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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nojacketrequired View Post
    Wattie! You blasPHEME!!!!!

    Do 4 20m circles of 4 beat lope and say WHOA.

    NJR
    Or, like I did when I started learning to rein, spend two hours mostly walking and trotting squares and doing quarter circles in the corners, then in square figure eights, stopping and backing here and there, all that with your legs and seat only, hands crossed in front of you, not touching the reins, in the open AND not letting the horse get strung out and fall onto the forehand.

    The reining schoolmasters are pure saints, they do that time and again and never think of quitting on you.
    They do EXACTLY what you ask, humbling you every time you are not very clear with your aids.



  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by tempichange View Post
    You know I've been on reiners and ex reiners and they are perfectly capable to do a fourth level test, at the age of six. The majority are ponies on top of it.

    I'd take one of those horses any day.

    Personally speaking, she deserves a tip of the hat for trying.
    Ive ridden quite a few as well, that shuffling canter and gallop is easier to get changes with, hence their 4 year olds can do the same pattern as their senior horses.

    I wouldnt even begin to compare their training, even a finished horse in reining, to 4th level in dressage.


    Quote Originally Posted by egontoast View Post
    Ok I'll say it. I don't get reining.

    Those dizzying spins , those YOWWW sliding stops. How long do those horses stay sound? Do they compete at the upper levels up until 18?

    Just curious. Please don't hurt me.

    Actually if they start out with good hocks, they stay pretty sound. Ive seen plenty of old reiners still at it. My reining trainer wouldnt do slides except before and during shows after they were solid at it.

    The mare I rode really WANTED to slide for me, and most horses that make it big do, so you cant abuse it or drill it.



  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by egontoast View Post
    Ok I'll say it. I don't get reining.

    Those dizzying spins , those YOWWW sliding stops. How long do those horses stay sound? Do they compete at the upper levels up until 18?

    Just curious. Please don't hurt me.
    How many horses, from pasture ornaments that were never ridden, to those that start in any demanding performance, make it into their late teens, twenties?

    There are way too many factors to those numbers to determine if it was the breeding, conformation, raising, discipline, start, training, life of use and how intense, or just pure luck that kept a horse going and going and going.

    I just sold two schoolmasters, that still were competitive reiners, one won a bigger futuriti as a three year old, now older than 15, that were still sound and happy.
    I lost one teenager last year to a pasture injury at a friend's, that was like an energizing bunny and I expect he would have been going on way past 20.
    He had won a small reining futurity as a three year old.

    I think that any horse that is not going to cut it as a reiner, it is very competitive, because of possible physical shortcomings or just lack of ability, is washed out soon in the early training and probably sold for versatility or open shows, or trail riding or some other that may fit it better.
    From all those started as reiners, not that many are good at it, as happens in anything we do with our horses, not just reining.



  4. #44
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    Western Riding Market is huge, much larger than dressage. I'm betting that Anky will come up with the Western Line apparel shortly



  5. #45
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    Thanks for your reply Bluey and thanks for not hurting me.

    I get dizzy and need to lie down just watching those spins.



  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by egontoast View Post
    Thanks for your reply Bluey and thanks for not hurting me.

    I get dizzy and need to lie down just watching those spins.


    Some questions really don't have an answer.

    You ought to try riding a reining horse, just do some basics, not the whole movements yet. Look out ahead when you spin, not down.
    You will feel the lightness and suppleness, a horse like butter under you, like you hardly ever get to experience in other riding disciplines, while you are still doing something that takes much skill.
    Once you get used to riding a horse without a head.

    I like much about reining, I don't other, it is a new sport and still evolving, don't know where it will go, if the way of some fads, or stay as a solid discipline.

    One sure thing, a good, older reiner is as broke a well trained horse as you will ever have, on the ground and riding, you can take them anywhere.

    One difference with dressage, a smooth ride.



  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by monstrpony View Post
    Yes, there is the fun side of it, but my very first post on this thread was not entirely facetious, either. One of my dearest friends is a dedicated and accomplished dressage rider. Lately, we've done some trail riding together, and she keeps apologizing for her WB's orangutan-ness while we're tacking up in the open, in a strange place. She, too, still believes that the reason my aged QH gelding is so well behaved is entirely due to his age and QH-ness. Sure, that's a significant factor, but also embracing a horsemanship that values being able to operate a horse from the ground as much as under saddle, is a part of it. I would never wish to be the ground man doctoring a cow that was tied off to her WB . Granted, reining doesn't get into this kind of stuff directly, but the horsemanship value basis is a lot closer there than in high performance dressage. And, like it or not, I will blaspheme and say that there is a hole in Anky's horsemanship in this area, and I genuinely hope her excursion into reining helps her to find the patch. Why? Because I like Anky? No, because I care about horses being handled in a way that makes them comfortable and confident in addition to being brilliant.
    Well, as many cowboys would say, a lot of dressage horses "ain't broke." Not tarring all dressage riders, but there is a segment (and unfortunately, they are the ones that 'get noticed' by riders in other disciplines - like reining) who will let a horse get away with murder as long as the performance in the show ring is a winning one. You know the type - "Oh, Wolfentanzerschmidt doesn't TIE" (i.e, If I tie him to the trailer so I can run to the ladies room, he'll pull it off the hitch and/or break loose and terrorize the show grounds." It's an attitude not exclusive to dressage, but it DOES seem to be more common among a certain type of DQ. Sort of, "I paid so much for this horse that as long as he wins, he can do whatever he wants otherwise" including have terrible ground manners/be unridable on the trail, etc., etc., etc. (especially since the groom has to deal with it most of the time). Those of us who are our own grooms, etc. tend to prefer "broke" horses. LOL



  8. #48
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    One difference with dressage, a smooth ride.
    Then sorry that you have never ridden a well trained dressage horse with self carriage and a swingy supple back.

    Like riding on a cloud or a cresting wave



  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by egontoast View Post
    Ok I'll say it. I don't get reining.

    Those dizzying spins , those YOWWW sliding stops. How long do those horses stay sound? Do they compete at the upper levels up until 18?

    Just curious. Please don't hurt me.
    I'm not sure about the reiners. Certainly many of the Youth and NonPro horses are older (but I don't know about 18). Same thing with the cutters. I have seen a horse nationally competitive in the Non-Pro division (cutting) that was 16. I rode a Youth Champion Paint cutting horse that was 12 and still going strong - sort of recycled to younger riders every few years like a good Pony Club mount. But perhaps those horses were not considered futurity prospects and were brought along more slowly than the big reining/cutting futurity horses. I think most of the WEG reiners are 5 or older (perhaps the FEI put in restrictions re age as they do with eventing and show jumping?), but I can't recall hearing of any older than 9 at the oldest (more likely 7). A lot are stallions and if they win big, get retired to stud when they are 6-ish. If there are older horses competing, they're usually geldings.



  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by egontoast View Post
    Then sorry that you have never ridden a well trained dressage horse with self carriage and a swingy supple back.

    Like riding on a cloud or a cresting wave
    Oh, yes, but that swung.
    Just look at some of the top rides.

    I had the pleasure of exercising a 26 year old several times national dressage champion in her day and she still had it.



  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by NOMIOMI1 View Post
    Ive ridden quite a few as well, that shuffling canter and gallop is easier to get changes with, hence their 4 year olds can do the same pattern as their senior horses.

    I wouldnt even begin to compare their training, even a finished horse in reining, to 4th level in dressage.
    I don't know what barn you've been at, but those canters I've seen aren't shuffling. Yes, they aren't international gaits, but they are active and surprisingly good.

    The guys I've seen regularly plus 2 or 3, finish in the money and aren't mentally fried, they do love their job, and are well taken care of.

    A finished reiner can do tempi's, they can collect, they can do solid pirouettes, and for a novel concept, half halt. A number of them have clearer transitions and have the yes ma'am concept to lateral work. Most of the work is about clarifying the language of the aids.

    When I rode out a 4-2 test on one of them for giggles, in front of a judge, the only complaint was that the horse tended to want to do a run down the centerline, and that the pir's became quick. But everything else, after a week consistently working on it, was there.

    Two different disciplines, common concept.
    Kelly
    It is rare to see a rider who is truly passionate about the horse and his training, taking a profound interest in dressage with self-abnegation, and making this extraordinarily subtle work one of the dominant motivations of his life.\"



  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by tempichange View Post
    I don't know what barn you've been at, but those canters I've seen aren't shuffling. Yes, they aren't international gaits, but they are active and surprisingly good.

    The guys I've seen regularly plus 2 or 3, finish in the money and aren't mentally fried, they do love their job, and are well taken care of.

    A finished reiner can do tempi's, they can collect, they can do solid pirouettes, and for a novel concept, half halt. A number of them have clearer transitions and have the yes ma'am concept to lateral work. Most of the work is about clarifying the language of the aids.

    When I rode out a 4-2 test on one of them for giggles, in front of a judge, the only complaint was that the horse tended to want to do a run down the centerline, and that the pir's became quick. But everything else, after a week consistently working on it, was there.

    Two different disciplines, common concept.
    You and I have ridden some very similarly trained horses.

    My QH wasn't a top reiner, it was just part of his all around training. He had zero brakes in his mouth, so I got him at a huge discount because he was also powerful and the people I bought him from were afraid of him. But don't touch his mouth and sit for a square halt from canter, or half halt then sit down to get a slide.



  13. #53
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    Meh.

    The canter on a well bred reiner is a shuffle because they are bred that way. I dont mean quality of gait, I mean the sliding motion you feel in the swing of a very low set hock. I mean the flat front end on a horse built downhill. And I mean the straightest shoulders this side of Mississippi.

    They gotta be low to do what they do, no problem with that at all.

    Say what you want, but a talented horse can do the hardest reining pattern there is with 6 months of good training with the top trainers.

    If they can "lope" around a 4th level test and do the movements, it just means the horse is easily moved around and should be hence being a cow/reining horse

    IMO they respond, they do the job, thats what they are supposed to do, but their changes are a far cry from tempis.



  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by NOMIOMI1 View Post
    Meh.

    The canter on a well bred reiner is a shuffle because they are bred that way. I dont mean quality of gait, I mean the sliding motion you feel in the swing of a very low set hock. I mean the flat front end on a horse built downhill. And I mean the straightest shoulders this side of Mississippi.

    They gotta be low to do what they do, no problem with that at all.

    Say what you want, but a tadented horse can'do the hardest zeining pattern there is with 6 ionths of good tzaining with the top trainers.

    If the} can "lope"'around a 4th level test and do the movements, it just means the horse is easily moved around and should be hence being a cow/reining horse

    IMO they respond, they do the job, thats what they are supposed to do, but their changes are a far cry from tempis.
    Are you serious?
    I have seen more straight shoulders in some breeds of warmbloods than anywhere else.
    Less of any in TBs, not that many in performance quarter horses.
    A reiner with a straight shoulder would not be able to cross over and spin at speed.
    Reiners don't have the gaits that win in dressage, but they are not dressage horses.

    As for tempis, I doubt that you have seen many good reiners training young horses, because they do counter canters and tempis down a straight line with the best of them, is part of some drills.

    I am not even sure you are looking at conformation the same way most I know do.

    Reining is a very new, developing discipline, give it some time and check back.
    You should see the old first videos, they were really rough, compared with what reining is today.



  15. #55
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    Late to this, but for comparison with Anky's ride, here is a video of the run it took to win the AQHA Youth World Show in 2009.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMsGY...eature=related

    egontoast - reiners are sort of like jumpers. You spin fast or stop hard only a small percentage of the time and spend most of the time schooling correctness at slower speeds. Reiners also use Adaquan and other joint and soundness aids early and often. I usually see new soundness techniques like Pulse Electromagnetic Therapy first in the barns at big reining shows. Reiner shoeing is a science, and actually the slider shoes also help reduce torque on hind legs during spins. Good conformation helps also for longevity.
    Comprehensive Equestrian Site Planning and Facility Design
    www.lynnlongplanninganddesign.com



  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by NOMIOMI1 View Post
    Meh.

    The canter on a well bred reiner is a shuffle because they are bred that way. I dont mean quality of gait, I mean the sliding motion you feel in the swing of a very low set hock. I mean the flat front end on a horse built downhill. And I mean the straightest shoulders this side of Mississippi.

    They gotta be low to do what they do, no problem with that at all.

    Say what you want, but a talented horse can do the hardest reining pattern there is with 6 months of good training with the top trainers.

    If they can "lope" around a 4th level test and do the movements, it just means the horse is easily moved around and should be hence being a cow/reining horse

    IMO they respond, they do the job, thats what they are supposed to do, but their changes are a far cry from tempis.
    Those horses I know aren't built downhill, they're actually rather uphill. They're not built like cutters or WP horses. They're compact, small, and have decent gaits. They probably wouldn't fair too well in a CDI*** or a breeder's class, but for a regular test on the national level, they can do it.

    Maybe it's your area and your current level of dressage, because the quality I see, and the quality that you see are two different things. In my barn (and yes, I board at a reining barn) these horses regularly go to Oklahoma, they regularly plus, they regularly earn cash from the age of two onward.

    In short, they are good horses for their sport and some of those individuals (the ones I've been on) have made good, competitive dressage horses that would be excellent AA mounts.
    Kelly
    It is rare to see a rider who is truly passionate about the horse and his training, taking a profound interest in dressage with self-abnegation, and making this extraordinarily subtle work one of the dominant motivations of his life.\"



  17. #57
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    Most of the work is about clarifying the language of the aids.
    Exactly. They have a job of A,B,C and the trainers are very clear to explain that EVERY time A,B,C means THIS. The amount of body control is incredible.Another point to be made is that you teach them and then you LEAVE THEM ALONE to do their jobs in the ring.

    I have to admit that my very favourite thing to do on a horse is roll-backs. My dirty little un-dressage secret. I love to do roll-backs on a well trained western riding/reining horse.

    NJR



  18. #58
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    Nah, the horses that do the sport well and are imported out of the country for their lines are very VERY downhill old school cow horse.

    Some in the 14 hand range.

    And many have got a straight shoulder, sorry but they do.

    Lovely little horses, with speed and agility, but dont compare their movement with the warmbloods, or their lead changes with tempis. Its like apples and jack rabbits.

    My last western pleasure trainer was world ranked and she'd started in reiners. Later I rode with an international reining trainer, mmm, about a year or so.

    Ive done dressage a few years, but Ive done AQ MUCH longer than that.
    Last edited by NOMIOMI1; Apr. 24, 2010 at 10:40 AM.



  19. #59
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    Oliver, just under 17.3 and giant black exact replica of his Holsteiner daddy, has an Appendix (15/16 TB) maternal granny and a grandpa who was World Champion Working Cowhorse. PAINT WC. So I don't know if that's what has rubbed off on me, but before summer is over we are going to sort cows. And if our fabulous reining trainer had schoolies, my guess is that I would not be the only one signing up for lessons. Oliver spent 3 months last year with an AQHA reserve WC, getting some good ol' fashioned western manners put on him. Best thing I ever did, improved his gait and his attitude.
    EDDIE WOULD GO



  20. #60
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    Just FYI, if Anky qualified for both sports, she would not be the only one, nor the first. Currently, Heath Ryan is qualified for both dressage and eventing at WEG. He has competed at both the **** level in eventing and Grand Prix dressage.



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