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  1. #1
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    Default Did he REALLY get a flying lead change? Video

    My horse (wonderful beast that he is) does not have a natural flying lead change. Lately I've been concentrating on simple lead changes. Sometimes its as easy as half halting, breaking stride for a moment, and then we're on the other lead. One of those blink-and-you-miss-it things.

    So here's where the video comes in. I think...maybe...that he might have crossed the line from a really smooth simple change to an honest-to-God flying change. It's at 0:57 in the video (coming off the diagonal line). Can I have some input from the COTHers? Is this a faux flying change or the real deal?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMDRv48WTqE

    Sorry for the shaky filming. Feel free to just skip to the end for the lead change



  2. #2
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    Hard to tell since the camera shook at that exact moment, but after watching it a few times I think that it was a very well executed simple change. Sorry to disappoint you. He is adorable though! I love how chunky he is...I just want to squeeze him!
    My CANTER cutie Chip and IHSA shows!
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  3. #3
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    Simple change. He trots a brief step to switch leads.
    ~*Adult Pony Rider Clique*~
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  4. #4
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    Agree with To the MAX. A very fast, clean simple change. You've got a cutie on your hands!
    Quote Originally Posted by MistyPony View Post
    In all my years of riding, gravity is the one thing that has never failed on me!



  5. #5
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    Default

    :57 is definitely a simple change; there's a clear trot step in there. However, there may have been a real flying change at :50. It's impossible to know since his hind end is cut off, but he changes in front after the first fence on the diagonal. Could have landed in cross canter and switched the front to match, or could be a true change. Either way, he's super cute!



  6. #6
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    Sigh. Even the clinician was fooled! Oh well. Thanks for the input, and the kind words. I guess I'll keep him anyway



  7. #7
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    After watching that particularly segment VERY closely a few times, I would say it is a lead change (flying) HOWEVER, a "very flat" lead change. There is no trot stride, he does change behind and then carry thru in the front. But the issue with a horse like this is that his canter has nearly no suspension, which is what causes the problem. He needs to learn (as much as is possible for a heavier hunter like this) to collect and create some suspension in his canter to get "clearer" lead changes.



  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbit351w View Post
    :57 is definitely a simple change; there's a clear trot step in there. However, there may have been a real flying change at :50. It's impossible to know since his hind end is cut off, but he changes in front after the first fence on the diagonal. Could have landed in cross canter and switched the front to match, or could be a true change. Either way, he's super cute!
    The "change" at 0:50 came from cross cantering on the landing and then fixing it in front. He's pretty slick about it, most people think he's doing a real change.



  9. #9
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    He actually swaps his front legs but had a step of trot behind - still a very cute horse and you rode him very well.
    **********
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  10. #10
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    Question

    At 57sec. to me it looks as if he shuffled into the change. Its decieving to see unless you watch it really closely. He did trot but it was very shuffled and it was actually about 2 trot steps. He shuffled so much though it looked much less and hard to tell. He is adorable though. I like him Keep up with the simple changes and get them down to one trot and go from there, maybe use some ground poles to help durning the change. You are really going to have to support a big chunk like this one. Hold him together and help him thru the change.
    Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole



  11. #11
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    I'll count my blessings that judges can't call a time out for a slo-mo instant replay

    Thanks again for the kind words. We're showing this weekend - first time at 3' since an epic colic surgery in Dec '08. Keep your fingers crossed that we land on all our leads and the judge has a thing for big boned hunters



  12. #12
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    Close there. Not really a trot step, kind of agree with the shuffle, almost like a step with a lateral gait like pace or stepping pace (trot is diagonal) or even something like a running walk. Fact if he had the diagonal pair (of legs) working it might have been even closer to a flying change. He got any fancy stepping/walking or gaited ancestry you know of? That lateral move for a step there suggests it, most horses don't do that unless they have something in the ancestry that was bred for that. It can be a few generations back too.

    I realize that is not much help but maybe picking up his front end would be? When you slow way down to try to get that change, he is dropping in front. That is normal when you take the forward away from them. It may be hard for him to stay packaged but IMO it can be done. Maybe a different bit and more impulsion?
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.



  13. #13
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    Good call findeight, I thought of running walk or racking when I saw the shuffle but put it off to trot step shuffle instead because well, he really doesn't look as if he has a lateral tendency in the rest. I agree with you though, it looks like a running walk, like our gaited horses.
    Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole



  14. #14
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    That lateral gait can run in anything from Morgans to carriage breeds to various walking breeds, not just TWH or ASB.

    Out west in my younger days it was called "single footing" and a couple of QH lines were notorious for having it pop up after skipping several generations, cool for ranch work or trail riding, not so good for any canter or lead change work.

    Glad it was not just me that saw that.

    Duckz can work around it though, once you know it's there you can school around it. Not the kiss of death or anything if it only pops up occasionally but it is probably the reason she is having the lead change problem.

    Pick him up, keep him up and step on the gas. Go too slow and let him dump on the front and he will rack/singlefoot, running walk or whatever for a step.

    Sometimes having worked with alot of mixed breeds or unknown breeding and having friends in various and sometimes more exotic disciplines comes in handy.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.



  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by findeight View Post
    That lateral gait can run in anything from Morgans to carriage breeds to various walking breeds, not just TWH or ASB.

    Out west in my younger days it was called "single footing" and a couple of QH lines were notorious for having it pop up after skipping several generations, cool for ranch work or trail riding, not so good for any canter or lead change work.

    Glad it was not just me that saw that.

    Duckz can work around it though, once you know it's there you can school around it. Not the kiss of death or anything if it only pops up occasionally but it is probably the reason she is having the lead change problem.

    Pick him up, keep him up and step on the gas. Go too slow and let him dump on the front and he will rack/singlefoot, running walk or whatever for a step.

    Sometimes having worked with alot of mixed breeds or unknown breeding and having friends in various and sometimes more exotic disciplines comes in handy.
    That is what I was getting at when I said it was "flat", he never actually trotted but he did a flat looking change behind then went to front in more of a lateral way. Didn't really hit me that is was similar to a gaited type horse. Might just be the fact that the draft types have little to no suspension in their gaits.



  16. #16
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    One of the most successful show horses I ever worked with was a red roan Half Arab with flaxen mane and tail and bald face. Papers said "unknown" for the sire but there was no doubt it was a TWH.

    This thing got mad, tired or upset, it would running walk. Sometimes at most inappropriate times .

    Despite that he was a Regional Reserve Champion or Top Five in Trail and ranked in WP several years runnning on the competitive Pacific Coast. Even did well on the old AHSA Open circuit in Trail in very good competition. Really a very good show horse...unless he got mad.

    This draft cross of Duckz does not look nearly as predisposed to "go lateral" as that one was so it's NBD other then she needs to be aware.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.



  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by findeight View Post
    One of the most successful show horses I ever worked with was a red roan Half Arab with flaxen mane and tail and bald face. Papers said "unknown" for the sire but there was no doubt it was a TWH.

    This thing got mad, tired or upset, it would running walk. Sometimes at most inappropriate times .

    Despite that he was a Regional Reserve Champion or Top Five in Trail and ranked in WP several years runnning on the competitive Pacific Coast. Even did well on the old AHSA Open circuit in Trail in very good competition. Really a very good show horse...unless he got mad.

    This draft cross of Duckz does not look nearly as predisposed to "go lateral" as that one was so it's NBD other then she needs to be aware.
    My half ASB does this when she get's confused, she racks. She did this at a local Hunter show one time when I was picking up a canter for a course of fences. Somehow we got second despite.



  18. #18
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    Watched it again, still looks to me like he switched in front took a normal trot step behind. At any rate, not a flying lead change.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by findeight View Post
    He got any fancy stepping/walking or gaited ancestry you know of?
    Interesting! Not that I know of, but anything is possible He came from a dealer who got him from a breeder. Supposedly the sire is a TB and the dam is a Paint/Percheron cross. No papers of course!

    We had a great jumping lesson tonight and worked on those faux flying lead changes. It sure beats forcing the swap in front and trying to make the back catch up three strides later. Then we get rushy and off balance and legs are flying everywhere. No sir, I'll take gaited lead change shuffle

    Thanks so much for the input!



  20. #20
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    I see normal trot step behind, flying change up front.



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