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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec. 14, 2003
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    amish country, pa
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    I would just like to comment on how shocked I am at the number of so called "excellent" trainers (in my area at least) that use methods like this of training horses to jump. I read an article awhile back on a related issue to this and it clearly states...BY LAW>>>SPIKE POLES, SHARP OBJECTS IN PROTECTIVE BOOTS, and other forms of PAINFUL training IS ILLEGAL AND CONSIDERED ABUSE! Please take this in to consideration and let somone know if you know of trainers doing this. Just out of curiosity do any of you know of trainers who do this? What are your opinions and such?
    Member of the Baby Greenie Support Group, NO HORSES TO SLAUGHTER, warmblood (trakehner), GPA/TS, chicken jumpers, Disgruntled college student and OCD clique!!!



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec. 14, 2003
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    amish country, pa
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    Default

    I would just like to comment on how shocked I am at the number of so called "excellent" trainers (in my area at least) that use methods like this of training horses to jump. I read an article awhile back on a related issue to this and it clearly states...BY LAW>>>SPIKE POLES, SHARP OBJECTS IN PROTECTIVE BOOTS, and other forms of PAINFUL training IS ILLEGAL AND CONSIDERED ABUSE! Please take this in to consideration and let somone know if you know of trainers doing this. Just out of curiosity do any of you know of trainers who do this? What are your opinions and such?
    Member of the Baby Greenie Support Group, NO HORSES TO SLAUGHTER, warmblood (trakehner), GPA/TS, chicken jumpers, Disgruntled college student and OCD clique!!!



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb. 18, 2001
    Location
    New York, NY
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    Have you every seen a spike pole?

    It's nubby plastic, like the bottom of an office mat. I would hardly call it painful...

    Do you really think that trainers are going to subject their very, very expensive horses to pain. I don't think so.

    Maybe get some real info about what goes on THEN come and complain. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...n_rolleyes.gif

    - L.

    It's all about the act right.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb. 16, 2004
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    Southern New Jersey / Venice, Fla.
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    3,546

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    I know of a few trainers who put the tacks you use on carpeting on tape and lay them on their jumps so when their horses hit a fence they know it . Not all trainers use harsh methods, I believe that every horse has a calling, if it wasnt meant to jump don't make it, Let it do something else..

    http://community.webshots.com/user/zedcadjna
    Let the horse go, get out of its way, it knows what to do...Stop pulling and keep kicking!!!!!!



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov. 24, 2002
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    216

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    I think the pain of hitting a heavy wooden poll over and over outways the pain of hitting some plastic tacks a couple of times and then deciding to be a little less lazy and not hit it the next time. they dont hurt them that bad just enough to make a horse say ya know what that pole is a bit heavy and now its a little prickly maybe i better just pick up my feet a little more.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb. 21, 2004
    Location
    South Carolina
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    207

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    Whalo,

    Putting a horse in pain to make him better is not the way at all. If that is the case then there are alot of riders that need to be beat to near death to be better riders.



  7. #7
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    Dec. 14, 2003
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    amish country, pa
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    i agree juppy....

    Tha Ridge...I know for FACT...seen first hand trainers use heavy wooden spike poles w/ METAL NAILS poking out of then. I've seen horses w/ legs up from them...maybe you've seen (or used http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...n_rolleyes.gif) milder versions...but if its now a LAW stating they're a form of abuse, I think it is an issue
    Member of the Baby Greenie Support Group, NO HORSES TO SLAUGHTER, warmblood (trakehner), GPA/TS, chicken jumpers, Disgruntled college student and OCD clique!!!



  8. #8
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    Nov. 24, 2002
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    216

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    juppy,
    the point i was trying to make is the pain inflicted on the skin of the horses leg from the tacks is much better than if the repeatedly knock a rail and get sore shins and such. If they decide that the pricks bug them enough to pick up thier feet then they will save themselves from soreness later from hard rubs on the rails repeatedly. Plus are you against spurs also??



  9. #9
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    Dec. 14, 2003
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    amish country, pa
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    whalo, spurs are a different topic...both spurs and whips can be used constructivly or abusivly. any artificle aid used to train a horse can be abusive. Whips and spurs can cause lacerations and brusing if used improperly. As for the spike poles seen around local barns and some of the horses legs...I think you'd be shocked.
    Member of the Baby Greenie Support Group, NO HORSES TO SLAUGHTER, warmblood (trakehner), GPA/TS, chicken jumpers, Disgruntled college student and OCD clique!!!



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan. 13, 2004
    Location
    New York**zone 2
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    60

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    Well then i think that these spiked poles can additionally be used as "training devices" although i dont deney that some use them abusivly. About the "by law statement" this law is used primaraly for the safty of the ride it is very dangerous to have riders fallign off or being dragged in to sharp objects. And although i dont fully agree with the use of such things it will 1) teach the animal not to do it again and might prevent further health issuse and 2) i feel that spicked polls, spicked boots, nosebands with spickes, wips, spurs, even eltrical fencing ...etc all fall hand in hand by being training materials that may/can turn abusive

    *~First god made man, then he though better of it and made a woman, and then he made a horse who combines the spirit and strangth of a man and the beauty and grace of a woman~*
    Astound (this is my new boy that i got from OH)
    Western Dance <3
    Lauren Bacall <3 (for sale)
    *~First god made man, then he though better of it and made a woman, and then he made a horse who combines the spirit and strangth of a man and the beauty and grace of a woman~*
    Astound (this is my new boy that i got from OH)
    Western Dance <3
    Laure



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov. 18, 2001
    Location
    USA, formerly Canada!
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    I went to a reputable trainer's barn to school a couple years ago and she had spiked poles. They're no big deal. As previously said, they are just plastic and inflict no visible wound to the horse. Just makes them get those knees up higher http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c.../icon_wink.gif



  12. #12
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    Jul. 2, 2003
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    Woodland, Ca
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    Most people don't realize that it is a misdeamenor in California to use spiked poles. Personally I don't want to support a trainer that is willing to use them. It shows me that he isn't able (or willing) to teach a horse to jump correctly without taking shortcuts.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb. 18, 2004
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    206

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    If you have to use such devices as spiked poles, etc. maybe your horse isn't destined to be a hunter/jumper. Why are we forever trying to convince our horses to be something they aren't? Can't we just respect our horses as they are? There's a reason why these devices were termed as abusive guys...



  14. #14
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    Feb. 18, 2001
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    New York, NY
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    Oh, come on, it doesn't mean the horse isn't cut-out to be a Hunter or a Jumper.

    Horses get lazy, some just for the heck of it...how wrong is it for them to get a reminder once in awhile?

    I've been with a trainer who use(s/d) them and believe me, I didn't leave her because of that. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...n_rolleyes.gif

    I don't think I've met a trainer or rider that was competitive on the "A"-circuit that really even cared about spiked rails...

    - L.

    It's all about the act right.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep. 15, 2002
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    994

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    Have you ever tried to even touch those plastic pointy ends on a plastic carpet runner. They are horrendously painful.

    No one is going to tell me that a horse hitting those darn things (even brushing them) at speed over a fence is not going to feel it or "it is no worse then hitting a rail" The rails will fall off...those spikes and the hurt they cause remain on those legs for a while.

    In Canada I do believe they are illegal to use. I personally would be appalled to see anyone use it to teach a horse to be more "careful". And I would certainly have no association with people that did so.

    There is absolutely no excuse for this type of behaviour or mistreatment in training a horse to jump in my opinion.

    And I must disagree with "The Ridge" comment that no rider or trainer on the A circuit even cares about spiked rails being used on their horses. Are you kidding?????? (I hope so for your horses sake)



  16. #16
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    Nov. 29, 2001
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    the real question for pretty much anyone involved in training any kind of animal is where to toe the line. If you don't use any artificial anything of any kind, then, i hate to say it, you're probably taking one of the least efficient, most time consuming and fustrating paths of training. Aside from the "I'm all natural, hahahaha," organic farming pride that you might get, all you're going to feel is fustrated, and, more importantly, all your horse is going to feel is confused. So you know what, if your horse finally understands that it's a heck of a lot easier for him to carry himself than to be tottering around balanced on your hands, then sticking a mikmar in his mouth might not be the worst idea. If a schooling session or a few shows with a chain noseband help the horse realize that if he doesn't run you will, in fact, get him to easier-to-jump-from distances, use it. If a short, to the point poling session before you go to a show keeps the horse from coming back with sore shins, and honestly, keeps you from paying for him to go in and 8fault his way around a course, fine.

    HOWEVER, those are all tricks to be put in a bag, like being able to jump out of hand in case there's a tight turn or always riding with a stick and spurs, even if your horse doesn't need them. It is your OBLIGATION, as someone who has chosen to accept the responsiblity of horse ownership, to know where training aide turns into abusive article:

    square pole? fine. pole wrapped in nubby rubber? fine. pole with carpet tacks on it? not fine.

    harsh bit in nice hands? fine. bit of any short in not nice hands? not really fine. harsh bit in bad hands? terrible.

    riding in deep and weak to a high vertical with no boots? fine. weighted boots? fine. boots with shards in them? not fine.

    gadgets aren't really like guns: there's no positive use for a gun, but there can be positive uses for gadgets...however, they're both similar in that it is the action of a person, not the dormant object, that can be bad.

    The problem is that a lot of poeple use tricks that they don't know how to use, and they work marginally well, but not well enough. if you're going to wrap a pole in something nubby, you have to ride to it so that the horse hits it really hard. If you can't do that (and you'd be surprise at how many trainers you see in the mornings trying to get a rub and not--at least one would hope they're trying to get a rub with the distances they're going to) then you might think "ahh, the horse isn't resonding. where are the nails?" because your ego is too inflated to realize that if you rode properly the horse would respond.

    so that's my uberlong reply.

    BoR:
    "I always feel like an idiot. But I am an idiot, so it kinda works out."--Billy Madison

    "A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."--Churchill

    Um, I don\'t spell check. Deal with it.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul. 29, 2003
    Location
    Aiken,SC
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    552

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    I do not think that spiked poles should ever be used. How would you like to be having an off day and have someone knock the crap out of you with sharp nails. Why can't they come up with a different method? Iknow of agreat way to get horses to pick not only their knees but their whole front end uo higher and there is no pain. I would not support a trainer who uses spiked poles or even hits one with a regular pole. Not when what they want to accomplish can be done other painless ways.
    I'm so busy.....I don't know if I found a rope or lost my horse.

    Alright put your big girl panties on and deal with it!



  18. #18
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    Apr. 3, 2003
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    Up the creek from bar.ka
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    I know Grand Prix riders / trainers on BOTH coasts who have successful businesses and horses who use these methods and I've seen some use poling too.

    Think of it this way, if you're heading through a course of 4 Ft 9 inche high jumps you don't want to do it on a horse who is not sharp and careful, you could both get seriously injured or killed.

    ~~Every year the senseless slaughtering of millions just for their hides. Poor little Nagas.~~

    "I admitted to myself and to god that I am powerless over COTHBB" - anonymous.



  19. #19
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    Apr. 3, 2003
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    I've NEVER seen someone use nails on a pole. Plastic strips with nubs on them yes, nails no.

    ~~Every year the senseless slaughtering of millions just for their hides. Poor little Nagas.~~

    "I admitted to myself and to god that I am powerless over COTHBB" - anonymous.



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Mar. 4, 2004
    Location
    Boston, MA
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    We have spike poles at my barn and I really don't think they're a big deal. Of course beginner riders/green horses that have a high chance of hitting the jump aren't using them. They just have those plastic carpet spikes...not that sharp. We don't over face the horses with tall jumps with spike poles; they are simply used to make the horse a little more careful. Some horses do get lazy and need to be reminded to respect the jumps ocassionally.

    My trainers have also been know to tape a row of thumbtacks to our saddle to make sure we are out of the tack enough in the air...theyare sharper than pole tacks, and I've landed on them a few times. It stings, but no lasting pain.



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