Two of my three horses go lovely in a plain old loose ring. One (Cob) in a KK and one (Oldenburg) in a Myler Comfort Snaffle.
My third horse, and Andalusian, not so well regardless of the mouthpiece. I have been thinking about trying a baucher with her to give her the steadiness I think she might need.
I was wondering why those of you using a baucher are using one? What kinds of things do you achieve with the baucher that you did not get with a loose ring. Positive and negatives with the bit? What mouth piece do you prefer and why?
My girl is going first level and schooling second.
I went through a Baucher phase with my horse when younger. I used a french link style, with a drop nose band. He seemed to like the stability. He was more consistently accepting and too the bit. As he developed strength and throughness I went back to a loose ring french, because I think you have more communication.
I use it after trying several french link mouthpieces and a Myler, because my horse likes the stability in his mouth. He doesn't like a lot of motion in there. Mine is a Happy Mouth double jointed boucher and with it, he is far less likely to lock his jaw and stays much more consistent in the bridle. Mine is technically not legal for eventing because the middle part rolls, but it has helped us progress a lot in our training. I'm going to pick up one of the Stubben non-rolling kind if I can find one on sale so I can use it in competition as well.
Love the KK ultra double jointed B-ring. Both usufull and beautifull!
Design that way, not dressage legal but did help a lot with balance and stability on a OTTB!!
Has just that tiny bit of extra leverage that helps bringing up the weight off the front while not being strong for the light mouths. Half halts get clearer!
Also tried on an heavy puller....really improved that also!
It feels a bit like a really mild kimberwick (goyo) without the chain?!?
And this might be the next bit on my current Hann. in training, she is in a KK ultra full cheek and just learning being on the bit! (not leaning lol)
My old horse (now deceased) went "okay" in a standard loose-ring French mouth snaffle, but wasn't consistent. I tried a French-mouth Baucher on him and he loved it. He had a BIG tongue, shallow palate. My vet (and trainer) said he probably was one of those horses who like a more stable bit in his mouth (rather than a loose and moving one) and the "hanging" aspect of the Baucher suited his mouth conformation, since it put less pressure on the tongue and bars.
I have an ottb mare that would not take contact on any of the various loose ring snaffles and french links I tried on her, she would always tuck her nose just a hair behind the contact, and the shorter the rein was the more she'd tuck her nose in. I rode her for a short time in a big thick rubber Dee ring and encouraged her to pull and hang on the bit (because she never pulled like a "puller" would) so she would understand that contact didn't hurt, and then I rode her for a long time in a french link baucher and it helped a ton! I think it was the stability of it that gave her confidence to carry the bit, but it may be more about the way it hangs the way Sandy M described above. In any case, it helped us a lot to figure out about having contact and get her more relaxed and steady carrying the bit, and now I have her back in a KK double jointed loose ring and she is going happily in it.
I think for your horse it's definitely worth a try. She will tell you if it's better or not
Gallant Gesture "Liam" 1995 chestnut ottb gelding
Mr. Painter "Remy" 2006 chestnut ottb gelding
Stories about our adventures:http://tbatx.wordpress.com
the "hanging" aspect of the Baucher........ put less pressure on the tongue and bars.
I'm pretty sure thats why my horse likes the boucher as well. I have an hs B ring, its quite nice.
I've had 3 bouchers, and have found that all 3 fit a hair small though. My horse is normally a 5" mouth, and the two 5" bouchers I had fit a bit tight... measured true, just fit small. My B ring is a 5.25" and is just right.
I think Sprenger B-ring can be useful for horses with sensitive mouths. It gives them better stability in the mouth, especially sideways. It's quite close to the D-ring bit, but with added stability vertically as well.
Re: Stability: Not generally a "dressage" bit, but any decent full-cheek snaffle if used with keepers will be pretty stable. Not a Fulmer full-check, though, because I think using keepers with that would defeat the original purpose of the design - to be "looser" than a standard full cheek.
hhmmmm, interesting point Sandy. I hadn't thought to put keepers on my fulmer, but I think they'd work quite nicely actually. The keepers would keep the fullcheek and sides steady, while only the ring/rein would slip. Interesting thought, I'll have to give it a try and see what happens.
Last edited by buck22; Apr. 26, 2010 at 09:17 PM.
Reason: trying to keep to the english language ; )
it's not the edge of the earth, but you can see it from here
Was just gonna say... for a 'test' try a fullcheek w/ keepers.
I start all my horses in fullcheeks sans keepers. Stems from my cowboy/ranch days, I'll admit (pre "NH" craze, but I was taught by one of JL's closest friends, peers and fellow students, so makes sense.
Eventually, some time around working in 2nd level, the fullcheek becomes a bit too 'dead'. A GOOD thing in babies, a bad thing as you're moving up. The baucher is a step up, but still feels the same, and hangs the same for a mouth with not-much-room, a low pallate, a horse that hates tongue pressure etc.
Agree 110% with HB, a mullen is also something to consider. It was a true "miracle bit" for a sensitive mare of mine that just the weight of the reins was all the contact she wanted. Put her in an HS mullen (loose ring at that--and I hate them, usually!) and in one summer went from barely TL to 2nd, playing with the P's etc. She loved it, she trusted it, she took connection in it... So I keep a few mullens on my 'bit string' (literally a hay twine loop filled with bits! ) and try them when nothing else seems to work.
*I* would love my horses to like french links. In theory they have more even action and are kinder. In practice, I have *maybe* one of four right now, and of six in the past, who actually likes a french link or KK leine better than a nice curved (JP or Myler) single joint or mullen. Go figure. They ARE related breed wise--mostly genetically, but otherwise by breed, anywhere from 5/8 to 15/16 Arab... even so... I find it interesting.
Good luck... for all those who say it is ALL about the rider, and the horse will go in ANY bit, I agree to the point that the higher you get, the less it seems to matter what's in their mouths (as long as it fits) BUT, I'm a lowly amateur and it's their mouth, and if they LOVE one bit vs. another, it sure makes us both happier, and all of life easier.
My trainer uses one on her very green, very reactive Perch/QH. He was broken at 8 and is just so silly, and I think he, too, takes comfort in the stability in his mouth. Although I've long since given up trying to figure out how his brain works
I have the Sprenger version and it really helped with a fussy mouthed horse who used to tilt periodically in his KK Ultra. I used it for 6 months and it permanently fixed the contact issues he had and I went back to the Ultra.
Its a really nice bit and has now been handed down to a newly broken in horse who is going through the fussy mouthed stage.
I know hanging cheeks are dressage legal but just not that particular shaped B-Ring kk ultra. I've sent the picture of it last week and Mrs EquineCanada said no...(i haven't kept the email that says it, I find it quite bizarre myself that it is not approved...)
If anyone wants to send them the name and picture again maybe they'll change their mind?!? I'd be glad someone prove me wrong!!!
Sorry for the unrelated posts....
Last edited by alibi_18; Apr. 27, 2010 at 06:56 AM.