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  1. #1
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    Default Change in size of Troxel helmets - they would like your feedback

    Edited to add: please scroll through, since Troxel did make it right. But please, let them know that you are disappointed with the changes they made - the only way they can fix it is by getting your feedback!



    A vent, since my old helmet is past due and now I have to go helmet shopping:

    I ordered a new Troxel Legacy Gold from Rick's some weeks back. They had none in stock, and had it shipped directly from Troxel. This will be my fourth Legacy Gold, and I also have their Grand Prix (on my third). Since I am a pinhead, I wear a small (with my hair in a bulky French braid and a balaclava).

    Helmet arrives, looks gorgeous. I take it to the barn, proceed to get ready to ride, and can't even get the thing on my head. Took it off, perplexed, compared with my old helmet. The plastic shell is clearly far smaller.

    I take off the balaclava, undo the braid, and I can get the helmet on my head but knew if I kept it on I would have permanently squashed brains.

    Compare it with a 2nd Troxel. Same thing. I wear a smaller size in the Grand Prix as well, and the older helmets still fit, so it's not like my ego took a sudden huge jump and swelled my head into a larger size.

    I send it back to Rick's, not just because I think the sizing is defective (it did say small, not "beyond pinhead") but because Troxel apparently sent out a helmet that was dated 2007. Rick's sends it on to Troxel with a copy of my letter detailing the issue.

    The don't hear from Troxel for a bit, but, having great customer service, they just went ahead and refunded everything. I am waiting to hear from Troxel, because if they're changing the sizing, I may as well start looking around for a new brand, one that stays consistent with the style.

    Finally, Rick's hears from Troxel. No change in sizing or styling. Troxel thinks that I am using the thicker inner padding as opposed to the thinner. Which, if they had read the letter, would have indicated that this was not the case. It's hardly the first Troxel Legacy Gold I have purchased (and all from different sources). They also suggested to Rick's that perhaps Rick's had sent me one of their older helmets, and that Troxel was not responsible for sending me a helmet that had been sitting on the shelf for 3 years.

    So - since I don't know what the heck to order at this point - I call up Troxel to see if they can address the issue. They are absolutely firm. The helmet is not defective, they have not changed in any way, and apparently my head must be swelling or I am inflating the padding, or pethaps am having issues with "thick" versus "thin."

    I tell them that if I can't be certain that the size within a style is consistent, there's no point in ordering the helmet, because what if I drop it or take a fall in the near future? I can't get the same sized replacement. And if I can't fit the helmet on my head, it's not much use for head protection.

    The Troxel customer service rep just refused to address the issue. And so - sadly - I will be looking for a different helmet. From a different company. One with better sizing standards and quality control. And one that was manufactured in this year or last, so, barring any falls, it will be good for the next 5 years, as opposed to the next 2.

    Sorry Troxel. I loved your helmets. Now, not so much. In fact, now, not at all.
    Last edited by DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"; Jul. 20, 2010 at 09:49 AM.
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  2. #2
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho" View Post

    <snip> so it's not like my ego took a sudden huge jump and swelled my head into a larger size.

    <snip>
    ..
    Well, if that's your story......



  3. #3
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    Default Hay

    Good on Ricks! But I can never figure out why a manufacturer would not stand by their products. I mean really how much does a Troxel helmet that is probably made in China*** REALLY cost them. If I were them, I'd have made it right.

    ***This I'm not sure of this so don't quote me.

    Or you know, it could be that they were manufactured in the USA and now in China hence the difference? Hmmm.
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  4. #4
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    Default

    I lived 5 minutes from Ricks, I loved their service! Almost everything I own...was from there.



  5. #5
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    Default

    Rick's was terrific. But I now have a conundrum - I wanted to buy the new helmet from them, as fair is fair But I don't live anywhere near them, and so since I have to try on first, I don't feel it's right to walk into a local tack store, try on all their helmets, and walk out with the sizing and no purchase.

    So maybe I will just have to buy something else...perhaps yet another skull and crossbones saddle pad....
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  6. #6
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    Go higher in the company. Contact their MD and send photos of the helmets side by side. Might not do any good, but at least you're not going to get blown off by a bored/pissed off sales rep.
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  7. #7
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    I assure you you are not crazy.

    No, no wait, that's not right.

    But you are correct that the helmet sizing has changed. They are full of it. I have a medium from a few years back- maybe 2007? My Mother & trainer both have size mediums purchased in January- same style, newer model. I cannot get them on my head.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubyfree View Post
    I assure you you are not crazy.

    No, no wait, that's not right.

    But you are correct that the helmet sizing has changed. They are full of it. I have a medium from a few years back- maybe 2007? My Mother & trainer both have size mediums purchased in January- same style, newer model. I cannot get them on my head.

    I KNEW IT!!!

    I knew it wasn't my ego, as any possible head swelling has been deflated on a consistent basis by both my horse and my trainer. And even if this had been the case, my old Troxel should have imploded with my head stuffed in it, and I'm sure someone would have noticed the mess of plastic shards and brain bits.

    I am just worried that the best fit will be a GPA and will set me back the equivalent of 6-7 skull and crossbones saddle pads.
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  9. #9
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    Don't forget the skull and crossbones halter, lead line and, oh yes!, boot bag to go with!



  10. #10
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    Default OT: Phrenology for the modern evolutionist

    Geek: Your not being stupid nor author of incomplete letters but pin headed in this case brings up an important phenomenon I have noticed.

    The smarter the person (especially about evolutionary biology), the smaller the head.

    I have a pretty small head. Then there's you. 1.5 data points. And then there's my PhD advisor. He's a tall, spidery guy, a major historian of theoretical population genetics and a real pinhead. Seriously-- a man 9 or 10 inches taller than me and a hat I can't squeeze on my head? That's 3.5 of 3.5 surveyed.

    What do you think?
    The armchair saddler
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  11. #11
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    Then Troxel has decided to change their sizing to target only certified genuises.

    So. How many geniuses ride? Or do only the smart people wear helmets? Does wearing a helmet make you smarter? Then wouldn't my head have shrunk, in keeping with their sizing change?

    Since most people who ride Western don't wear helmets, but cowboy hats, are they smarter? Dumber?

    Then the high level GP dressage riders who don't wear helmets must be incredibly stupid? Or did they start out smart, learn how to ride, and then become progressively more stupid?

    We need to show cause and effect, not just correlation. Maybe Troxel will fund this study...that is, if anyone can fit into their helmets....
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  12. #12
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    I'll answer your various questions. Unfortunately, I'm not smart enough to intersperse your text and mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho" View Post
    Then Troxel has decided to change their sizing to target only certified genuises.

    So. How many geniuses ride? Or do only the smart people wear helmets? Does wearing a helmet make you smarter? Then wouldn't my head have shrunk, in keeping with their sizing change?

    Since most people who ride Western don't wear helmets, but cowboy hats, are they smarter? Dumber?

    Then the high level GP dressage riders who don't wear helmets must be incredibly stupid? Or did they start out smart, learn how to ride, and then become progressively more stupid?

    We need to show cause and effect, not just correlation. Maybe Troxel will fund this study...that is, if anyone can fit into their helmets....
    No, wearing helmets does not make you smarter at this point. Selection pressure for that particular behavior is almost nil. Many people are too smart to ride at all, avoiding risk of death/low reproductive success. Others-- arguably stupid-- wear helmets for comparatively low-risk stuff like roller skating. They stay stubbornly in the gene pool and bubble-wrap their offspring as well. Upper-level dressage riders get fund-raising T-shirts made for them and probably better medical care than your average person after making helmetless mistakes.

    Now the western world has long made hats for heads and bodies of any size and shape. This was one of the original places to spend a lot of money on ornamental headwear. Very important for reproductive success, perhaps accomplished through sexual selection and not merely living long enough to pop some puppies.

    I think the high-end English world versus the traditional western world may have K- and R-selected strategies going on too, confounding the outcomes.

    If Troxel can't read your letter, I don't think they can design a study distinguishing between correlation and causation.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    No, wearing helmets does not make you smarter at this point. Selection pressure for that particular behavior is almost nil. Many people are too smart to ride at all, avoiding risk of death/low reproductive success. Others-- arguably stupid-- wear helmets for comparatively low-risk stuff like roller skating. They stay stubbornly in the gene pool and bubble-wrap their offspring as well. Upper-level dressage riders get fund-raising T-shirts made for them and probably better medical care than your average person after making helmetless mistakes.
    I would argue that association with horses, especially for the male, is considered an enormous attractant. This may not correlate with helmet or hat wear, and certainly need not correlate with intelligence. Unless Pat Parrelli is the exception to the rule?

    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    Now the western world has long made hats for heads and bodies of any size and shape. This was one of the original places to spend a lot of money on ornamental headwear. Very important for reproductive success, perhaps accomplished through sexual selection and not merely living long enough to pop some puppies.
    I disagree. I do not think it is the hat at all, but the bling on the chaps fringe and the shoulder epaulets. Although...do the rodeo guys wear bling? Doesn't it blind the bulls? Or is that the point?

    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    I think the high-end English world versus the traditional western world may have K- and R-selected strategies going on too, confounding the outcomes.
    Absolutely. And let's not even get into the saddlebred world.

    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    If Troxel can't read your letter, I don't think they can design a study distinguishing between correlation and causation.
    But they could hire us to do the study, and then interpret and explain the results to them.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho" View Post

    So maybe I will just have to buy something else...perhaps yet another skull and crossbones saddle pad....
    lol, my daughter loves her skull and crossbones pad that she got at Rick's! I have shopped Rick's since he had just the one store in Englishtown... (cough) 20 (cough) some years ago. I've never had bad service.



  15. #15
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    Interesting, for years I always took a Medium Troxel, then I ordered a new one, got a medium and it was too small... I just figured they changed their design....I switched to Charles Owen.



  16. #16
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    The sizing has definitely changed!

    I have a big head and have been wearing a Troxel Legacy Gold in large for years- I think I've had at least 3 or 4 of them. Bought the new one this fall and it barely fits. I didn't try it on right away when I bought it (silly me, I assumed it would fit!) and by the time I realized the issue it was past when the store was willing to refund it. So, I'm stuck with it

    Next go around I'm getting a different brand
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  17. #17
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    Yes - I hope Troxel sees the thread (since I sent them the link) - just be up front. Tell the stores, and put it on your website, that you have updated the styling - give it a positive spin. Don't lie and tell people it hasn't changed and that you are incapable of figuring out when something that has to be crammed onto your head is too small.

    I am also going to seek out a different brand.
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  18. #18
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    Bumping an old thread because it was linked in a more recent one, and I had to comment - now the fact that I had to go through a whole row of mediums last time I was trail riding at a trail riding sort of place (borrowed helmets, I know, ew) makes some sense because there were quite definitely 'large' mediums and 'small' mediums, even taking into account the padding adjustments.

    I was not imagining that they were different sizes! (Said trail riding place just picks one model that's on sale and buys a stack of them in small, medium, large, and then replaces them with the same model as necessary. They get a lot of kids riding and I think having them all the same helps prevent squabbles over who gets which one.)



  19. #19
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    I will add that Troxel DID make it right! The CEO contacted me, and offered me a new helmet, and was interested in feedback on the sizing. They have now realized that the changes they made did not, as I'm sure they hoped, appeal to a greater number of people.

    Since I had already bought a new helmet, I asked if they would mind if I donated the helmet to the next Special Horses fundraiser, and they were delighted to do so.

    PM me if you'd like for the e mail address for the CEO, or contact Troxel directly. I am sure they would appreciate your feedback!
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  20. #20
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    I have been a faithful Troxel wearer for years now. My schooling helmet is getting old, so on Helmet Awareness Day, I ordered a replacement Legacy Gold Troxel...a size medium, just like all my others.

    Got it last night and it wouldn't fit on my head! I could get it on if I took all the liners out and CRAMMED it (a layer of crisco probably would've helped too). Double plus ungood Now I have to ship it back and, I guess, go shopping for a different brand of helmet.

    What's the deal, Troxel??



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