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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalSelection View Post
    I only contest the horse's suitability for eventing, dressage or jumping based on his unusually short, choppy, uncomfortable movement behind (that was immediately spotted by my vet and two trainers) - exactly the kind of thing a professional should have ruled-out.
    I have the mare Bev mentioned in her post above. She really is a talented horse, but she came to me off behind, as have at least two other ottbs I've have. From my experience, if the injury is above the stifle you can expect a lot of healing to occur with time, chiropractry and accupuncture.

    A few months ago my vet ultrasounded the sacroiliac and lumbrosacral joints of a filly here. The ultrasound showed extensive damage to the ligaments of her SI and LS joints. Since this is a relatively new application of ultrasound technology there isn't enough data to use the information we had to make any kind of prognosis. I was not optimistic, however, I'm happy to report she is developing muscle over the injured area and her movement is improving every day. She actually did a floaty trot across the pasture the other day.

    My vet told me that back lamenesses were not even taught in vet schools until after the California Racing mortality studies. So there are those vets out there who have never developed an eye for hind end lamenesses and don't really acknowledge them. Both my vet and my chiro told me that the filly with ligament damage could have easily passed a ppe when she was at her worst.

    Anyway, I guess my point is, if your horse is happy going x-country even though he's obviously not quite right behind, imagine what he might be if you can manage his care so that he heals.

    Good luck with him, he sounds like a keeper.



  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jleegriffith View Post
    I think everyone is looking for the over 16h geldings, who are good looking, athletic and sound for prices under $3500. I think you often have to be in the right place at the right time to find what you are looking for and even then you are still taking a risk that it will want to event. I am still of the opinion that eventing is one of the most challenging disciplines because a horse has to be able to do all three things well in order to be in the ribbons.
    But if you like to ride mares, you should be able to find super talented horses for under $3500.

    I watched Cause I Like It on CANTER PA for months wishing I could squeeze in one more mare. Then her trainer donated her to MidAtlantic Horse Rescue and now I'm hoping to see an eventer snap her up.http://midatlantichorserescue.org/Av...se_Causie.html



  3. #43
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    Jan. 22, 2005
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    From a reputable breeder!!!! There are people that breed specifically for eventing. We sometimes do. And for example I have a friend that is a Holsteiner breeder but works closely with Denny Emerson and bred a retired upper level eventing mare to one of his stallions. You can find such top progeny for sale and in this economy they can be very affordable.

    I love OTTBs and currently own two but I believe in the well bred Holsteiner (or cross with TB) for international eventing. Just look at Cavalier Royale, a Holsteiner stallion that stood Ireland, he's uncle of one of our stallions. He produced extremely well, had two horses in this year's Rolex for example.

    Windfall the famous Trakehner bred lots of mares and his kids are doing well in sport, and there are of course other warmblood breeds that are good for eventing.

    I've found that many eventers now want more movement, bigger gaits and better dressage scores and bigger jump than the average OTTB. TBs still dominate, but there is demand for fancily bred warmbloods/ crosses. Right now breeders are struggling so there are some fantastic deals out there.

    Anna



  4. #44
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    Aug. 4, 2009
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    Question

    Would you give a general price range horse sex/size range and vague idea where you are, the level you have competed thru.

    There are those of us who do have access to OTTB from inside the indusrty who are willing to help out a COTHer for no compensation and put prospects under your nose.

    I shipped one to an advanced rider from out west last week as well as a COTHer both are eventers.

    But we still don't have much in the way of information from you.

    With a little more to go on you would be suprised what COTH can do for you from eyeballs to hands on, sit thru a PPE for you to relay shipping XC.
    But you have to help us really help you.

    PM for details.



  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by SEPowell View Post
    But if you like to ride mares, you should be able to find super talented horses for under $3500.

    I watched Cause I Like It on CANTER PA for months wishing I could squeeze in one more mare. Then her trainer donated her to MidAtlantic Horse Rescue and now I'm hoping to see an eventer snap her up.http://midatlantichorserescue.org/Av...se_Causie.html
    Yes, absolutely! I think the trouble then comes down to what happens if that horse doesn't work out and you have to resell it. I love to ride mares but I find them very challenging to sell especially as prospects. Now if you have them going and can prove they are that nice they are hard to overlook but many people still won't own one.

    I am always browsing MAHR and that is the one that caught my eye.



  6. #46
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    Something else to think about....and I think a few other people have mentioned...look at everything. Don't just check ads for 16 + hand geldings. Look at horses under 16 hands. And look at mares. I prefer them anyways

    Another place to look is HJ barns. There are plenty that might not work for their client base that could be great event horses. You never know where you are going to find the type you are looking for I would keep my eyes open and look at everything that catches your eye within your budget of course



  7. #47
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    Apr. 11, 2001
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    I have to say that with OTTBs I think the limiting factors are more often than not the riding and training as opposed to the horse. That said I would not look at success rates of any BNT or big professional and take much from it. Without speaking specifically about any of the pros mentioned, all pros have the same big problem when it comes to the OTTB: Time is money.

    My experience has been that OTTBs often need more time than other horses because you spend a significant amount of time UN-training in addition to training.

    As an amateur it is an incredible luxury to take as much time as I want or I feel is needed for any given horse. While some folks say they've put so many thousands of dollars into a horse to get him where he is that's not how, as an ammy, I view it at all. I'm spending X amount of my disposable income a month on my riding hobby. If I wasn't riding I'd be spending it on something else. If it takes a year or ten years it doesn't matter because as an ammy I'm spending money to enjoy the process not the product.

    Most pros NEED to train horses on a timeline--some have more leniency in the timing than others, but virtually all have some sort of "reasonable" timeline in their brains. When nice OTTB's are available for a song it makes no sense for a pro to spend copious amounts of time when they can pass that horse along and start on the next until they find not only the physical specimen but also the mental specimen that fits their program. Not a slam--just a dose of reality.

    When it comes to success making up OTTBs, personally I'd bet on the knowledgable and experienced ammy much sooner than I would the pro.



  8. #48
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    Sep. 6, 1999
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    Honestly, if you weren't able to come out and try the horse, if I were Lisa, I would have never agreed to take you on as a client.
    I tried a few horses the first time around and they weren't fits. We talked on the phone, sure, and the horses were lovely. But not until I got there did we know what kind of rider I really was and you need that chemistry with the horse.
    And if the horse had never done an event before, that's not her fault that the horse may not suit eventing. You never know. That's the awful crapshoot of buying a horse.
    Go ride the horse for yourself!
    We had looked at a newly imported horse. He was wonderful. I truly adored this guy. Just because I've never spent a lot of money on a horse, I decided to get him vetted anyway even though he was just vetted prior to coming here from Germany. Well, he didn't pass! Everyone was shocked, including the owners who were trying to make a business of it. The horse's pasterns were too long and at such a broken angle that he wasn't going to hold up to x-c. And you just really couldn't see how bad it was until the x-ray.
    It's just a part of buying a horse. Sucks but true.



  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalSelection View Post
    ! I only contest the horse's suitability for eventing, dressage or jumping based on his unusually short, choppy, uncomfortable movement behind (that was immediately spotted by my vet and two trainers) - exactly the kind of thing a professional should have ruled-out.
    I have no idea if it applies to this horse, but many horses coming "straight off the track" move "choppy behind". (It has to do with the muscles that are and aren't used in racing.)

    Most of them move much better after they have been "let down" for a while. But, of course, you can't count on it.

    How long had this horse been off the track?

    Are your local vet and trainers familir with the way "straight off the track" horses look and move?
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



  10. #50
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  11. #51
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    Most of the sprinters I bought off the track have had choppy movement until their muscles develop from racing muscles into riding muscles. A lot of them stay like that for a couple months.



  12. #52
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    Ditto to the whole hind end thing. I had someone recently tell me they wouldn't take one of the horses I have for free because he wasn't a good enough mover when all they want to do is lower levels I just gave them the nod because what I know is that these horse change drastically with let down time and remuscling. Many of them come off the track very strange behind and if you didn't know any better you would think they are lame. If they have the correct conformation it should resolve itself. Not saying that it always does but give a horse 4-6 months of rest and proper conditioning and you can be looking at a different animal.

    The horse they passed on is about the quietest horse that I have had come through my barn and really isn't on the market except for my vet keeps coming over and seeing him and then telling everyone how I have a lovely quiet horse in my barn that people should buy because she likes him so much.

    Subk- your post is spot on! It takes time and sometimes you really have no clue how much time it is going to take. Many come along super fast and move right up the levels and others take a few years to mentally mature. Doesn't mean they aren't talented but they need more time. Pro's do not have the time to wait when money is the name of the game.



  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderment View Post
    Who was it that said... "You never know if a horse is going to go advanced until they're at that 2* ready to move up." Oh wait, just about everybody said that.
    And really, you don't know you have a ** horse until you finish your SECOND **. Any good horse will finish his first...you know they have the heart for it when they gallop outta that start back AFTER tackling their first big ** and go for it again.
    Many have a taste and say, "thank you but no thank you!"

    The best place to find a good horse on a budget is in someones back yard.
    The best place to find an upper level prospect is in your back yard--after several years of training and showing the horse that you bought out of someones back yard.
    ; )

    Otherwise, go look at purpose bred sport horses.
    http://kaboomeventing.com/
    http://kaboomeventing.blogspot.com/
    Horses are amazing athletes and make no mistake -- they are the stars of the show!



  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janet View Post
    I have no idea if it applies to this horse, but many horses coming "straight off the track" move "choppy behind". (It has to do with the muscles that are and aren't used in racing.)

    Most of them move much better after they have been "let down" for a while. But, of course, you can't count on it.

    How long had this horse been off the track?

    Are your local vet and trainers familir with the way "straight off the track" horses look and move?
    She's had the horse since November of 2009, and from the videos she sent me, the horse looks like any other OTTB is going to look with very little let down time (because honestly, how much could there have been since Nov?) or training (again, not a lot of time to gain strength) with a rider who isn't allowing them to go forward. She's practically got the poor guy inching along, and wonders why his stride is short.

    There's nothing actually wrong with the horse (checked out ok at PPE and by other vets), he just doesn't track up enough in the walk/trot for she and her trainer's taste. Obviously, he was misrepresented and is totally unsuited for eventing

    ETA: I don't know Lisa personally, but I have seen the horses that she sends down to some trainers around here, and every single one of them are lovely. But, they do initially need to learn how to use themselves correctly. This isn't a reflection of the horse or the broker, it's just the way it is when you get a horse off the track.

    Additionally, I've worked with a LOT of OTTB's, and it irritates me when someone gets one and is too hard on them. "Oh, he's tense/short strided/choppy/etc". Well yes, they've done the opposite of what you want them to do most of their lives. Give them plenty of time off, bring them back to work slowly, and for goodness sakes let them go forward and use themselves before asking for collection and all that other exciting stuff. I've had plenty of people pass on horses I have because they move like a normal OTTB after only a month of training, only to see them at shows later and not be able to believe it's the same horse. People need to be realistic and patient when purchasing a horse off the track, and a surprising number of riders aren't. That's not the horse's fault, that's their and their team's fault.
    Last edited by Coppers mom; May. 4, 2010 at 07:44 PM.



  15. #55
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    I agree with everyone who says the OTTBs come off the track funky. I always say they need to learn HOW to trot (since they've spent the majority of their short lives cantering and galloping. What little trotting they've done is usually a bunched up, anxious, jig). Vernon had ZERO trot when I got him (and he'd been let down for a few months). That was actually why the hunter barn wasn't keeping him as a project, even though he was already proving to be very nice over fences. I had a feeling there was a trot there, and, sure enough, there is a good trot in my horse (though, I still can't quite get the trot he shows off in the field, under tack! ). Patience, strength, patience, training, patience, and time brought it out.

    Besides, to me, it's all about the canter in an event prospect....if they have a killer canter, I know I can fix the trot. No canter, not worth my time.



  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by yellowbritches View Post
    I agree with everyone who says the OTTBs come off the track funky. I always say they need to learn HOW to trot (since they've spent the majority of their short lives cantering and galloping. What little trotting they've done is usually a bunched up, anxious, jig). Vernon had ZERO trot when I got him (and he'd been let down for a few months). That was actually why the hunter barn wasn't keeping him as a project, even though he was already proving to be very nice over fences. I had a feeling there was a trot there, and, sure enough, there is a good trot in my horse (though, I still can't quite get the trot he shows off in the field, under tack! ). Patience, strength, patience, training, patience, and time brought it out.

    Besides, to me, it's all about the canter in an event prospect....if they have a killer canter, I know I can fix the trot. No canter, not worth my time.
    This is what I tell a lot of people that are looking at buying a horse off the track, well that and reschooling TBs is not for everyone, just because you can ride doesn't mean you can re train a tb



  17. #57
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    Default It's about you.

    I am not putting you down it really is about you and the comfort you have with any horse presented to you to ride. A lot of stinkers come to trainers...some of those stinkers are upper level horses who didn't get along with their original trainer or re-trainer. There are many horses that are picked up that have no place to go if someone can't get on and ride a challenging horse forward. They may not even really be a stinker but they scared someone with their ability, attitude, energy...the very things that make them successful when they find their rider...their person. Many are hard to resell too...even if they have their pluses and minuses well understood because they are more forward, quicker, more avid. More than a few end up as upper level horses because they CAN'T be sold for profit especially these days where people do not get seat of the pants learning and they do not like to ever be afraid on a horse.

    You have a better chance of finding a gem if you can get you butt on a lot of horses. If you have the mindset that is flexible and finds interesting horses everywhere. If you have to find that one of a kind match for you then you need to save your money and look for a trained horse and start talking to the trainers. You can get a better start by taking on a horse thay have pre filtered from the large number of horses out there. You pay for their work but it won't have to be a finished horse.

    There are many many many more horses that can go to upper levels than ever get the chance to try. The limiting factor is not horses but riders. We have very very few riders who can get to that level. It is not that there are great riders out there who can't find a great horse...great riders make their own horses and they love those horses for their complications and foibles and challenges. You take a nice looking horse and you make them the best horse you can and learn all you can and do it again.

    Right now I have a nice young horse out with a young event trainer. In my area(Minnesota) there have been a number of international level riders who found the support of local riders and horse owners. Were I you I would go to local breeders and ask if they have a nice horse who might be game for upper level eventing and work out a plan with them if they do. It will be a win win situation.

    If you are moving re-trains off the track to gain experience I think there ARE some things you need to watch for. A blemished unattractive horse could go to Rolex but a blemished unattractive horse can't get sold as easily as an unblemished attractive. You pay your way with the resells you need to know what sells.

    If you don't like to ride a lot of iffy horses then you need to be honest with yourself about how good you would be at the job of picking up racehorses until you find that special one. PatO



  18. #58
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    In my experience there are an awful lot of horses coming off the track with sacroiliac injuries period. Comes from undeveloped use of the hindquarters and the quick starts out of the gates, or deep/sloppy footing during training. It just takes time and you absolutely have to begin to develop those muscles and let them stretch and strengthen. Hills are your friend after time to heal.
    "I have brought on the hatred of Wall Street and I relish it".
    Franklin Delano Roosevelt



  19. #59
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    May. 2, 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by columbus View Post
    I am not putting you down it really is about you and the comfort you have with any horse presented to you to ride. A lot of stinkers come to trainers...some of those stinkers are upper level horses who didn't get along with their original trainer or re-trainer. There are many horses that are picked up that have no place to go if someone can't get on and ride a challenging horse forward. They may not even really be a stinker but they scared someone with their ability, attitude, energy...the very things that make them successful when they find their rider...their person. Many are hard to resell too...even if they have their pluses and minuses well understood because they are more forward, quicker, more avid. More than a few end up as upper level horses because they CAN'T be sold for profit especially these days where people do not get seat of the pants learning and they do not like to ever be afraid on a horse.
    Great point! I have a cute little mare right now that if she didn't have her quirks, would be an expensive CH/AA jumper. She is clean, fast, bold and fairly simple. Just let her go forward....and do not touch her face But hot hot hot! And prone to temper tantrums. She's not an upper level prospect but she is a perfect example of finding something a little outside the box that works for my needs If we had the time, we could easily move up to the low A/O division. I couldn't have afforded her if she actually had brakes I found her at a dealer's lot getting set to get on the truck going to auction I was in the right place at the right time and hot happens to be my type of horse



  20. #60
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    I like this boy:

    http://nhrexracers.proboards.com/ind...y&thread=32603

    No idea if he'd do the UL, but he's cute enough that you'd have no problem reselling him if he didn't work out.
    Horse Show Names Free name website with over 6200 names. Want to add? PM me!



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