The Chronicle of the Horse
MagazineNewsHorse SportsHorse CareCOTH StoreVoicesThe Chronicle UntackedDirectoriesMarketplaceDates & Results
 
Results 1 to 15 of 15
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec. 30, 2002
    Location
    Haslett, MI, USA
    Posts
    173

    Default Laminitis/founder - SO CONFUSED!

    My mare developed laminitis and foundered about 6-7 weeks ago. She is likely IR, and was on a course of dexamethasone for a respiratory issue. The dex is the likely cause of the problem. The vet put her in a wedge-type, rocker toe, wooden shoe w/EquiCast and wanted stall rest for at least a month. The shoe made her immediately sound. After 4 weeks I started letting her out of her stall--she was sound for 3 days, then started having some mild lameness. Went back and forth between stall rest and letting her out; mild lameness has been back and forth, but was not feeling much warmth in the feet and digital pulses were barely palpable.

    The shoes came off 3 days ago so she could be trimmed. I didn't take her back to the same vet due to logistical issues. My trimmer is a barefoot guy who has a very good track record for getting foundered horses sound. At the time he took the shoes off, she was sound in the shoes. When he removed them and trimmed her, she immediately began limping again. He tested for any soreness w/hoof testers and she did not react at all. We had radiographs which showed good depth of sole and no sinking. Rotation is 6 degrees in left, 4 degrees in right. Trimmer thought the limping was related to the transition from wedge shoe to barefoot and was likely that the tendons needed time to stretch out.

    So, for the past 3 days, I have turned her out in a small paddock w/her best buddy, and she is being quiet--no charging around or anything. She comes out of her stall in the morning almost completely sound; by mid-afternoon she is limping. Same scenario each day for 3 days. She is on 2 g bute daily. The feet do not feel warm, but I DO feel the digital pulses, and they are stronger than they were when she was in the shoes.

    My question is--does she need to go back to some type of shoe or boot? Do I need to give the barefoot more time? She was more consistently sound when she was in the shoes, although she did have some issues if she went charging around outside. The vet who initially shoed her said she will need more support than just barefoot. The barefoot guy doesn't think so.

    I'm clueless about this and getting opposite opinions. I have NO IDEA what to do! Help!



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep. 25, 2005
    Location
    The Land of the Frozen
    Posts
    13,787

    Default

    This is a situation I most DEFINITELY would not "wait and see" on!!!! If I were the trimmer working on that horse, I'd want her in Easycare Rx or Soft Ride boots with a gel or a Cashel pad inside. The feet DO need time to heal, but they also need to be protected. I would not allow the limping around while barefoot. That just creates more inflammation in the foot, which can lead to bone degeneration, more pain, more inflammation, and so forth. You HAVE to stop that cycle.

    If she is still not sound in the boots with soft pads inside, then I'd say she needs to go back to shoeing until she's had more time to heal.

    Every foundered horse is different and what works for one won't work for another.

    What is her diet like? Did you have bloodwork done?



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun. 12, 2007
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    6,585

    Default

    You found something that was working. Schedule an appt and get her shoes back on. I never like to try to 'fix' something that isn't broken.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov. 4, 2003
    Location
    Dallas, Georgia
    Posts
    17,087

    Default

    She does need the padding and boots to support P3... I would wait on shoes only because more frequent trims will most likely be necessary to keep the heels down.
    <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug. 21, 2004
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    2,610

    Default

    Pay attention to what helps your horse at this moment in time. If it hurts, don't do it. Your horses reaction is far more important than any expert advice.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun. 4, 2002
    Location
    Suffolk, VA
    Posts
    16,684

    Default

    Get some form of hoof protection and support on that horse ASAP. I prefer hoof boots but I'm in the "whatever works" camp. You can try boots but don't hesitate to shoe her if that is what she needs now. I love to use the Old Macs with thick pads in them for founder rehabs. The tread on those boots allows for breakover to be well back under the foot also and they are easy on and off compared to some other styles.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec. 30, 2002
    Location
    Haslett, MI, USA
    Posts
    173

    Default

    Thanks for the advice! Getting boots or shoes is pretty much where I was leaning, so I'm glad to hear that's what others would do. Have been checking out the Soft Ride site and think those boots look like a good place to start.

    Her diet has been changed since the start of this whole thing--she is currently getting 1.5% of body weight timothy hay, 1st cutting, soaked beet pulp w/vitamin-mineral mix, salt, SmartGut, Thyro-L. She initially lost about 50 lbs in the first 2 weeks on the diet, but since then has plateaued and not lost any more. I'm worried about that--she needs to lose more, and it seems as though she's eating almost nothing right now. I use a Nibblenet for her hay to slow that down, but there are still long periods of time where she has nothing to eat because she's getting so little.

    Bloodwork was not done--my vet is just assuming she is IR due to her physical appearance and easy keeper tendencies. She said the blood test is not overly accurate anyway, and if we really want to test it we need to bring her into the hospital and do a glucose tolerance test which will be an overnight thing. I didn't see the point in doing that since its so likely that she is IR, and we are just going ahead and treating her like she is.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec. 16, 2003
    Location
    Staunton, VA, USA
    Posts
    2,520

    Default YOU definitely need to get her comfortable

    It might well require boots/shoes.

    Try soaking the hay, also add in extra magnesium, she will need about 10-20g a day until she is more comfortable.
    I find that addition of chromium also helps. 4- 12 mg per day.

    I also have found that giving horses with active laminitis Acetyl-L-Carnitine helps a lot. ABout 2-5g a day
    And she might benefit from Jiagoluan but only after the initial acute attack. Jiagoluan is very good for a preventative esp in combination with Mg and Cr but it isn't a good idea when she is actively laminitic.

    Without a doubt the Dex was the trigger for this, I hope she is off the steroid.

    Good Luck,
    Hope this helps
    Yours
    MW
    Melyni (PhD) PAS, Dipl. ACAN.
    Sign up for the Equine nutrition enewsletter on www.foxdenequine.com
    New edition of book is out:
    Horse Nutrition Handbook.

    www.knabstruppers4usa.com



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan. 25, 2010
    Posts
    290

    Default

    I also hit a plateau while getting weight off my foundered horse, who was IR (did bloodwork to confirm). I ended up giving her a magnesium supplement (I used Quiessense) and it worked in my situation. Of course, each horse is different. Initially, I did a "loading dose" and now (years down the road, but still always a danger of "relapse") I feed her a scoop of Quiessense daily, and increase the dose if she starts looking cresty. She is at a boarding facility where I do not have control over the quality of the hay, but she is on grass hay only. Sometimes the feeders feel sorry for her and overfeed her, which results in crestyness. I check for pulses and heat every day. Just an idea for you. As far as shoes, we never did wedges, but she did have "special" shoeing by a farrier who was well-schooled in laminitis. As others have said, go with what works. Do not get sidetracked by people who say they have a magical answer to laminitis. And stay away from Dex. If the horse gets any condition where a vet suggests treating with Dex (hives, etc) I suggest you think long and hard about it. IR and Dex is a bad combination.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun. 30, 2005
    Posts
    2,185

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by horsephotolady View Post
    --she is currently getting 1.5% of body weight timothy hay, 1st cutting, soaked beet pulp w/vitamin-mineral mix, salt, SmartGut, Thyro-L. She initially lost about 50 lbs in the first 2 weeks on the diet, but since then has plateaued and not lost any more.
    How much Thryo L are you giving her? We had my gelding on a larger dose for about 3 months until his weight was where we wanted it (he lost 260 lbs.). We cut back to a maintenance dose and immediatly he gained 25 lbs back in a week. We had to adjust the dose a bit to find the right dose to maintain his desired weight
    RIP Sucha Smooth Whiskey
    May 17,2004 - March 29, 2010
    RIP San Lena Peppy
    May 3, 1991 - March 11, 2010



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar. 22, 2005
    Posts
    569

    Default

    Boy o boy, I hate to say it but thank goodness someone else is on this rollercoaster of a ride called 'founder'. My big boy foundered 5 degrees both front feet and can't tolerate his soft ride boots (I bought two different 'squishyness' inserts) for more than an hour, so he's been inside, in his fluffy stall. He just got trimmed again yesterday and didn't need any pain meds before or after, so that's an improvement. Diagnosed with a low thyroid and so he's on the Thryo-L (only two days so far). It's the on and off pain thing that's soo hard to get a grip on. He isn't too antsy about getting outside, so I'll take that as it is. I'm thinking the wedge of the soft ride boot insert may be too dramatic and so I'll try the construction stuff that got mentioned in another post. Oy. At least his personality is still intact. He's a sweet goofball and a lovebug.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun. 30, 2005
    Posts
    2,185

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by My2cents View Post
    Boy o boy, I hate to say it but thank goodness someone else is on this rollercoaster of a ride called 'founder'. My big boy foundered 5 degrees both front feet and can't tolerate his soft ride boots (I bought two different 'squishyness' inserts) for more than an hour, so he's been inside, in his fluffy stall. He just got trimmed again yesterday and didn't need any pain meds before or after, so that's an improvement. Diagnosed with a low thyroid and so he's on the Thryo-L (only two days so far). It's the on and off pain thing that's soo hard to get a grip on. He isn't too antsy about getting outside, so I'll take that as it is. I'm thinking the wedge of the soft ride boot insert may be too dramatic and so I'll try the construction stuff that got mentioned in another post. Oy. At least his personality is still intact. He's a sweet goofball and a lovebug.
    What dose is Spike on Lisa? I would tape him every other day and you should see a difference very quickly. Whiskey was on 3 1/2 scoops once a day. This was his inital dose and then we cut him to 2 1/2 scoops after 3 months and he maintained 1200 lbs until he died.
    RIP Sucha Smooth Whiskey
    May 17,2004 - March 29, 2010
    RIP San Lena Peppy
    May 3, 1991 - March 11, 2010



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar. 22, 2005
    Posts
    569

    Default

    He's on 1 teasp 2x day. I will tape him tomorrow (if I remember, my family just arrived for a visit. Geez, no extra stress ya think?).
    Thanks for asking, Connie.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec. 30, 2002
    Location
    Haslett, MI, USA
    Posts
    173

    Default

    Diamondindykin--thanks for the info about Thyro-L. My vet just has my horse on 2 scoops, and she is a 1350 lb horse, so sounds like that may not be enough to help her weight. I will try increasing that.

    I do soak her hay, so I think I'm doing as much as I can w/the hay.

    Her vitamin/mineral supplement does have magnesium in it, but no chromium, so I can look into getting some of that.

    My2cents: That sucks that the boots are not working for your guy--they're pretty pricey to not work! I was all set to order some; now I'm debating. Sigh... this condition really does suck! My girl just keeps going back and forth w/pain, no pain, heat, no heat, pulses, no pulses. It's VERY frustrating.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar. 22, 2005
    Posts
    569

    Default

    Taped my boy this morning and he's a whopping 1450. Yes, he's part draft and yes, he's ALWAYS had a huge girth. Even though he's 16.1hh, he wears a 84" blanket and a 54" girth for a saddle. I will ask the vet if he thinks the 1 teasp. 2x day is enough to be effective. I don't think he thought he weighed that much. When I say my BIG boy, I mean it .



Similar Threads

  1. Nanric shoes for laminitis/founder?
    By Gryhnd in forum Horse Care
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: Oct. 1, 2012, 01:06 PM
  2. Laminitis/Founder after having hocks injected...
    By PrinceSheik325 in forum Horse Care
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: Sep. 9, 2010, 11:32 AM
  3. Best Laminitis/Founder Supplement
    By Hoy97 in forum Horse Care
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: Aug. 31, 2010, 11:23 PM
  4. Ay Caramba! Topical solution for laminitis and founder
    By LarkspurCO in forum Horse Care
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: Sep. 16, 2009, 07:44 PM
  5. Pro Spinoff: Founder/Laminitis
    By chai in forum Horse Care
    Replies: 135
    Last Post: May. 13, 2008, 12:19 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
randomness