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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct. 2, 2007
    Location
    Mirabel, QC
    Posts
    2,656

    Default I got lectured two days ago... and I needed it!

    I was talking to my mare's previous owner, an experienced and WISE racehorse breeder, to obtain details on her repro history as we were breeding her over the week-end.

    Oh. my. god. When he learned I hadn't had a cytology/culture done at 9 days post-foaling... Ugh. I got a GOOD lecture.

    But I listened. It wasn't stupid on his part at all. I needed it.

    The thing he told me that really hit it home was:

    Have a protocol and STICK TO IT.

    And he gave me his protocol.

    He went on and on about us, smaller, less experienced breeders, were hemorraging money on mares without knowning what the hell was going on and how we should just do our homework properly. Which meant having a plan, and following it thoroughly, as in a scientific experiment environment.

    It makes PERFECT sense. Your protocol thus becomes a VERY useful diagnostic tool should things go wrong.

    So there you go folks, I'll spare your ears:

    HAVE A PROTOCOL AND STICK TO IT!



    Have a nice day!
    www.EquusMagnificus.ca
    Breeding & Sales - Currently: Eventing & Derby prospects
    Facebook | YouTube |Twitter | LinkedIn



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb. 2, 2003
    Location
    Wynnewood, Oklahoma
    Posts
    5,195

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EquusMagnificus View Post
    I was talking to my mare's previous owner, an experienced and WISE racehorse breeder, to obtain details on her repro history as we were breeding her over the week-end.

    Oh. my. god. When he learned I hadn't had a cytology/culture done at 9 days post-foaling... Ugh. I got a GOOD lecture.

    But I listened. It wasn't stupid on his part at all. I needed it.

    The thing he told me that really hit it home was:

    Have a protocol and STICK TO IT.

    And he gave me his protocol.

    He went on and on about us, smaller, less experienced breeders, were hemorraging money on mares without knowning what the hell was going on and how we should just do our homework properly. Which meant having a plan, and following it thoroughly, as in a scientific experiment environment.

    It makes PERFECT sense. Your protocol thus becomes a VERY useful diagnostic tool should things go wrong.

    So there you go folks, I'll spare your ears:

    HAVE A PROTOCOL AND STICK TO IT!



    Have a nice day!
    Except doing a culture and cytology on a foal heat is next to useless . It is the one time that doing one is not recommended as the uterus is still inflamed from the foaling and usually kicking out all kinds of stuff. It is why often breeding contracts do not require a culture and cytology on the foal heat and indeed, the fact that the mare produced a live, healthy foal (placentitis would be an exception) is probably the best indication that the uterus is probably just fine. So while definitely following a protocol and sticking to it is admirable, there are times when you might be better off not following it <lol>.
    Equine-Reproduction.com Now offering one on one customized training!
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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct. 2, 2007
    Location
    Mirabel, QC
    Posts
    2,656

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Equine Reproduction View Post
    Except doing a culture and cytology on a foal heat is next to useless . It is the one time that doing one is not recommended as the uterus is still inflamed from the foaling and usually kicking out all kinds of stuff. It is why often breeding contracts do not require a culture and cytology on the foal heat and indeed, the fact that the mare produced a live, healthy foal (placentitis would be an exception) is probably the best indication that the uterus is probably just fine. So while definitely following a protocol and sticking to it is admirable, there are times when you might be better off not following it <lol>.
    Well good point about the foal heat thing.

    But still. The idea as a whole is a good one, IMO.
    www.EquusMagnificus.ca
    Breeding & Sales - Currently: Eventing & Derby prospects
    Facebook | YouTube |Twitter | LinkedIn



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan. 21, 2003
    Location
    Charles Town, WV
    Posts
    6,637

    Default

    Not on foal heat, but ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS on an open mare, and make THAT be part of your protocol.
    Tranquility Farm - Proud breeder of Born in the USA Sport Horses, and Cob-sized Warmbloods
    Now apparently completely invisible!



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep. 9, 2004
    Location
    North East, MD
    Posts
    2,570

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiki View Post
    Not on foal heat, but ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS on an open mare, and make THAT be part of your protocol.
    Definitely, we do it on every open mare or mare's that we suspected placentitis even if mild. I look at every placenta and if any look a bit off we do a culture but not on foal heat. We do it after and yes that means she's"closed" but if you have a good vet or you are extremely careful you won't contaminate. After spending many years as a molecular biologist, cleaniness is next to godliness in my book. So with that said, yes when you have any suspicions then do it following the foal heat, you can save yourself quite a bit of money in the long run that way.

    But another way you can handle it if you don't like going in a closed cervix, do it at breeding. There would still be time for infusion especially if you do it when mare first comes into heat (so when follicle size is quite small and not breedable). We have had many a successful pregnancy this way, i.e. infusing a couple days post breeding.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul. 5, 2002
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    8,270

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiki View Post
    Not on foal heat, but ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS on an open mare, and make THAT be part of your protocol.
    Yes. But NOT on foal heat, which seems to be what the OP's advisor is advocating and which is a waste of money.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct. 3, 2002
    Location
    it's not the edge of the earth, but you can see it from here
    Posts
    12,079

    Default

    I think the bigger point was 'have a plan and stick to it.'



    I'm pretty sure most of us are on the same page re: foal heat and that part doesn't need to be beat to death.

    But it is a very valid point about having a plan and sticking to it. I am PLANNING that my strategy of waiting to breed until late May/early June pays off, since the stallion's book closes on June 25. Ive only given myself the possibility of 2 shipments, and I'm cutting it close.

    BUT, I know from history, I have NEVER gotten a mare pregnant AI *before* June. So I am sticking to my plan.
    InnisFailte Pinto Sporthorses & Coloured Cobs
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Bits are like cats, what's one more? (Petstorejunkie)



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct. 28, 2007
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    633

    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by EquusMagnificus View Post
    I was talking to my mare's previous owner, an experienced and WISE racehorse breeder, to obtain details on her repro history as we were breeding her over the week-end.

    Oh. my. god. When he learned I hadn't had a cytology/culture done at 9 days post-foaling... Ugh. I got a GOOD lecture.

    But I listened. It wasn't stupid on his part at all. I needed it.

    The thing he told me that really hit it home was:

    Have a protocol and STICK TO IT.

    And he gave me his protocol.

    He went on and on about us, smaller, less experienced breeders, were hemorraging money on mares without knowning what the hell was going on and how we should just do our homework properly. Which meant having a plan, and following it thoroughly, as in a scientific experiment environment.

    It makes PERFECT sense. Your protocol thus becomes a VERY useful diagnostic tool should things go wrong.

    So there you go folks, I'll spare your ears:

    HAVE A PROTOCOL AND STICK TO IT!



    Have a nice day!
    that's what happens when you have non-agriculture people breeding animals! dog and horse "breeders" are all pretty much the same. Maybe only 10% know how to do it properly and follow a plan. Sounds like your guy told you the straight stuff. It is the difference between how one approaches a business versus playing around in a hobby.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul. 17, 2006
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,102

    Default

    Actually, I have found that, in speaking with a lot of other local small-time breeders, that it's the medium-sized businesses that tend to cut corners. Smaller hobby breeders usually do lots of research, baby their mares and take it seriously (at least that what I've found!).

    I only have 2 broodmares, usually only breed one at a time. I always do a culture/cytology (not after foaling, though), I put my mares on Immunall, I take copious notes every time the vet comes out so I know my mare's cycle inside and out, I have the vet out *at least* once if not twice post insemination to check for fluid and verify ovulation, and I follow the oxytocin protocol. Oh, and give HcG to induce ovulation. I also only put one dose in and let the good swimmers do their work - I don't believe in stuffing in a whole bunch more junk in there unless absolutely necessary.

    I am also only giving it x number of tries per year depending on how much $$ I have saved up (usually 2 cycles).

    I also make sure that any mare I breed is SOUND and RIDEABLE so that the "well I don't wanna leave her open, how is she going to earn her keep???" situation never applies - if she doesn't catch, I ride her, lease her out, find a half-leasor, etc.



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