    Bienvenido!
    "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

    ...just settin' on the Group W bench.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb. 23, 2004
    Location
    Scandia, MN
    Posts
    549

    Default

    The Old Fat Man has spoken............
    Sticking to my guns and religion
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Q4P4...eature=related
    Dutch Denson CF REMF'er



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Nov. 6, 2002
    Location
    Central NY
    Posts
    3,601

    Default

    Your assessment of anatomy is correctly presented; however, your assessment of mechanics is no longer considered valid...much research has been conducted to dispute it. While I agree on some of your points, "lowering heels" has little to do with "natural" anything...it has to do with correctly balancing and aligning the feet as per Butler,Adams and others. Treating pathologies has to do with restoring balance and alignment to allow for optimal form and function. Hindering blood flow or purposely misaligning joints does not promote healing in any form. Regardless of if the horse can be "healed", comfort comes from goals of optimal alignment and balance. If the heels are too high or permanently wedged, they cannot contribute to correct balance/alignment within the hoof and complementary structures.

    You guys have about 20 years of reading to catch up on...and don't forget to close the cave door when you leave. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c.../icon_wink.gif
    December 13 - National Day of the Horse!
    Proud member of the * Hoof Fetish Clique *



Similar Threads

  1. Sometimes it really is just KISS
    By tabula rashah in forum Horse Care
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Aug. 24, 2011, 09:20 AM
  2. It's all about ME and KISS MY A$$!!!!!!!!!
    By twotrudoc in forum Off Topic
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: Apr. 24, 2011, 11:17 PM
  3. Last Wish - To Kiss A Horse
    By Trixie in forum Off Course
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: Mar. 24, 2011, 02:16 PM
  4. Replies: 17
    Last Post: Jun. 7, 2010, 09:49 AM
  5. Replies: 20
    Last Post: Jan. 11, 2010, 06:40 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
randomness