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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun. 1, 2002
    Location
    Indiana
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    11,728

    Default linking diet and abscess

    I am looking for some sort of scientific evidence or evidence based in fact or peer reviewed evidence that diet can cause abscesses as a way to release "toxins" in the body.

    I have seem some information but it tends to come from one type of source which is information I do not trust as factual but consider biased.

    If anyone can provide anything I'd be happy to look at it.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar. 10, 2003
    Location
    Massachusetts, USA
    Posts
    3,503

    Default

    This should be interesting ...
    --Gwen <><
    "Treat others as you want to be treated and be the change you want to see in the world."
    http://www.thepenzancehorse.com



  3. #3
    Join Date
    May. 24, 2005
    Location
    Winter Park, Florida
    Posts
    3,667

    Default

    I too have tried to find such info. We had a rescue who in a 1 year period had 8 or 9 hoof abcesses, plus a shoulder abcess. The last abcess was the worst..he was stall bound for 6 weeks, would lay down all the time and was so bad, the first time 3 different vets came out, they all thought he had foundered (he had not). Even my chiropractor thought he was dying, he was so bad off. During this time, I thought he might have been IR. After eating, he would suddenly have to lay down. Tests revealed all was normal though. We changed his diet anyhow to an IR diet, the abcess finally cleared and for 5 months, until he had to be euthanized for other reasons, he did not have an abcess...the longest period he went without one. I would be interested in seeing any information you come across.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec. 16, 2003
    Location
    Staunton, VA, USA
    Posts
    2,492

    Default Horses with too low a protein

    intake tend to have weaker horn and less of it. They are more prone to getting splits and cracks and sometimes these can allow bacteria into the foot which then set up an abcess.

    So indirectly, diet can be a contributing factor to the tendency to get abcesses.

    I have seen horses fed a diet with a poor quality or insufficient protein source develop weaker feet and tendency to abcess, though that particular aspect was not documented.

    anything that interferes with hoof growth and integrity will weaken the hoof wall.
    Good Luck
    Hope this helps
    Yours
    MW
    Melyni (PhD) PAS, Dipl. ACAN.
    Sign up for the Equine nutrition enewsletter on www.foxdenequine.com
    New edition of book is out:
    Horse Nutrition Handbook.

    www.knabstruppers4usa.com



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun. 1, 2002
    Location
    Indiana
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    11,728

    Default

    So if the grain and hay is good and in good supply and the horse is fit and usually sound in the summer and fall on gravel and without chips can it still be diet?



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec. 16, 2003
    Location
    Staunton, VA, USA
    Posts
    2,492

    Default Sure esp if the hay is not as good as the pasture

    Quote Originally Posted by enjoytheride View Post
    So if the grain and hay is good and in good supply and the horse is fit and usually sound in the summer and fall on gravel and without chips can it still be diet?
    In the summer they eat pasture which can be higher in protein than the hay.

    Also the winter, the wet is the most challenging to the hoof wall integrity and thus if there is a weakness it is most likely to show when the horn is soft and wet.

    You'll also see it happen in horses with white socks who get their feet washed all the time, the constant wet weakens the horn and the horse gets a lot of abscesses in the white foot.

    Have you tried keratex or other external hoof hardener?
    MW
    Melyni (PhD) PAS, Dipl. ACAN.
    Sign up for the Equine nutrition enewsletter on www.foxdenequine.com
    New edition of book is out:
    Horse Nutrition Handbook.

    www.knabstruppers4usa.com



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov. 9, 2005
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    15,296

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lori T View Post
    I too have tried to find such info. We had a rescue who in a 1 year period had 8 or 9 hoof abcesses, plus a shoulder abcess. The last abcess was the worst..he was stall bound for 6 weeks, would lay down all the time and was so bad, the first time 3 different vets came out, they all thought he had foundered (he had not). Even my chiropractor thought he was dying, he was so bad off. During this time, I thought he might have been IR. After eating, he would suddenly have to lay down. Tests revealed all was normal though. We changed his diet anyhow to an IR diet, the abcess finally cleared and for 5 months, until he had to be euthanized for other reasons, he did not have an abcess...the longest period he went without one. I would be interested in seeing any information you come across.
    not enough bedding can cause outside abcesses of the skin as lack of protection for a horse getting up or down
    and some people dont put enough bedding be with mats or not
    always have a deep bed and bank the sides if a horse is in his stable at night or on box rest thus prevents sores of hips elbows schoulders and hocks also prevents the horse from getting cast

    abcesses of the foot if constantly returning need to be addressed properly as the infected area and it can be due to poor conformation of the feet
    http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=178116
    read page 7 link 1



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar. 19, 2010
    Posts
    221

    Default

    My mare is an appendix Paint Tobiano and has all white feet. She is prone to abscess and as Melyni pointed out, wet times are the worst. Here in Florida that means summer time.

    I have recently put her on the PSSM diet and will be watching closely to see if this helps her to avoid those dreadful abscesses.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar. 24, 2008
    Posts
    1,833

    Default

    Release toxins? I don't think you'll be able to find anything that says that. That sounds kind of nutty. Do you know how that is supposed to work?



  10. #10
    Join Date
    May. 24, 2005
    Location
    Winter Park, Florida
    Posts
    3,667

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by goeslikestink View Post
    not enough bedding can cause outside abcesses of the skin as lack of protection for a horse getting up or down
    and some people dont put enough bedding be with mats or not
    always have a deep bed and bank the sides if a horse is in his stable at night or on box rest thus prevents sores of hips elbows schoulders and hocks also prevents the horse from getting cast

    abcesses of the foot if constantly returning need to be addressed properly as the infected area and it can be due to poor conformation of the feet
    http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=178116
    read page 7 link 1
    Bedding is not an issue in my barn! My stalls are bedded very deeply..10 inches minimum, with banks.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec. 14, 2008
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    829

    Default No Scientific evidence but...

    My gelding had hoof abcesses every year while boarded and fed what the BO fed the whole barn.... Oats and Horse 10 (sweet feed.) Being ignorant of feed and nutrition at the time, I just assumed he was picking up some dirt as he was a conditioned show horse and we dealt with it. Farrier was never concerned, neither was BO who's own horses also abcessed.

    Fast foward a few years. For many reasons, my gelding only eats beet/alf mash and some low carb grain with free choice hay. He is also barefoot... and I have a different farrier who has worked wonders with his feet. He lives at home and is out 24/7. Unsure of what made the change... I believe it was the above combination, but he has not abcessed in 18 months and his feet are solid. The former BO I used to board with... those horses still abcess.

    That's just my personal experience. I think lowering the NSC for my guy, plus making some other changes stopped the abcessing.
    Gone gaited....



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug. 25, 2005
    Location
    Northeast
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    11,501

    Thumbs up

    As GLS said, and adding. Frequent foot abscesses can also be the result of corns.
    Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun. 30, 2006
    Location
    Middle Tennessee
    Posts
    5,469

    Default

    Don't have any peer reviewed sources for you, but an interesting personal experience for what it's worth:

    My horse, who is not prone to abscessing, suddenly developed several hoof abscesses in the span of about a month. Nothing else changed in her diet/routine and she wasn't showing any other symptoms of poor health. We couldn't figure out what the heck was going on.

    It turns out the oak trees at the far end of the pasture were masting unusually large numbers of acorns at that time. My horse, who had never touched them before, discovered acorns were pretty tasty and was devouring them. We moved her out of the pasture until the acorns were gone. Sure enough, the abscessing stopped. She hasn't had a problem since then.

    That may not be the type of evidence you're looking for and my experience may have been a coincidence. But it certainly seemed something toxic in my horse's diet was causing hoof abscessing.
    Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb. 8, 2010
    Location
    Mount Albert, Ontario
    Posts
    22

    Default

    My horse had been plagued with abscesses for two years,one right after the other. Since they were not always on the same foot,it was not that one was not clearing up completely before it would reappear. My vet and farrier put their heads together and also networked with colleagues and all came up with the same question. Perhaps he was having early onset symptoms of Cushings Disease. He is 11 and also picks up every bug that goes around and it hits him really hard.Since it was fall,we could not accurately check for a rise in cortisol,but did put him on Pergolide and a low fibre diet. To date he has had only one abscess,his body condition has improved and he has far better energy. he had no other cushings symptoms,does not drink in excess and has a beautiful shiny coat. I have never even had to clip him in the winter. It may be coincidental,but the treatment has worked and kept him healthy and comfortable.
    Last edited by pn; Apr. 17, 2010 at 08:34 PM. Reason: spelling



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov. 13, 2002
    Location
    PA, where the State motto is: "If it makes sense, we don't do it!".
    Posts
    11,476

    Default

    Well, I used to work with a gal that had a young (2 year old) Morgan/Thoroughbred cross gelding. I knew this girl for years and she would constantly complain about her horse's chronic abscessing. I don't remember if he was ever shod or not but he had one of those "easy keeper" body types (plump). Since he was so young and experiencing these problems when her other horse (about the same age) was not I theorized that it was probably from the sweet feed (excess sugars) coupled with his genetics.

    I often thought he should have his thyroid tested and be checked for insulin resistance but don't think she ever had it done. I haven't seen her for several years now so I can't really say what his problem was, or if it ever resolved itself....

    But that's my story and I'm stickin' to it!

    Really, although veterinary science would have us believe they have all the answers, it doesn't! Every day we're finding out just how ignorant we are about the horse and its diet.... I don't see any evidence yet concerning sugars=abscesses but that's not to say we might not see it in the future.... It may be anectdotal now but with more research may be proven to be true. Its just that there is so precious little funding out there to test the theory as any scholar will tell you.
    "Marriage is like a deck of cards--it starts with two hearts and a diamond and after a while you wish you had a club and a spade." ~seen on an anniversary card~



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