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  1. #41
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    I agree with Thomas, there are alot of facts missing here that would help us. Before everyone jumps on the Euthenasia bandwagon. Not saying that there are not times that it is the best option-just a little too "fast food" lifestyle for me.
    This one is not fitting into "my" program, so he will die.
    What about fitting into his program?



  2. #42
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    I've deliberately kept the facts to a minimum here because I am a regular poster on COTH and wanted to get feedback without being judged too harshly. I know that will happen anyway but such is life.

    I put rescue in quotes because I feel the word is thrown around too easily and for almost any situation. This horse was getting on the trailer to go to slaughter (which is no longer legal in the US and means a long ride to Mexico or Canada). He does have a better end here no matter what.

    I don't feel the need to argue my experience or background. I've said right from the get go that this is not a decision being made now. He's been handled daily. When he bolted on me yesterday I was holding his lead.

    Believe me, we are not riding him. I don't know if he'll ever be rideable. We didn't get him to "do" something, and didn't get him because we love rainbows, candy canes, and gumdrops and see visions of Black Beauty in our heads, but we're happy to give him a life here. That is if he's somewhat safe to handle (and have others handle) and receive needed care. He wasn't free or cheap in the scheme of things.

    I will say that I agree that there are probably some trainers that would take this horse on. But I have a real problem sending horses like this to someone making a living...is they get hurt or injured they are in real trouble. And no horse is worth someone's ability to support themselves or their family, or someone's life.

    We giving this time. However, after doing this a long time you start to learn which ones have hope at a happy life and which ones don't. Thankfully the former are what have come off our farm before now and that makes it worth taking the chance. I just needed a place to come to talk about it and I feel much better already.

    Thanks again for all the feedback. I really appreciate it.



  3. #43
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    I would give the drugs a try. Years ago I got 'sideways' with my mare. We got to the point where we didn't trust each other or even like each other. Even though she didn't have a mean bone in her body she became unpredictable and I became edgy working around her although I had her long enough to not be afraid of her. But it wasn't fun.

    After talking to my vet he suggested resperin (I think that's what it was called, it's been a long time and hopefully someone will know the correct name). It worked as a mild sedative for her and what it helped me do was break the vicious circle we had gotten ourselves into. It calmed her down enough so that we were able to become friends again. While she was on it I trail rode her and basically just played. She was groomed in all her favorite spots and we discovered some I hadn't even known about. After 3 months I took her off of it and the cycle had been broken. We ended up as pals and she was with me for years and years. She is still the best horse I have ever owned.

    Sometimes we - or someone in their past - gets sideways with them and they just need a chance to relax and get over it and you need a chance to work around them without fear to break the cycle. I do remember the drug wasn't expensive, and if it doesn't work and you do put him down you will know you had tried everything. Good luck. Your in a tough spot.
    Last edited by Saidapal; Apr. 3, 2010 at 11:28 AM.



  4. #44
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    One of the most talented, quiet, unassuming trainers on the planet literally had his knee caved in by a cowkicking mule. The mule cowkicked with intent while he was bridling or haltering it, had the animal's neck bent toward him, gently cradling his head, to do so.

    BAM. Career over for a yr or more. And no health insurance.

    I've dealt with those horses who have a screw loose. They wake up in a new world every day. If one wants to continue to work with them, fine, that's your right and your choice. If another owner w/ a similar animal doesn't, that's their right and choice.

    So chuck him out for a month or so and continue to eyeball the deal. If you end up putting him down, that's a reasonable course.

    I'm not inclined to cyberbully someone into getting hurt.



  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtALossAlter View Post
    I've deliberately kept the facts to a minimum here because I am a regular poster on COTH and wanted to get feedback without being judged too harshly. I know that will happen anyway but such is life.

    I put rescue in quotes because I feel the word is thrown around too easily and for almost any situation. This horse was getting on the trailer to go to slaughter (which is no longer legal in the US and means a long ride to Mexico or Canada). He does have a better end here no matter what.

    I don't feel the need to argue my experience or background. I've said right from the get go that this is not a decision being made now. He's been handled daily. When he bolted on me yesterday I was holding his lead.

    Believe me, we are not riding him. I don't know if he'll ever be rideable. We didn't get him to "do" something, and didn't get him because we love rainbows, candy canes, and gumdrops and see visions of Black Beauty in our heads, but we're happy to give him a life here. That is if he's somewhat safe to handle (and have others handle) and receive needed care. He wasn't free or cheap in the scheme of things.

    I will say that I agree that there are probably some trainers that would take this horse on. But I have a real problem sending horses like this to someone making a living...is they get hurt or injured they are in real trouble. And no horse is worth someone's ability to support themselves or their family, or someone's life.

    We giving this time. However, after doing this a long time you start to learn which ones have hope at a happy life and which ones don't. Thankfully the former are what have come off our farm before now and that makes it worth taking the chance. I just needed a place to come to talk about it and I feel much better already.

    Thanks again for all the feedback. I really appreciate it.
    Please check your PM's. This sounds suspiciously like a rescue I had last summer and rehomed. If it is the same horse, I'd be happy to take him back. He's a nutter, but we got along pretty well.



  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by carolprudm View Post
    IIRC there were some show humpers in Athens caught with it in their system.
    Weeelll, I don't know about humpers, but one of the Irish jumpers (individual gold medalist, IIRC) tested positive for fluphen.
    In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
    A life lived by example, done too soon.
    www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/



  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtALossAlter View Post
    I've deliberately kept the facts to a minimum here because I am a regular poster on COTH and wanted to get feedback without being judged too harshly. I know that will happen anyway but such is life.
    Now I think feedback means response to a query or suggestion. As with all things in life the advice you get is going to be appropriate for the information you provide. Give more, you get more.

    I'm thinking by "feeback" you mean validation or sanction or permission.

    I put rescue in quotes because I feel the word is thrown around too easily and for almost any situation. This horse was getting on the trailer to go to slaughter (which is no longer legal in the US and means a long ride to Mexico or Canada). He does have a better end here no matter what.
    So he doesn't get the road trip but dead is dead!

    I don't feel the need to argue my experience or background. I've said right from the get go that this is not a decision being made now. He's been handled daily. When he bolted on me yesterday I was holding his lead.
    All still VERY light on substance and most definitely a "fact free" conversation.

    I so want to ask where he "bolted" to and how you stopped him and got him back but you seem not to want to want to give facts or obtain qualitative advice of substance.

    Suggest though that if you are handling a horse that isn't trained that you need to get him on a long line NOT on a lead rope. Ensure you're wearing gloves, hat, steel toe capped boots, body protector (whatever you need to keep safe!) If he goes to prat about then you maintain control via the 30foot long line and you move him round and don't allow him to bolt.

    I will say that I agree that there are probably some trainers that would take this horse on. But I have a real problem sending horses like this to someone making a living...is they get hurt or injured they are in real trouble. And no horse is worth someone's ability to support themselves or their family, or someone's life.
    Horse trainers do indeed train horses that are spoilt by problem owners all the time. They well know how to manage the safety of themselves and the horse and how to charge for the service. They ordinarily have good insurance. They also know how to properly introduce the horse into a new environment, how to assess the horse and how to start all over again dependent on it's needs.

    We giving this time.

    However, after doing this a long time you start to learn which ones have hope at a happy life and which ones don't.
    So how long has it been with you and what precisely are you doing with it?



  8. #48
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    I see you say you got hin "not long ago"?

    Seems that you could just put him out with a calmer and very tame buddy and let him observe and learn that people are not all that bad. But that will take some time.

    Ya' know, it won't kill them if they go awhile between farrier visits and vaccinations. Possible you can just be around him without handling him and let him relearn a little. Go the feed out of a bucket you are holding and that kind of thing, use the clicker concept to reprogram him. By all means drugs should be considered for awhile to break the fear reaction and defensiveness.

    Kind of sounds like he is just not broke to handle very well...or at all. Could he have come from the BLM? What you describe sounds very like the way some of these react when first handled...and they can revert to that when frightened. They don't like feeling trapped or confined and that could be why he was so bad when you were trying to work with him. Even fully domesticated horses that were never handled until much older can show this kind of reaction.

    Euthanasia is an option but, least IMO, you could just chuck him out where he can see everything and wait awhile before condemning him.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.



  9. #49
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    If the horse is a problem for someone, or anyone, I would rather see the horse euthanized. Short, simple, quick, over!

    This is a decision that most never take lightly!

    Instead of discussing this at length on the internet, people should consult other equine experts. Get a general consensus and go from there!

    Don't expect others to have the same view as you. Don't expect others to agree with you.

    Do what feels right for you and the horse in your possession! Let the "experts" tell you their opinion!

    I did this last year. It was hard as hell to do, but it was right for us!



  10. #50
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    I don't think too many trainers would be lining up for this horse. Most professionals (at least the ones I know) wouldn't want to risk getting hurt and being out of work. Frankly, based only on what has been posted, if the horse were in my possession I would be uncomfortable asking someone else to attempt to work with it, professional or not.

    Yes, there are people out there who believe that every animal must be saved, no matter what the cost. And I fully agree it isn't the horse's fault it is what it is. But I don't think it is anyone's duty to risk life and limb to provide basic care to, let alone retrain, a horse that is dangerous.

    And Thomas, I've got to disagree with you. This doesn't sound like a spoiled horse with a few bad habits. Exactly how dangerous, we can't say for sure, but dangerous enough that there has been a potentially serious kick and some close calls. Dangerous enough that an experienced horseperson is afraid of him. As far as "giving it time," the horse still needs basic care in the meantime and that is what the poster is having trouble with.

    The climate in your neck of the woods may be different. If this poster were in my area, and she chose to put this horse down, I could replace him with three sound and sane freebies in less than 24 hours. In many areas of the US, sound and useable horses are being turned loose or euthanized because their owners cannot care for them and they have no dollar value.



  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas_1 View Post
    I'm struggling with this one. We've folks here suggesting just kill the horse and yet there's nothing posted here that gives me any hint that this isn't a situation that can't be recovered.

    There really isn't sufficient information here to provide any advice of substance and I want to ask a shed load of questions:

    You said

    How long ago?

    You say he's not with you long and you've no history and he's young and then suggest that there's something psycho about the horse because he's not handling, not catching, not haltering, not riding etc. etc. etc.

    If he's not been there long then why are you riding him??

    Precisely what did you do when he first came to you?

    What have you been doing with him day to day?

    How have you assessed what he knows and what he might, and might not, have done?

    You said you have "no" history but you also say he was "rescued". Rescued from what??? What were his circumstances when he was acquired by the owner???

    What experience have you got with remedial recovery of spoilt horses?


    You've said "no trainer would take him on".

    REALLY????

    What precisely have you done to hire a trainer? I've never personally come across a trainer yet that can't manage what's described here.

    I've posted the following previously but I'm going to say it again and again and again because I really utterly dislike these postings when what's required is time and effort and money spent training and what's suggested is a bullet or a needle!

    I really do feel strongly that the word "rescue" is used wayyyy too frequently.

    It's used by people who have got a cheap or free horse in the hope that they've got a bargain or something of worth.

    I feel even more strongly that when horses have been spoilt and had a poor start and need to be remediated that they're ONLY taken on by someone who really and truly can give them a chance and commit to that.

    Spoilt horses are NEVER easy and I've seen too many passed from pillar to post and along the way just getting worse and worse until they're destined for slaughter.

    The thing is with spoilt horses is that they've often become totally insecure and lost their ability to trust or have confidence and IME they're never bad, just confused and bewildered and don't know what they should do.

    Too often they end up in the hands of folks who really don't know what to do or what to try next and who want to fix the problem quickly. And its just NEVER, as in NO WAY EVER, going to happen. Or else they are with someone who feels sorry for them and hence isn't able to be their leader. Rather they're thinking about what they might have been through and over-compensating.

    In my experience it's never the case that they can't become viable... providing they don't have serious physical or health problems.

    But this presumes that they go to someone who can commit what is needed to them

    Horses live in the here and now and so its really important that they're handled consistently and, when they're troubled, firmly and with discipline. You can't let a spoilt horse learn that its going to be getting cuddles and kisses when its demonstrating negative behaviour. Neither can you piss about with it if you don't know what you're doing and haven't got really good rock solid experience and confidence to manage the situation.

    For me this is the crux of the matter. You take a horse on knowing its got problems and you have to make that commitment. If you want to give it a chance, then you have to give it time and attention as well as positive training which establishes you as its leader.

    The last one I took on as my own personal "retirement project". He came here on "his last chance"; to be put down, the owner having succeeded in getting the insurance loss of use payment. I got him just over 2 years ago. He wasn't sat on in over 18 months after I got him and was just chilling and being handled consistently. When people asked me how long it would be before I started to work him I said "when he's ready"

    I've had them that reared and come over backwards. That come backwards at you with intent on letting you have both back barrels. That rear and strike out with the forelegs. That grab you if you dare go anywhere near their front end. They've all come good, albeit some of them you ALWAYS have to do everything "text book" correct and others have a slightly unusual plot.

    I never ordinarily tell folks their backgrounds. It becomes irrelevant. I'm not one myself who ever wants to know what happened to a horse or what it does. I know from decades of experience that how a horse is with one person is most likely to be totally different with another after time. Folks just need to know what to do and what not to do. That's all there is to is once history is history.

    That means I tend to stick with them.

    The only time I give up on a horse is when the quality of it's life is so poor that it's suffering and with absolutely no prognosis of a good recovery.

    I don't consider it a "rescue" if you're just going to take it and put it down.

    That's just putting a horse down. Nothing more nothing less. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that it's not the right thing to do sometimes. I've done it myself. But in my mind, that's not rescue. Makes no difference to me whether it's put down immediately or in 3 months time because nothing changed. By my definition it's not "rescued" if it's dead.

    Neither is it "rescue" if you're just letting it lead a solitary life as a pasture ornament because it's dangerous and remains evil or in severe pain. That's just a change of environment.

    Neither is it "rescue" if you take a horse that has fierce intent e.g. biting, kicking whatever and just pussy foot around it. That's just a change of scenery with a new cautious owner.

    Nor do I consider it "rescue" if it's taken in by someone who doesn't have the wit and where with all: the skill, time, experience, finance, facilities* to devote and dedicate. That's just a change of ownership. (*insert as appropriate)

    I personally can't begin to understand when I read about folks that obtain free or cheap horses and expect them to behave, be impeccably trained, easy to handle, be fit and healthy, easy to manage. I've always believed you get what you pay for and there's NO such thing as a free horse. (*insert as appropriate)

    It's beyond my logic to understand why some people would get a poorly behaved or bad mannered horse and put it in a situation where it can injure someone. And to expose a child or innocent member of the public to such an animal is well.... just mind-blowingly irresponsible, culpably negligent and dim witted! The one I got that I posted about earlier aside from other issues, was a "rearer and strike out". He was put into a stable with low roof beams. Well out of the way of where any customers might go. For the first month, only ever led on a coiled 30 foot line by either me or my senior staff and when wearing hat, BP, gloves, steel toe capped boots and carrying a length of plastic poly-pipe. To expect a horse that has developed bad behaviour to just change because it's moved home is naive in the extreme.

    I find myself often saying the same things to folks when it comes to training/recovering horses.

    - Keep doing the same, you keep getting the same
    - Want something different, then DO something different
    - You get out what you put in
    - You want it to have a chance, then GIVE it a chance
    - Don't think you can learn how to train a horse by trying to train it.
    - If you're not up to the job then don't take it on
    - Never pick a fight, there'll be a loser
    - Doesn't matter how it got this way, it needs to change
    - No such thing as a free horse
    as a fellow trianer - thomas i cant stress what you said enough
    as its pet peeve of mine to

    to many to quick to balme the horse or get a hrose for a quick profit
    only its not
    i am in the same camp and as thomas has had loads of neddies
    just the same, they work when they ready and this is true you ant rush any horse be young or old or thats need time pataince
    an abused horse or spoilt horse isnt easyto re trian or rehab and its never goint to be a cheap fix
    as some are are so deeply tramtised via abuse or lack of training by people that havent a clue it can take not a week not a month not 3 months
    can take years to turn a horse around depending how deep it is
    most turn around easily enoughw ith good rountine and frim handling and patience

    no horse is a pita horse as you call it or a git or bad
    but plenty of people are ------ to a point even those that rescue or should i say buy and cant do what a horses needs like the op here
    then all the horse has done is gone from the frying pan into the fire
    and then another statestic on the slaughter roaster

    sounds harsh- when one gives up on something from lack of expreince
    lack of knowledge and quick to blame no one suffers only the horse
    op wahtever you decide to do dont get another
    Last edited by goeslikestink; Apr. 7, 2010 at 06:36 PM.



  12. #52
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    Again, how long has OP had this horse before we condemn it to death as dangerous?

    I dunno, I'm no tree hugger and pepperoni eater but it does not sound that bad based on what OP posted. Just an ill trained brat that kicked...or a horse with little or no training that got claustrophobic and felt trapped.

    I am not ready to condemn based on that, particularly if it is ferral out of the BLM program or out of some backyard where little handling was taught. Just ignorant, possibly abused. And scared.

    WAIT.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.



  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by ESG View Post
    Weeelll, I don't know about humpers, but one of the Irish jumpers (individual gold medalist, IIRC) tested positive for fluphen.
    LOL
    I wasn't always a Smurf
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    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.



  14. #54
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    There are many ways to die, some much worse than others, so Thomas, I can't agree that "dead is dead".

    Lack of a traumatic ending is a huge gift to give to a horse.
    We're spending our money on horses and bourbon. The rest we're just wasting.
    www.dleestudio.com



  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by DLee View Post

    Lack of a traumatic ending is a huge gift to give to a horse.
    Yeah...but...we give humans who kill when provoked or mentally impared a break. This horse has not killed anybody and is obviously and admittedly scared of humans. So is that the best course for him? Or can OP keep him at least awhile and TRY?
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.



  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtALossAlter View Post
    Let me preface this by saying that I'm not making any decisions right now...I am giving this time.

    However, this situation bothers me on a whole level that I can't put my finger on.

    Back story--"Resue" horse that came to my farm not long ago. I'm not a pro but have a lot of experience with difficult horses. But I've never come across something like this.

    not enough obviosuly why did he come to you

    From day one, this horse has been terrified of humans. We couldn't even catch him in his stall for the first few days to turn him out. We have no history. He's young--around 6 or 7.

    did you not put a head collar on him with a bit of bailing twine when he arrived
    to make it easier to catch him you only need a bit as wide as your hand on the ring under his chin


    Most of the time you think you could slowly work though this. However, I'm worried someone is going to get killed or seriously injured in the meantime.

    real rpoblem is are you insurred to take this on

    This horse will bolt so quickly with no warning...right over the top of you if you happen to be anywhere in the way. You can barely touch him...we were able to do a little grooming at the beginning but he has progressively gotten worse with that.

    what and how did you groom him

    when i groom a a naughty horse - i use the lunge line as its longer than a lead rope
    you put a bit of bailing twine to your hitch rail in a loop so it can break if nesscary then you atttach the long line to the horse and thread it through the baling twine , you have just oone brush to begin with in one hand and the line folded in the other hand

    so if left - the right hand grooms the left holds the line, if the horse fidgets or moves back you have the line to control him, you let the horse move back or what ever he wants to do he will only take a few steps backwards or whatever once he rrealsies he cant go anywhere he will stop
    then you bring him back to the hitch rial - and stand and good boy in soft voice
    and groom him, as grooming is bonding and also a reward for standing still
    then you change sides and do the same one brushone stratch of the head if standing still and say good boy

    your encouraging his behavior of tis a good idea



    We can't handle his feet, do any vet work or health care, can't take the halter off or we'll never get it back on. Any time you do anything besides just lead him or feed him he's dangerous to work with. He kicked me very badly a few weeks ago and almost broke my leg.


    again hitch rail and do the above with long line
    start with a front foot ie its always lf lh rh rf as most people will start with lf ie farrier so good foot 1st then a hind one then the hind then a good one
    as front are easier than hinds - why becuase people arnt scared of getting kicked
    which in turn aready tells the horse your scared which in turn gives him a doubt which in turn gives him a fear factor 1st is to flee 2nd is to adavded and thatmy freind inclues kicking

    so - lf - with the line as a control run your hand down the back of leg and pick his foot up-- if he holds for a sec reward with a pat and prase instantly as the boy been good - from secs we can build to minutes
    do the same with hind legs tuck your self into his body rund hand down back of his leg and pick his foot up - for a few secs dont worry if you cant clean them out staright away the pint is hes picking them up for you and you must praze him straight away - as tell him hes good boy

    however - if one drops his foot or pulls it out to the side this hurts the horse and its like you stabbing your dinky toe so all your doing is hurting the horse and then the horse wont be freindly as its painful when you pick his feet up

    a horse if you do it right will willing give you his foot cleaning out his feet is bonding and trsuting to a hrose
    once you have satrted picking his feet up for a few secs you build on that for a few minuts then you can cleann his foot then from there you tap it with back off your hand then move on the the back of brush then small hammer so hes all ready for a farrier or vet to attend to

    its not the job of the farrier or vet to trian a horse in how to stand still or have its feet picked out
    and this horse is only doing what hes doing becuase your doing it worng

    everything you do when handling him you praze for good by a pat and stratch which will do more god than anything else as in a horses mind it means freind

    you use your voice and tones of voice ie
    if naughty say no in deep voice if good then speak softer to him
    and praze him well
    talk to him like another human ------ dont talk namby pamby babyy stuff
    1- horses will get no quick as lack of confindece and will scare the crap out of you and 2- they havent got a clue what your talking about


    3- be firm be confident - horses are animals and can pick up on any vibe your thinking

    for a senrio - cant catch the horse thats becuase your scared of him and you told him that on day 1 when he arrived
    and now hes got the avantage

    all becuase sub conciously you dont liek to pick his feet up becuase you might get kicked so the horse thinks
    AM GOING TO KICK - COMES OUT LOUDED IN HIS MIND

    or hes bolts -- he runs becuase you told him to


    I guess what I'm trying to say is this horse really scares me...and that's a bad combination. But I don't know what the options are...no trainer would take him on and I wouldn't put someone in that situation. I don't want to "rehome" him because he could very likely be headed to a bad situation again. He can't even be a pasture pet because you can't do basic, needed care. Euthanasia is an option but many people think you are evil for considering it.

    send him to me in uk lol i would and there plenty of people that would
    but you have admitted that you got him
    if you knoew you couldnt handle him then why did you get him

    yes he can its you


    I'm sure this is why the horse was headed where he was in the first place. At least here he has had a chance at a happy life. He now goes out in a small paddock and I can catch him. But I picked up a brush today while holding him and he bolted so quickly that it was a very close brush with getting hurt again. Just the tiniest thing will set him off and he has no sense of self preservation for himself or the people around him. He's lucky he hasn't hurt himself badly with some of the stuff he's pulled.

    ont over feeed him in fact dont feed him any grian
    and go talk to him - dont be sacred it your aura that panics him because you do


    I feel very sorry for him. He is not "mean," but how can you care for a horse like this? Yes, we can wait a few months to decide (and that's where we are now) but I it takes the fun out of being out at the barn when you are dealing with such an unpredictable animal.

    takes time to re hab a horse that has no confidence or spoiilt and firm but kind hand

    On top of all this, you have people doing the "I told you so" about taking him on, but giving horses in this situation a new chance of life has always been rewarding and we have quite a few rehomed that are very much loved by their owners. You always know going in that it's a crap shoot...this one just has been a lot worse than I ever anticipated.
    sshouldnt have got him



  17. #57
    Join Date
    Apr. 2, 2004
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    I took on a horse like this once, but will never do it again. The most dangerous horse is one that lacks self preservation.

    I worked with this mare for 2 months. She was on the track for about 18 months and did ok... but started rearing in the in gate, so they retired her. Her owner wanted her to be a riding horse, and I signed on to make the transition. They couldn't find a trainer to take her on, and foolishly, I thought I could handle it. They didn't tell me all the details. They said she "spooked" often, and they needed someone knowledgeable to "expose" her to things. They said they couldn't find a trainer in the area to take her because they were all "too busy to work with a horse that just needed mileage" She was fine for the first few days, then she would explode. Everytime I thought we'd gained ground, she'd explode again. For no reason at all. Rather than bolting, she would rear and throw herself to the ground. One day, she did it, and broke her neck. I'm extremely lucky to have moved out of her way in time, or I would have gone down with her.

    I saved her from going to auction, from going to a bad handler, but couldn't save her from herself.

    She was the only horse that truly ever scared me. Others had made me nervous, etc. But this one truly scared me. She'd be fine for weeks at a time picking her feet, then one day she wouldn't be and she'd throw herself to the ground the moment she saw the hoof pick.

    There was no post-mortum done, but the vet strongly feels there was likely a brain tumor involved. There was something biologically off with the horse. It's against everything in their nature to not protect themselves, and when that's gone, there is nothing you can do.

    So if I were in your shoes, I'd either toss him out in a herd to live wild, or euthanize. Not all horses can be saved, and in the meantime you are putting yourself in his path of destruction.
    Strong promoter of READING the entire post before responding.



  18. #58
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    Jan. 17, 2008
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    Instead of picking apart what OP said, answer the question directly.

    OP feels that their is valid reason to consider euthanizing this horse.

    There are worse things than euthanizing this horse!

    There are worth things than moving on!

    Plain and simple:

    Not every horse can be saved!

    Not every horse should be saved!

    Several years ago, I took on an unhandled mustang that was terrified of people. He would take flight and panic if pushed. He would get wirey and firey if pushed at all. He would run given chance. He would go straight through people if he felt the need to....simple fix: stay out of his way. Don't push him!

    He has turned into a wonderful horse. He went from unhandled to a wonderful trail horse for me! He has some of the best ground manners I have ever seen in a horse! We took our time!

    Not every horse will fit into our lives. Not every human can work every horse. Instead of putting this horse through another situation and possibly injury, do what you feel needs to be done!



  19. #59
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    Apr. 22, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by onelanerode View Post
    Ugh, poor fellow.

    If he were mine, I'd be talking with my vet about oral sedatives and whether that might be a viable option for a set period of time to see if he chills out any and we make some progress ... so maybe a month. But if my vet and one or two other trusted, experienced horse people came and saw him and said he was not salvageable, I'd find the least stressful way I could to euth him. He has to be safe, to a point, for pros to be able to handle him for basic needs (and that is a best-case scenario). If you can't achieve that, then by all means, let him go. The thing is, if he can't be trusted to be handled by anyone but really experienced people, it may be better to euth him anyway ... really experienced, competent people capable of dealing with this kind of behavior successfully and safely (for all involved) are rare.

    Maybe this behavior is a result of poor treatment, or maybe he has a screw loose, which led to the poor treatment. There's no telling. But like PletchersMom said, some don't want to be helped. At the moment it doesn't sound like he's even trying to meet you partway. That's not a good sign.
    I would agree. I also like the idea of being in his presence, but non-threatening (like reading a book outside his paddock) and pairing him with a super-social buddy horse who can model good behavior.

    It sounds like potentially you've been trying for too much, too fast with this horse. If he's freaking out when being handled, can you back up a step and get him comfortable with humans just being nearby? Pretend he's a feral, never-been-touched horse and start over from the way beginning, building his trust up slowly?

    Before you euth him, I would at least call around to confirm that no trainer in the area would be willing to work with him. At least get a phone consult or two (maybe send a video?).

    If you feel all your options have been exhausted, I think a vet-administered euthanasia is far from the worst fate a horse like this could meet.

    But, if you have time to spare, I'm sure the horse would appreciate it. Depending on how long you've had him, he could just need more "down time" to get comfortable at your place...



  20. #60
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    Jan. 31, 2003
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    I am wondering - and this is a sincere question - how does a horse like this differ from a young horse who does the same thing? Most young horses I have had will run right thru you until taught to behave differently. Some of them have been rather large! The fix is the same for them, why not for this horse? The answer is, initially at least, that you have to be the scariest thing the horse ever encounters. You have to be very willing to be very physical with some of them, there is no time for anything else, because this is a rule that cannot be misunderstood or violated.

    So is he doing something that is radically different than what a freaked out two year old does? I am having a hard time picturing this.

    The idea of putting him w/another horse is good one, but I'm not sure I'd put him w/a a social horse per say.. I'd put him with one that is not afraid of anything environmental and would kick his butt if he got into its space, particularly if this is the horses biggest issue. I'd worry about making friends w/him later.
    "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
    ---
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.



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