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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec. 7, 2006
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    Jupiter, FL
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    977

    Default Stallion for best hunter TROT

    I know this has been posted before, but don't see the threads, just humor me? Name-only response is fine.
    I'm just interested in quickly comparing the best overall WB stallions looking solely upon movement at the trot (assuming otherwise decent canter and jump of course).

    Thanks!!



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec. 25, 2002
    Location
    Georgia
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    2,670

    Default

    Doesn't Westporte put a great trot on his offspring?



  3. #3
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    Dec. 7, 2006
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    Jupiter, FL
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    Default

    He's one of my fav's for this year; just wanted to get the list again and be sure I am not forgetting anyone.



  4. #4
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    Mar. 17, 2006
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    Sunbury, NC
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    Default

    I think Don Alfredo consistently puts a nice flat knee on them?
    Signature Sporthorses
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  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr. 28, 2009
    Posts
    357

    Default

    APIRO



  6. #6

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by risingstarfarm View Post
    Doesn't Westporte put a great trot on his offspring?
    Yes, most definitely! But your esteemed group of stallions seem to do pretty good passing good movement to their offspring.

    There are so many stallions that have fantastic hunter trots. Personally, I believe after speaking to lots of breeders, that the mare is also a huge part of the equation. I would suggest talking to stallion owners and looking at websites. The "good hunter movement stallion list" is quite extensive. You seem to have a good thing going!

    Perhaps re-visit the superb group of stallions listed on the IHF site. I always go there and click away!

    http://www.inthf.org
    ~ Bill Rube ~
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  7. #7

    Default

    Westporte is a great suggestion. I saw Federalist in person and was impressed with his trot. He isn't mentioned as much on the BBs but I think a very good one to look into. I have also seen quite a few Don Alfredo kids that had super trots.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar. 17, 2006
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    Sunbury, NC
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    Default

    I agree with SB, and we've found it is true - the mare determines more of the trot mechanics than the stallion, unless they are just hugely prepotent for passing on a flat knee, etc. Our best hunter moving mare has the best hunter moving foal every year, regardless of stallion choice. We've made sure to only have good hunter moving mares so we can use stallions with variety of movement types for other strengths.

    In my humble experience, you are much more likely to get a fabulous hunter mover if you start with a flat kneed mare that needs elasticity/scope to her gaits (using a stallion with more movement than you'd ideally like but big and elastic trot). If you use a bad moving mare/mare with knee or fetlock action with a better moving stallion, you're not as likely to get what you're looking for, just IMO. When I see a fantastic moving foal, I have come to ask what the dam's breeding is first actually.

    Watch a bunch of mare and foal videos and truly analyze the foal trotting next to the mare what the similarities are. The foal may have more lightness, suspension, etc, but watch the way the legs move and break over. That is when I realized it myself.
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  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb. 9, 2005
    Location
    Upper Midwest
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    6,499

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Signature View Post
    I agree with SB, and we've found it is true - the mare determines more of the trot mechanics than the stallion, unless they are just hugely prepotent for passing on a flat knee, etc. Our best hunter moving mare has the best hunter moving foal every year, regardless of stallion choice.

    In my humble experience, you are much more likely to get a fabulous hunter mover if you start with a flat kneed mare that needs elasticity/scope to her gaits (using a stallion with more movement than you'd ideally like but big and elastic trot). If you use a bad moving mare/mare with knee or fetlock action with a better moving stallion, you're not as likely to get what you're looking for, just IMO.

    Watch a bunch of mare and foal videos and truly analyze the foal trotting next to the mare what the similarities are. The foal may have more lightness, suspension, etc, but watch the way the legs move and break over. That is when I realized it myself.
    I agree with Signature.

    I think I said this on a different thread on this topic, but a friend is a breeder (of much larger numbers than I even aspire to) and after watching her foal crops each year it really seems to come from the mare. The stallion may add more suspension or tweak it a bit though. Just my experience--I'm sure there are exceptions!
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  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr. 13, 2005
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    4,147

    Default

    I think Zarr should win this contest...

    Another one who is nice & not often mentioned is Everest.



  11. #11
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    Jun. 7, 2001
    Location
    Germany
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    2,534

    Default

    I'd say Show Star can make beautiful hunter trots. Riccione as well and I would say Lord Loxley should have that potential as well as he produces a great shoulder without a lot of knee.
    We are raising a wonderful Hochadel-Escudo for a client who screams hunter with his trot. That is I think a fairly proven hunter-recipe to take a really nice, elastic jumper mare and breed her to something typey that is bred more for dressage. The nicest Hunters I've seen out and about were bred like that if they weren't TB's altogether. Will be interesting to follow this thread as so much depends on the damline



  12. #12
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    Mar. 17, 2006
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    Sunbury, NC
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    Too funny, I've been desperate to use Show Star but there is no frozen for the US. GRRRRR!! He has the jump in the pedigree too which is nice. Also funny, Kareen, because that is our personal recipe (most of our mares are jumper bred and we breed more to dressage horses), and people say, "a dressage stallion couldn't possibly make a hunter!" That's ok, let them think that....

    Also we tried to buy Riccione but he was no longer being offered to the US due to sale. I think you can get him now but it's way more $$.

    I've seen many fabulous hunter movers out of Davignon line mares. Also Furst Impression (I love Florestan lines for the elasticity) has put a lovely trot on our new foal, but the dam moves great too, he did add the elasticity we wanted.

    I also seem to like A line stallions for hunter movers. Autocrat, Anhaltiner, Andric, Alesi (Shine), come to mind. May not themselves be a total 10 but with the right mare I feel can make it.

    We are also using Harvard this year. Hohenstein can throw the flat knee and all the type too.

    Aprio with our very fancy flat kneed Trakehner last year made a stunning moving foal - was 2nd on the line at Warrenton. He added the suspension and elasticity that the mare was needing. We used him on our TB this year that is a daisy cutter but not a ton of step to increase the scope of her gaits and athleticism/jump but hopefully keep the flat knee/pointy toe. We should hopefully see the results in the next 2-3 days

    People say they don't breed for movement at all because it doesn't matter, but we sell a lot of adult horses and I tell ya, everyone who calls wants "the hack winner". We have a heck of a time selling a good jumping, bad moving horse. Just personal preference. It maybe shouldn't be the sole focus but certainly should be highly considered when breeding hunters.
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  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct. 21, 2003
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    8,702

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    Signature,
    Interesting input on the lines you like. There is a gelding by Davignon at my barn that, if he were a hunter (he was a FEI level dressage horse) would be a hack winner in any company, 3 nice gaits but a trot that causes me to gasp every time I see him, WOW. Davignon's son Dacaprio looks to me like if he were ridden long and lower he would be a nice hunter himself.

    I have seen horses by DiNiro, Domiro and Dacaprio all with gorgeous hunter movement, and from what I hear Donarwiess is producing nice hunter types with a lovely trot. All this points to me that the Donarhall line CAN produce very nice hunter type trots.

    I was particularly interested in you mentioning Hohenstein as another one to produce hunter type movers, since Donarwiess is DeNiro-Hohenstein. What do you think of him as a hunter sire?

    In my imaginary breeding for my G-Line mare I chose Donarweiss as a dual purpose dressage/hunter foal.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec. 8, 2004
    Posts
    487

    Default

    I would agree with Westporte and Don Alfredo.

    Signature makes a very good point that the mare is a huge part of the equation though!



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec. 14, 2007
    Location
    Wilsonville, Ontario, CANADA
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    4,671

    Default

    Probably hands down - Zarr ...

    His babies all seem to be incredible movers with phenomenal trots on all of them

    The yearling filly I have by Zarr is enough to make your jaw drops when she moves

    Zarr all the way ...



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov. 25, 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    812

    Default

    I have to agree Westporte in phenomenal and all of his get that I've seen have a jaw dropping trot. My filly is by Le Mode and she has a very nice trot. So do most of his offspring and they have the temperament to match!



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Sep. 27, 2007
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    122

    Default Escudo I and Sir Wanabi

    I have used both these stallions and got foals with a good hunter trot out of the same mare.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Mar. 20, 2010
    Location
    Bucks County, PA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Perfect Pony View Post
    Signature,
    Interesting input on the lines you like. There is a gelding by Davignon at my barn that, if he were a hunter (he was a FEI level dressage horse) would be a hack winner in any company, 3 nice gaits but a trot that causes me to gasp every time I see him, WOW. Davignon's son Dacaprio looks to me like if he were ridden long and lower he would be a nice hunter himself.

    I have seen horses by DiNiro, Domiro and Dacaprio all with gorgeous hunter movement, and from what I hear Donarwiess is producing nice hunter types with a lovely trot. All this points to me that the Donarhall line CAN produce very nice hunter type trots.

    I was particularly interested in you mentioning Hohenstein as another one to produce hunter type movers, since Donarwiess is DeNiro-Hohenstein. What do you think of him as a hunter sire?

    In my imaginary breeding for my G-Line mare I chose Donarweiss as a dual purpose dressage/hunter foal.
    I have an 09 Donarweiss filly (damsire is Tantris, a GP Dressage stallion) who I have gotten a few offers for from Hunter riders! I think she has a lot of suspension and knee. I think they like her mostly because she is big, black, with four white socks and a star!
    Last edited by Callaway; Apr. 29, 2010 at 07:00 AM. Reason: spelling error!



  19. #19
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    Mar. 17, 2006
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    Sunbury, NC
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    Zarr just does not do it for me (at least in the last video I saw of him), but of course, to each their own. Of course he is a good mover but to me, not a 10. I am talking in varying degrees of great here. LOL The foals all seem to move well so it is good he is passing on lovely movement! That is important in a stallion, prepotency. I am admittedly terribly picky about movement and just like anything else in the hunter world, it's all just someone's personal opinion. Sometimes I think horses are getting so nice, how can they get any better???

    Very interesting Callaway, as we saw Tantris at a stallion expo a few years ago and did think he would make a good hunter mover. And I like Donarweiss also, though I wish he had a bit more "umph" (elasticity).

    One of our favorites was Donatelli, and we were crushed when he passed. We had 3 freakish hunter movers from him. We've found that the Donnerhall/Pik Bube cross seems to produce hunter movers many times (Domiro is the same). Also stallions with Pik Bube in the dam line, such as Anhaltiner E, and there are many more but I can't think this early in the AM. LOL

    I, personally, as a buyer would want the hack winner so I guess I tend to gravitate towards trying to create it. I have a Dutch gelding that is one of the best movers I've ever seen, literally, (and that is what hooked me about him, along with many other strengths and talents, had to have him) and it kills me he is not a mare!! Believe it or not he is actually Art Deco line. I have seen some seriously good movers from him and his sons actually.
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  20. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Signature View Post
    I agree with SB, and we've found it is true - the mare determines more of the trot mechanics than the stallion, unless they are just hugely prepotent for passing on a flat knee, etc. Our best hunter moving mare has the best hunter moving foal every year, regardless of stallion choice. We've made sure to only have good hunter moving mares so we can use stallions with variety of movement types for other strengths.

    In my humble experience, you are much more likely to get a fabulous hunter mover if you start with a flat kneed mare that needs elasticity/scope to her gaits (using a stallion with more movement than you'd ideally like but big and elastic trot). If you use a bad moving mare/mare with knee or fetlock action with a better moving stallion, you're not as likely to get what you're looking for, just IMO. When I see a fantastic moving foal, I have come to ask what the dam's breeding is first actually.

    Watch a bunch of mare and foal videos and truly analyze the foal trotting next to the mare what the similarities are. The foal may have more lightness, suspension, etc, but watch the way the legs move and break over. That is when I realized it myself.
    Right on the money!
    ~ Bill Rube ~
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