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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan. 24, 2008
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    69

    Default Stunning Buckskin approved ZANGERSHEIDE stallion in the NL

    A friend from Sweden sent me this link to a stunning newly approved buttermilk buckskin Zangersheide stallion, Cream on Top.

    Bloodlines CONCORDE x Roven xx x Gran Corrado

    WOW!!! Look at that form over fences!

    http://www.creamontop.nl/
    ~Christina~ Keur-Wood Stables
    Breeders of Dutch and Swedish Warmbloods
    Standing approved Buckskin Swedish Warmblood Stallion, CATAPULT
    http://www.superiorwarmblood.com



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan. 20, 2010
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    20

    Default

    I think I'm in love!!! WOW!! Thanks for posting the link, he'll be added to the list of hopefuls for my mare!!



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr. 26, 2003
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    SoCal
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    701

    Default

    Wow. He looks like my dream pony as a little girl come to life.



  4. #4
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    Apr. 2, 2002
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    Germany
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    Looks very nice! He has the color coming from HOLLAND'S GOLDEN BOY who is the sire of Kaline and who was an American Saddlebred if I am not mistaken and approved in the Tuigpaard book of KWPN. This is what I always said, that one outside bloodline is allowed in the fourth generation to get WB entrance and Golden Boy is here in the 4th generation.
    Gwendolyn
    http://www.gestuet-falkenhorst.com
    Exceptional colored German WBs, TBs and Arabians



  5. #5
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    Nov. 5, 2000
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    9,758

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by aurum View Post
    This is what I always said, that one outside bloodline is allowed in the fourth generation to get WB entrance and Golden Boy is here in the 4th generation.
    Not necessarily. It is my understanding that Oldenburg and probably others of the large German Verbands require 6 generations of approved bloodlines before they will consider a stallion for licensing.

    Besides, this stallion was apparently approved by Zangersheide, which is a privately owned studbook - not a German Verband.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun. 15, 2001
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    MA
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    1,119

    Default

    Disclaimer: My mom told me that people might look at my name and think I had an addiction other than horses. I don't; his name was Bravado.



  7. #7
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    Oct. 3, 2002
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    But if Golden Boy was APPROVED for breeding by the Dutch... then he's APPROVED, right? And not "outside?"

    I understand that the Dutch only experimented with two ASB stallions, but back in the early 90s they were still considering looking at the right ASB mares in the US for some sort of provisional approveal.

    Sorry for the digression, but I thought I understood that if a stallion was APPROVED for breeding with any registry/verband, that meant their foals are approved/not considered 'outside' blood? Forgive me, I still don't think I get all the nuances entirely. I certainly get Book I vs. Book II, COPs, half-brands, but if, for example, an Arab stallion is Approved for Trakehner breeding, then when bred to an OSB mare, the offspring is considered "Trakehner", no? Is this not the same in others?
    InnisFailte Pinto Sporthorses & Coloured Cobs
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Bits are like cats, what's one more? (Petstorejunkie)



  8. #8
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    Apr. 2, 2002
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    Germany
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    Golden Boy was approved in the Tuigpaard Book which is the driving horses book, since all are under the umbrella of the KWPN that is often confusing for people. But it is definitely not a book for the WB breeding. So yes it is an outside blood as he was a Saddlebred and therefore only entered into the Tuigpaard book.

    Arab and TB are bloodlines that are allowed into the WB breeds if they have approval. But ASB is not an allowed bloodline in any WB breed, that is why you need to breed up to the accepted WB generations.

    Oldenburg demands 4 generations of approved parentage on the dam side and an approved sire and once there is a colt from that breeding it is approvable as this colt then has 5 generations of accepted breeding. I know this for sure as I have several mares in Oldenburgs main book.
    Gwendolyn
    http://www.gestuet-falkenhorst.com
    Exceptional colored German WBs, TBs and Arabians



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 1999
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    Greensboro, NC
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    He's a leggy boy isn't he! LOL Very, very nice.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  10. #10
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    Feb. 23, 2000
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    Ontario, Canada
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    JB, I agree, very very nice.

    http://community.webshots.com/user/ballyduff
    \"If you are going through hell, keep going.\" ~Churchill~



  11. #11
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    Thank you Gwen. That makes sense to me.

    And it was the driving horse book that the Keuring was looking at ASB mares for the year I investigated.

    Sorry for the tangent...
    InnisFailte Pinto Sporthorses & Coloured Cobs
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Bits are like cats, what's one more? (Petstorejunkie)



  12. #12
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    Nov. 5, 2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by aurum View Post
    Oldenburg demands 4 generations of approved parentage on the dam side and an approved sire and once there is a colt from that breeding it is approvable as this colt then has 5 generations of accepted breeding. I know this for sure as I have several mares in Oldenburgs main book.
    "...4 generations of approved parentage on the dam side and an approved sire" makes for 5 generations of approved parentage in the colt.

    However - I have been repeatedly told that Oldenburg requires that licensed stallions be out of MMB mares who are themselves out of MMB mares. Since MMB mares must have at least 4 generations of approved pedigree to make it into MMB, colts therefore must have 6 generations of approved pedigree to be considered as a stallion candidate.

    PMB2 – less than two generations of approved pedigree
    PBM1 – at least two generations of approved pedigree
    MB – at least three generations of approved pedigree
    MMB – at least four generations of approved pedigree (first generation MMB mare)
    MMB – second generation MMB mare (five generations approved pedigree)
    Stallion candidate colt (six generations approved pedigree)

    If this stallion has an ASB in the 4th generation, he would not meet the criteria for licensing in Oldenburg.

    And yes – PintoPiaffe – the ASB in question was approved in the KWPN driving horse book. He was not approved in the riding horse book, and therefore not considered “approved” for use in Oldenburg breeding.

    I understand that the breeding director can sometimes grant exceptions for exceptional animals, so it will be interesting to see if this particular stallion is eligible for a breeding allowance or license in Oldenburg. I don't imagine that they will take his color into consideration when deciding whether he is "exceptional enough".

    He is a very pretty boy, though!



  13. #13

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    He's Awesome!
    ~ Bill Rube ~
    http://www.bydesignfarm.com
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  14. #14
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    Apr. 2, 2002
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    DownYonder,
    that was exactly what I have written and you only GET a MMB mare IF there are 4 generations of approved pedigree.

    For a licensed stallion therefore Oldenburg demands 5 generations of approved pedigree and this stallion would not make it there if going directly but if he lives up to the expections he can very well get single breeding license with Oldenburg and he looks nice and has a fabulous style over fences so the Oldenburg Jumper division may well think about giving him a go should someone be interested to go that route.
    Gwendolyn
    http://www.gestuet-falkenhorst.com
    Exceptional colored German WBs, TBs and Arabians



  15. #15
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    Nov. 5, 2000
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    Gwen, I am a little confused about your comments, because they do not jive with what I have been consistently told through the years by two different Oldenburg breeding directors, as well as by other Oldenburg officials.

    Since this stallion has an unapproved stallion in his 4th generation, he does not meet the requirement for licensing. And I have always been told that stallions must meet the pedigree requirements to be considered for either a license or a single breeding permit. They may make an exception for this stallion if he exhibits exceptional sport horse qualities, but I doubt they will make the exception simply because he is an unusual color.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan. 17, 2007
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    Amsterdam, The Netherlands
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by aurum View Post
    Golden Boy was approved in the Tuigpaard Book which is the driving horses book, since all are under the umbrella of the KWPN that is often confusing for people. But it is definitely not a book for the WB breeding. So yes it is an outside blood as he was a Saddlebred and therefore only entered into the Tuigpaard book.

    Arab and TB are bloodlines that are allowed into the WB breeds if they have approval. But ASB is not an allowed bloodline in any WB breed, that is why you need to breed up to the accepted WB generations.

    Oldenburg demands 4 generations of approved parentage on the dam side and an approved sire and once there is a colt from that breeding it is approvable as this colt then has 5 generations of accepted breeding. I know this for sure as I have several mares in Oldenburgs main book.
    A "tuigpaard" is also a WB. The foundation parents in the KWPN are all the same. Through specialising in breeding we have riding, Gelderland and harness horses.

    It is allowed to use a harness horse stallion on a riding horse and register the foal as a riding horse.
    So, HGB was an approved KWPN stallion.



  17. #17
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    Apr. 2, 2002
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    As Janderegelaar just pointed out the stallion Golden Boy WAS approved just not in a book that Oldenburg would recognize but in a book that the KWPN holds.

    I do not think Oldenburg would deny entrance to any good stallion that proves itself well and has good breeding.

    Sempatico and Chess both have Oldenburg acceptance and the dam side has Ico who also had just 3 generations of pedigree.
    Gwendolyn
    http://www.gestuet-falkenhorst.com
    Exceptional colored German WBs, TBs and Arabians



  18. #18
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    Nov. 5, 2000
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    [QUOTE=janderegelaar;4781112]It is allowed to use a harness horse stallion on a riding horse and register the foal as a riding horse.[QUOTE]

    Really? I did not know this. Wow, that really opens up the door for Dutch breeders to use those big trotting harness stallions on their dressage mares. Very cool!



  19. #19
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    Nov. 5, 2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by aurum View Post
    I do not think Oldenburg would deny entrance to any good stallion that proves itself well and has good breeding.
    Agree with this!

    Quote Originally Posted by aurum View Post
    Sempatico and Chess both have Oldenburg acceptance and the dam side has Ico who also had just 3 generations of pedigree.
    Seems it is a bit of a different situation since Ico's damline consists of NWP horses, which (as I understand it) was a recognized Dutch studbook prior to KWPN.

    At any rate, it will be interesting to see if Oldenburg does waive its usual rule and give this buckskin stallion a breeding permit. Does anyone know if he has been performance tested?



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan. 17, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by aurum View Post
    As Janderegelaar just pointed out the stallion Golden Boy WAS approved just not in a book that Oldenburg would recognize but in a book that the KWPN holds.

    Every breed directory of the KWPN is world wide recognized as WB breeding.

    As long as the progeny is from a covering while the stallion was approved, the paper counts as full paper.

    Please show us the Oldenburg rules that say that the KWPN harness horses are not taken in the Oldenburg books.



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