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  1. #61
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    Wish I could afford to go to WEG but bank account would have a heart attack. Anyway I was wondering if any real horsemen have ever had the guts to stand up in the middle of one of PP shows erm clinics and say something to the effect of "Are you Freaking nuts?"
    That I would pay for front row seats to see and watch how PP defends his methods...
    Friend of bar .ka



  2. #62
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    There are aspects of America that are embarassing. He is one of them. It's kind of like having an International Chef's Competition and having McDonald's sponsor a demo on how to nuke a Lean Cuisine.



  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guilherme View Post
    ... He does want the goggle-eyed newbie with a thick wallet. He wants, particularly, the middle aged, female, empty-nester newbie or re-rider. He wants them overmounted, undertrained, and completely lacking in self confidence.
    There's a lot of so-called "Dressage" trainers that get their mitts on their share of that demographic. Only difference is their "hook" is blowing smoke up client's butts instead of blowing smoke out of their own butts.



  4. #64
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    Seems they're just not fussy who they let in nowadays!



  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by magnolia73 View Post
    There are aspects of America that are embarassing. He is one of them. It's kind of like having an International Chef's Competition and having McDonald's sponsor a demo on how to nuke a Lean Cuisine.
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.



  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by magnolia73 View Post
    There are aspects of America that are embarassing. He is one of them. It's kind of like having an International Chef's Competition and having McDonald's sponsor a demo on how to nuke a Lean Cuisine.
    Now that is a classic.



  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by magnolia73 View Post
    There are aspects of America that are embarassing. He is one of them. It's kind of like having an International Chef's Competition and having McDonald's sponsor a demo on how to nuke a Lean Cuisine.


    Or having an entire pavilion dedicated to Hot Pockets.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xlN_ltZ3Ug

    It really doesn't bother me so much that many of the "NH gurus" originally just talked about horse behavior, or that they are (supposedly) trying to teach novice owners some basic, safe horse-handling.

    But now, the whole thing has evolved into "training systems" where students/followers get so engrossed in that program that they shun all other forms of riding and training. And you have to buy THEIR expensive gadgets and talk in THEIR lingo or you're not doing it "right."
    Please copy and paste this to your signature if you know someone, or have been affected by someone who needs a smack upside the head. Lets raise awareness.



  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by bumknees View Post
    I was wondering if any real horsemen have ever had the guts to stand up in the middle of one of PP shows erm clinics and say something to the effect of "Are you Freaking nuts?"
    That I would pay for front row seats to see and watch how PP defends his methods...
    I suspect they keep a couple of goons (uh, I mean security people) to handle anyone brave enough to do that.
    Visit Sonesta Farms website at www.sonestafarms.com or our FaceBook page at www.facebook.com/sonestafarms. Also showing & breeding Cavalier King Charles Spaniels.



  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonesta View Post
    I suspect they keep a couple of goons (uh, I mean security people) to handle anyone brave enough to do that.
    armed with carrot sticks and clunkers
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.



  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonesta View Post
    I suspect they keep a couple of goons (uh, I mean security people) to handle anyone brave enough to do that.
    Do the P's even do clinics or demonstrations other than their own traveling trick-pony show anymore?

    I mean, do they go to expos or other large-scale horse events where people from a variety of riding disciplines and riding backgrounds congregate?

    Looks to me like most of their events are Parelli-only events:

    http://www.parellinaturalhorsetraini...Across-America

    I guess that would eliminate most of the risk of any sensible, competent horse person ending up in the audience. It would also reduce competition from other vendors.

    They can continue to sell their $60 lunge whips (aka Carrot Sticks) and $100 lunge lines ("training" lines) without the risk of someone noticing that the saddle shop two booths away has similar items for a fraction of the price.
    Please copy and paste this to your signature if you know someone, or have been affected by someone who needs a smack upside the head. Lets raise awareness.



  11. #71

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    Why would WEG have someone as an exhibiter who actually abuses horses?
    In response to the abuse video that is in another thread...this is what Linda Parelli says:

    If I was seeing this clip with no knowledge of what exactly was going on, I think I would get upset too! It invites a lot of questions if one doesn't know what the situation or the outcome was.
    This horse, Barney, was presenting a lot of challenges to his owner. He was at the Parelli Center in Ocala for a five day Level 1 course over five years ago that we filmed for educational purposes and published in our Level 1 Pack.
    On this particular day, it was windy and Barney was terribly spooked. He could not focus on his owner and in fact his behavior was becoming dangerous because he had no awareness for personal space and would run right over you. He also was not fond of humans, and his past ownership experiences had been tough.
    In the clip that was posted, Barney was starting to have a lot of trouble with the wind in the trees and bushes. We needed to teach him to move away from the human when asked using the “Driving Game” to move his front end over, but he was so upset he could not yield. All he could think about was running away but this was our chance to change his dangerous habits and give him the confidence in the leadership of a human. We had to get through to him so he could successfully and safely interact with other horses and humans, and I had to increase the intensity until it matched the intensity of his fear, which was dangerously high. The moment he responded, we stopped the stimulus but it required several repetitions before he could do it and finally calmed down.
    I have heard accusations that this will make a horse head shy, but the opposite is true. Horses are head shy because they fear the human or because people hit them to punish them. This horse was not afraid of humans, but he didn't believe in them either. He was respectful in very limited circumstances but as soon as he got worried, he was a force to be reckoned with. Barney was very spooky and dangerous to ride, his history with humans was not positive.
    Finally fear subsided and he began to trust the leadership of his human. In fact the next day, he was a very different horse, more confident, more relaxed and more connected to his owner. Together, they completed the course with great results and have gone on to do amazing things.
    I have dedicated my life to making the world a better place for horses and humans; to bringing them together in harmony and understanding and solving terrible problems that some horses are sedated or euthanized for, which is not an option for Parelli. This horse was on his way out and finding us was one last piece of hope his owner had. Barney has become so successful that he now HELPS his owner help other people with emotional problems.
    When we were producing the Level 1 pack, we debated as to whether or not this footage should be included (the entire piece of course), but decided it should be because some people will be faced with an extreme situation and need to know what to do to solve it for good. Some people use love, love and love on their horses. Others use leadership, leadership, leadership. Neither of them are effective...you need love, language and leadership, in equal measures. When we did all that, this horse finally found understanding and began to trust us, looking to us for safety instead of just running away.
    I am glad that some people have asked for an explanation. I appreciate your care and concern, and being interested in learning the facts. I reached out to Paul H., Barney’s owner, and asked how their relationship has grown since spending time at our Center in Ocala and studying Parelli on their own. He sent me the following feedback that I would like to share with you.
    Linda Parelli

    A letter from the owner:
    “I took the time to read one of the threads (Chronicle of the Horse Forum) that sprung up as a result of someone posting footage of Linda and my horse Barney from the Level 1 DVD on the web. I first have to say that I was profoundly saddened by the angry and vicious tone of many of the posts and astounded by the assumptions and judgments that people had about Linda, Barney, and myself as an owner.
    Barney spent the first 11 years of his life in a prominent traditional foxhunting barn. He received a corneal scratch in the hunt field that subsequently got infected. When it was determined that the eye couldn't be saved, his owner requested that he be euthanized. It was only through the actions of a veterinary intern and my search for a local horse to adopt that Barney is even alive today. I met Barney the day after his eye was removed. From the day I met him it was clear that humans were not his preferred company. He avoided people preferring to keep a safe distance. After two years out in a pasture, being fed and handled every day I started to ride him. He was an extraordinarily spirited horse that, while often responsive, always seemed to act out of fear rather than trust or partnership. This was the legacy I inherited and the one that Barney learned and experienced in early life.
    My time at the Parelli Center in Ocala during which the DVD was filmed was a challenging and profoundly rewarding time for both Barney and myself. I am grateful for the assistance I received in dealing with a very difficult and potentially dangerous situation captured, in part, on the video and for the subsequent mentorship I receive from Linda and the Parelli team in transforming both my relationship with Barney and Barney's relationship with the human race. We weren't on the fast track and I've taken lots of missteps but we have continued to grow and learn. We completed our Level 2 some years back. He is semi-retired now but he is my rock steady mount in sport psychology clinics I conduct with other riders, as well as my trusted partner on trail rides both alone and ponying my two young sons.
    Barney is still a horse of tremendous spirit. I guess a good way to described the difference now is that his spirit is now shared with me rather than channeled into his fear of me and others. Barney's relationships with humans has also been transformed. He is now one of the main horses who partner with me in my work in equine assisted psychotherapy. It is amazing to watch as he reaches out to clients time after time, helping to transform their lives. I know I am grateful for what I learned from the Parelli program, and I think anyone who knows Barney will say that he is grateful as well.
    All the best from a grateful friend of Parelli.”
    - Paul H., Barney’s Owner
    www.hartetoharte.org
    Ask and allow, do not demand and force.



  12. #72
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    Have to say Barney didn't look particularly spooky in that clip.. Also have to say my young tb mare was much, much worse, and I never had to resort to slapping at her face, or yanking on her nose to fix it...



  13. #73
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    Lawyers have a phrase that is sometimes overworked, but just might be appropriate, here: Res ipsa loquitur.

    "The thing speaks for itself."

    As a legal principle it's not much respected. But in the case of the tape in question it is all that need be said.

    As for "testimonials" on the 'Net, they're worth the paper they're printed on.

    G.



  14. #74
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    which is not an option for Parelli.
    Oh. God. I didn't realize she was already speaking in the third person. Or is it the Royal We?

    InnisFailte Pinto Sporthorses & Coloured Cobs
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Bits are like cats, what's one more? (Petstorejunkie)



  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aven View Post
    Have to say Barney didn't look particularly spooky in that clip.. Also have to say my young tb mare was much, much worse, and I never had to resort to slapping at her face, or yanking on her nose to fix it...
    hmm slapping in the face and yanking... sounds like bad horsemanship or getting a temper!!!



  16. #76
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    I just re-watched the video.
    Honestly, I am not sure you can do enough PR to cover up that sh*t show.
    It was an extremely ineffectual training method, and really, the reasons for *your* response to the horse should be self evident by the horses immediate behavior as that is what you should be reacting to. The whole thing about him being dangerous and terrible spooked was not evident in the video at all. A really dangerous and spooky horse would have fed someone their own teeth and been gone in the first minute. All I saw was a one eyed horse that was trying to observe his surroundings because he didn’t trust the person he was with to do that. Not a bad call since the person he was with was smacking him in the head with his rope.
    The video leaves us before you were finished, so did you finally manage to make him more scared of you then the thing he was trying to look at?



  17. #77
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    Nov. 2, 2001
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    I suppose when a kookaid drinker gets hurt, it's not the program's fault, or the Parellis', it was the dumb horse who didn't understand it.
    So I suppose there won't be a lawsuit anytime soon...
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.



  18. #78
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    I am going to WEG for 5 days and I will try to get an idea of amounts attending the PP thing but since I won't be one of them, may be hard! For those of us who have spent huge amounts of $$$ on competition tickets to see the world's best, very few of us will be watching fake horsemanship that actually teaches the horse not much!
    I have no objection to NH if it produces a horse that is respectful both on and off the ground and can go and do it's job well. Seems PP gurus just play games and teach horses to walk over tarps but not do stuff under saddle. I have no objection to NH if a beginner can learn to safely handle their horse and ride him safely. If we can watch McLain Ward, Steffan Peters, Phillip Dutton, et al, why would we want to watch circus acts?
    I imagine there will be quite a few general admission tickets sold since there will be great shopping and exhibitions as well as the normal KHP things going on and the GA tickets are inexpensive. Horselovers will come just to be surrounded by the ambience of horses and many will think PP is magic because he can bounce a ball off his horse. Sigh.......not much we can do about it except hope they will look around at other sights and question the circus tricks for what they are.



  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by copper1 View Post
    I imagine there will be quite a few general admission tickets sold since there will be great shopping and exhibitions as well as the normal KHP things going on ...
    Maybe not. The shopping is not going to be many of the normal vendors who routinely set up at the shows and events -they wanted 10k to set up in the old Indoor away from the foot traffic pattern. And no campground available, only triple priced hotels.
    More like the big, corporate vendors at this one. Like car and tire companies.

    The KHP is closed mid August to after the games as far as other competitions are concerned. Sure the museum will be open but once you have seen that...alot of us locals are not going to spend $25 to walk around a place we have been many times. They are going to fence off most areas where you could watch schooling or anything like that, need a specific event ticket.

    At least it sounds liike majikal kholrabi sticks will be available along with shakey ropes and dvds aplenty.

    What is sick is more will want to see them and buy the stuff then would want to watch early AM schooling by real riders.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.



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