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  1. #1
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    Dec. 11, 2009
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    Default Where to find upper level event prospects? (canter ect.)

    I'm interested in finding a potential upper level event prospect (like everyone else ) but on a budget. I am curious if anyone knows of anywhere else to look similar Canter.org or if anyone knows of any good breeders/stables that sell young prospects for riders on a budget. Thanks guys!



  2. #2
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    Where are you located?

    Honestly if you are on a budget it can be a bit of a crapshoot. I profiled a bunch of horses from Rolex, and they were all over the board, from purpose bred sport TBs to horses that flunked out of racing with 5 starts and 5 last place finishes (the type of horse you can get for under $500 at many low level claiming tracks). Several ran at VERY low level claiming tracks, too (courageous comet ran at fingerlakes, The Foreman, Brandenburg's Joshua, and Draco raced at Charles Town, Madison Park raced at Mountaineer).

    Really, I think picking them out is equal parts experience, eye/imagination, and luck.

    I of course would definitely recommend looking at CANTER since I'm involved- there are some really nice ones out there, and even in the rehoming programs which people tend to forget about a lot

    Other similar programs -

    Fingerlakes TAP
    Friends of Ferdinand
    Exceller Fund
    Re-Run
    Adena Springs retirement program
    New Vocations
    Mid Atlantic Horse Rescue

    I'm probably missing a whole bunch.

    But there are lots of nice horses through all these programs, either still at the track or even in adoption programs.
    "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

    My CANTER blog.



  3. #3
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    Oct. 1, 2003
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    Default What's your price etc. . .

    What's your budget? The ones I know of with potential are going to be 25K and up. I would say potential for uppper level is going training level clean xc and stadium and dressage is very good also sound and sane.

    IMHO anything that's showing any potential has been costing someone money in training, event fees and vet bills. If potential was easy to find everyone would own one.

    However there are people who have OTTBs that are showing potential ie: jumping 2' 6" happy to work, but can't say upper level potential yet.

    You can PM me and I can put you in touch with someone who does OTTBs and has a couple showing potential for all of the above.
    RIP Kelly 1977-2007 "Wither thou goest, so shall I"

    "To tilt when you should withdraw is Knightly too."



  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eventer55 View Post
    What's your budget? The ones I know of with potential are going to be 25K and up. I would say potential for uppper level is going training level clean xc and stadium and dressage is very good also sound and sane.

    However there are people who have OTTBs that are showing potential ie: jumping 2' 6" happy to work, but can't say upper level potential yet.
    Truly, I dont think winning Training level is any more of a guarantee than a fresh OTTB showing talent and potential.

    You dont REALLY know until they get up there. You can look at a horse, ride a horse, and see and feel that they have the goods, regardless of what level they are competing at. But since most horses can go Training with relative ease, I dont think thats any more proof of potential than anything else.



  5. #5
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    Dec. 11, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eventer55 View Post
    What's your budget? The ones I know of with potential are going to be 25K and up. I would say potential for uppper level is going training level clean xc and stadium and dressage is very good also sound and sane.

    IMHO anything that's showing any potential has been costing someone money in training, event fees and vet bills. If potential was easy to find everyone would own one.

    However there are people who have OTTBs that are showing potential ie: jumping 2' 6" happy to work, but can't say upper level potential yet.

    You can PM me and I can put you in touch with someone who does OTTBs and has a couple showing potential for all of the above.
    I completely understand and agree with what you are saying. Thats why i say upper level POTENTIAL not future upper level horse. It's alot of luck and a good eye. And I'm really just looking for a horse that is most likely an off the track horse, either directly or if there is a person somebody has in mind that gets horses of the track, gives them time off, does w/t/c then sells them for $5000. I'm not looking for a horse that is already competing. I'm looking for something that has what it takes to potentially go to the upper levels. Thanks again! I'll PM you :]



  6. #6
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    Dec. 11, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobthehorse View Post
    Truly, I dont think winning Training level is any more of a guarantee than a fresh OTTB showing talent and potential.

    You dont REALLY know until they get up there. You can look at a horse, ride a horse, and see and feel that they have the goods, regardless of what level they are competing at. But since most horses can go Training with relative ease, I dont think thats any more proof of potential than anything else.
    I totally agree, and thats all i'm looking for. Someone that has the goods to potentially (key word) get there.



  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChloieBell View Post
    I'm looking for something that has what it takes to potentially go to the upper levels.
    That's the super tricky part

    Two people can buy two lightly started 16.2 horses off the track with similar conformation, both vetting cleanly. One will top out at Novice, the other goes to Rolex.

    I think for people really seriously looking for an upper level talent, if you want to shop this way you have to be willing to do a lot of gambling. And you might end up going through a bunch of horses that won't work before finding the one that will. Hard to say which approach is really "cheaper" for those on a budget.

    That said, there's apparently a half brother to "Coal Creek" available out in Washington State (the breeder/owner commented on my blog to that effect - they owned Coal Creek for his 7 start racing career, heh)
    "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

    My CANTER blog.



  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChloieBell View Post
    I completely understand and agree with what you are saying. Thats why i say upper level POTENTIAL not future upper level horse. It's alot of luck and a good eye. And I'm really just looking for a horse that is most likely an off the track horse, either directly or if there is a person somebody has in mind that gets horses of the track, gives them time off, does w/t/c then sells them for $5000. I'm not looking for a horse that is already competing. I'm looking for something that has what it takes to potentially go to the upper levels. Thanks again! I'll PM you :]
    The thing is, you can't tell untill you get there whetehr or not a horse has uper level potential.

    You can rule OUT some early (conformation, soundness, attitude), but you can't figure out which ones havea ral shot at it.

    Two examples.

    A couple of years ago, Phyllis Dawson (who has a good eye and knows what she is doing) gave a talk about buying TBs off the track. She said that over the last few years, she had bought over 200 event prospects off the track. She only bought ones SHE thought had eventing portential.

    I may have the precise numbers wromg, but this is the gist of what she said.

    Only about half of them ever made it to an event. The rest were sold to do something else, whether it was H/J, Dressage, trail riding, or just companion.

    Of the remaining 100, about 5 made it to Intermediate or above, about 20 made it to Prelim, and the rest were Training or below.

    So, yes, there are upper level horses off the track, but in order to get ONE, you have to go though about 40 that look as if they have potential, but don't pan out. Or wait until some one else has done the "panning out", at which point is it no longer an affordable horse.

    Conversely, some horses that don't seem to have potential DO pan out. When my sister bought Sportscar, it was just to have SOMETHING to go N and T while waiting for her young horse to grow up.

    At each level they thought, "well MAYBE she can do the next level, but that will be it", but she ended up proving them wrong, until the only "next level" she didn't do was **** (but she DID qualify for Rolex).

    Meanwhile, the young horse that was bought to be an upper level horse turned out to be a N/T type horse.
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



  9. #9
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    Aug. 13, 2002
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    Default

    What Janet said.



  10. #10
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    Janet, Thank you for your story. I want to explain though, i know 100% that its a total crapshoot buying an ottb and hoping it can event. I would be happy to go safely ride around training level for sure but preliminary would also be great. I know that there is a very small chance that buying a horse of the track that it will actually be the horse that i'm looking for and they may have to be sold to do something else. Point taken, and i agree 100%. I'm not planning on doing Rolex. Just hoping to get some help on where i can look to find these potential horses. Thank you Janet! :]



  11. #11
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    Two of the nicest young horses I have found yet were just horses I stumbled upon while window shopping. The little mare I found (who I still say could be a world beater if she was ever in the right program/consistently in the right program) I just stumbled upon on equine.com (searching young, green, and cheap TB and TB type horses). My horse, Vernon, I didn't even MEAN to find. I was just surfing on virginiaequestrian.com one afternoon, saw him, liked his look, went and gave him a try and bought him (he was actually supposed to be a re-sale project, but he had different ideas). I like going that route because, while neither horse had any serious training, they both had been let down from the track and introduced to being a riding horse. Saw a little more of their mind by being let down and not track horses than I have ever saw by just scrounging around on the track (not that they're not there, they're just harder to see).



  12. #12
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    Well, you could talk to Phyllis or Courtney.
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



  13. #13
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    Oct. 25, 2009
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    Who was it that said... "You never know if a horse is going to go advanced until they're at that 2* ready to move up." Oh wait, just about everybody said that.

    I laugh when people tell me they have a "Rolex Prospect" or even "3* Prospect" because the stars have to REALLY align for that horse to get there.

    It has to:
    *Be sane enough in dressage, ability to gallop fast on XC but bring it back for SJ
    *Be sound after many MANY competitions
    *Have the right capable rider
    *Have the funding to get there
    *Have a sound RIDER at the end of it all...

    And what happens when he nicks a tendon in the field. Then it's stall rest, re-conditioning, vet bills, etc.

    If you want a upper level horse, but you're on a budget... I'd say find a new sport. Eventing is expensive, and there's not a whole lot of prize money involved until you actually get to the 1* 2* or Advanced level. Its the bitter truth. Jumpers has major prize money. Hunters... Racing...



  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janet View Post
    The thing is, you can't tell untill you get there whetehr or not a horse has uper level potential.

    You can rule OUT some early (conformation, soundness, attitude), but you can't figure out which ones havea ral shot at it.

    Two examples.

    A couple of years ago, Phyllis Dawson (who has a good eye and knows what she is doing) gave a talk about buying TBs off the track. She said that over the last few years, she had bought over 200 event prospects off the track. She only bought ones SHE thought had eventing portential.

    I may have the precise numbers wromg, but this is the gist of what she said.

    Only about half of them ever made it to an event. The rest were sold to do something else, whether it was H/J, Dressage, trail riding, or just companion.

    Of the remaining 100, about 5 made it to Intermediate or above, about 20 made it to Prelim, and the rest were Training or below.

    So, yes, there are upper level horses off the track, but in order to get ONE, you have to go though about 40 that look as if they have potential, but don't pan out. Or wait until some one else has done the "panning out", at which point is it no longer an affordable horse.

    Conversely, some horses that don't seem to have potential DO pan out. When my sister bought Sportscar, it was just to have SOMETHING to go N and T while waiting for her young horse to grow up.

    At each level they thought, "well MAYBE she can do the next level, but that will be it", but she ended up proving them wrong, until the only "next level" she didn't do was **** (but she DID qualify for Rolex).

    Meanwhile, the young horse that was bought to be an upper level horse turned out to be a N/T type horse.
    Also, Phyllis has a ton of experience under her belt and can guess on the brain. Your sister knew 'something' about Sportscar even though when she tried her, honestly, I was shaking my head like 'you're nuts' because she would NOT under any circumstances go over a ditch. I would have chucked her back right then and there. BUT your sister knew something was in there. That comes from experience.
    Most young people who make it to the top on an OTTB or the like ought to go to Vegas and win lots of money because they are VERY lucky people.



  15. #15
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    Your post is bordering on advertising, so be careful.

    Besides what others have said, you can increase your chances of finding a good prospect by telling everyone you know that you are looking. My 2-star horse came from a back-woods field - an ULR had gone to see him but passed because she already had too many horses, and he was going to require a lot of TLC to gain weight/fix feet first. She did see potential though, and sent us to go look at him.

    If you go the track/CANTER route, it would be worth your while to spend $200-500 and pay someone with a good eye to come with you.
    Blugal

    You never know what kind of obsessive compulsive crazy person you are until another person imitates your behaviour at a three-day. --Gry2Yng



  16. #16
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    A couple of years ago, Phyllis Dawson (who has a good eye and knows what she is doing) gave a talk about buying TBs off the track. She said that over the last few years, she had bought over 200 event prospects off the track. She only bought ones SHE thought had eventing portential.

    I may have the precise numbers wromg, but this is the gist of what she said.

    Only about half of them ever made it to an event. The rest were sold to do something else, whether it was H/J, Dressage, trail riding, or just companion.

    Of the remaining 100, about 5 made it to Intermediate or above, about 20 made it to Prelim, and the rest were Training or below.

    So, yes, there are upper level horses off the track, but in order to get ONE, you have to go though about 40 that look as if they have potential, but don't pan out.
    Actually, according to your post, you might find 5 out of 200. That's a 2.5% chance of finding an upper level prospect off the track.
    Tranquility Farm - Proud breeder of Born in the USA Sport Horses, and Cob-sized Warmbloods
    Now apparently completely invisible!



  17. #17
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    Dec. 11, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderment View Post
    Who was it that said... "You never know if a horse is going to go advanced until they're at that 2* ready to move up." Oh wait, just about everybody said that.

    I laugh when people tell me they have a "Rolex Prospect" or even "3* Prospect" because the stars have to REALLY align for that horse to get there.

    It has to:
    *Be sane enough in dressage, ability to gallop fast on XC but bring it back for SJ
    *Be sound after many MANY competitions
    *Have the right capable rider
    *Have the funding to get there
    *Have a sound RIDER at the end of it all...

    And what happens when he nicks a tendon in the field. Then it's stall rest, re-conditioning, vet bills, etc.

    If you want a upper level horse, but you're on a budget... I'd say find a new sport. Eventing is expensive, and there's not a whole lot of prize money involved until you actually get to the 1* 2* or Advanced level. Its the bitter truth. Jumpers has major prize money. Hunters... Racing...
    I'm sorry if i am upsetting people with my post. I just wanted to know other sites similar to Canter. What i do with that and my money is my decision and my responsibility nobody elses. There is one person here that actually responded with some very helpful links. Thanks for your help, but as i have said multiple times, i understand COMPLETELY the odds are about one in a million but like i said im looking for a promising horse to purchase.



  18. #18
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    Dec. 11, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blugal View Post
    Your post is bordering on advertising, so be careful.

    Besides what others have said, you can increase your chances of finding a good prospect by telling everyone you know that you are looking. My 2-star horse came from a back-woods field - an ULR had gone to see him but passed because she already had too many horses, and he was going to require a lot of TLC to gain weight/fix feet first. She did see potential though, and sent us to go look at him.

    If you go the track/CANTER route, it would be worth your while to spend $200-500 and pay someone with a good eye to come with you.
    I really wouldn't call it advertising. I'm asking for sites similar to canter. Or breeders that people have had good experiences buying rested ottb. And yes i completely plan on bringing a professional with me.



  19. #19
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    I've had surprisingly good luck on Equine.com and dreamhorse.com. I have bought (over a 10 year period) approximately 30 horses, all green at the time of purchase (none on the track, but one as close as 3 weeks from his last race, a mix of OTTBs and various WB/TB, QHx, Paintx, random cross horses). I paid between $1000 and $6000 for all of them. 9 of those have gone preliminary or above. Another was talented enough, but was injured at the training level, a couple were not mentally available, despite their physical talent, several were bought from me by riders who had no interest in the upper levels, one will hopefully move up to preliminary next year, and 2 are lovely talented horses with no interest in eventing, etc.

    In your OP, you said upper level, but then later you said preliminary. Many responding interpreted upper level to mean at least 2-star level, which I think is much harder (3 of those 9 went 2 star or higher). I would say most sound, reasonably sane TBs can easily go training level if they are mentally willing to do it and in a program. Several on this board work with Canter or orgs like it or buy and resell TBs. There is mid-atlantic rescue, re-run (partner for Jersey Fresh this year), the Maker's Mark Secretariat Center at the Kentucky Horse Park, Ishi (on this board), JLeeGriffith (on this board), MapleShade (on this board - I have bought 2 from her and would do so again), Finger Lakes Rescue (do a search on this board for links), http://www.brandamorebridgefarm.com/, the USEA area sites, etc. good luck
    OTTBs rule, but spots are good too!



  20. #20
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    Aug. 28, 2004
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    Also, www.threeplainbays.com has a lot of OTTB's.

    Lisa Reid is supposed to be very good with matching people and horses, I know she finds a lot for people in this area, several of which have gone prelim and up. www.reidtowin.com.

    Adam Gamble at www.abbeymoorfarm.com always has a revolving door of OTTB's coming through.

    If you go to pedigreequery.com, they have horse ads running across the top. I think it links to equinenow.com, but I'm not totally sure. They always seem to have a lot of TB's that aren't cutting it for racing and are pretty cheap.



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