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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul. 31, 2008
    Posts
    854

    Default Do we look like idiots?

    I went out to ride this afternoon, noticed a gorgeous new horse in one of the stalls, and asked my trainer who we was. She told me it's a GP prospect for her to show, owners had a major falling out with their last rider (very BNT) and brought him over to her. He was so gorgeous, I asked what breed. She said, I don't know, here is the packet they gave me. In a manila envelope is a coggins and a passport. Both definitely not the same horse, and NEITHER matches the horse in the stall! And not even close! Horse is a dark dark almost black grey stallion, 6 years old. Coggins is a grey gelding, 14 years old. Passport is a chestnut gelding, 6 years old. I know chestnuts can turn grey, but those things don't usually grow back, do they?

    Seriously, what is wrong with people.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec. 30, 2009
    Location
    The Great Plains of Canada
    Posts
    3,066

    Default

    That's so terrible...I mean, could it have been an honest mistake, as in, sending the wrong paperwork with the horse? I don't think that's a jab at you guys' intelligence, but rather a show of theirs, if they were actually trying to pass him off as the Coggins and passport horses That's just so odd!



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar. 5, 2007
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    1,580

    Default

    Sounds more like a mix up of paperwork to me, specially if he was commercially shipped. Just hoping that they don't need the coggins for that gelding anytime soon! :-)
    Timothy, stop lurking



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb. 22, 2000
    Location
    Keswick, VA
    Posts
    7,872

    Default

    I would suggest making sure you have the horse you're supposed to have. Sometimes it's the horses that get mixed up, and not the paperwork. You may want to be sure of that before you aim it at any jumps.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar. 5, 2007
    Location
    Pontiac, MI
    Posts
    1,352

    Default

    Your trainer didn't think to maybe... CHECK this stuff out before taking the horse??



  6. #6

    Default

    I imagine it went along the line of. . . .

    Client and trainer have large falling out. Client yanks horse out, barn manager told to get fluffy's paperwork together. BM doesnt know if Fluffy is snoodle von snoodle or doodle de doodle, and is pissed at client for causing drama in the barn and pissing off her boss. She doesnt care and grabs the thing that is closest to right to get angry client out of there. Client prob has no idea if fluffy is snoodle or doodle, really.

    I doubt there was anything malicious - just carelessness.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct. 9, 2003
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    3,797

    Default

    Ugh. I was once told by the business manager of a VERY BNT, "What the hell difference does a Hunter's bloodlines make? When these people ask for papers and the horse they just bought doesn't have them, I just send some other horse's!"



    I was NOT impressed. Don't let it pass, get the answers you want.
    If you must choose between two evils, choose the one that you've never tried before.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar. 6, 2009
    Posts
    9,400

    Default TOO MUCH !

    Zu Zu Bailey " IT"S A WONDERFUL LIFE !"



  9. #9
    Join Date
    May. 7, 2009
    Posts
    1,419

    Default

    I agree with the others, you might want to straighten this out BEFORE you head towards the first fence!! Just for the fact of sheer self preservation LOL!!! Good luck, horse people are nuts, especially ones who are pissed off or put out!!!
    Kim
    If you are lucky enough to ride, you are lucky enough.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep. 15, 2008
    Posts
    144

    Default

    does anyone remember good guiness last year? he was a top jumper that was looking to be sold got sent to frank maddens barn to be sold and happened to stop at barney wards on the way. Barney Ward got good guiness and frank got a childrens jumper called kanye. Luckily GG owner stopped at WEF to visit and asked where the he*l is my horse a few months into the attempted sale! They were lucky enough to find the horse showing somewhere else thats to photographers putting pictures online! also if they were to look at the papers and past videos online of GG they should have realized right away its not the same horse!

    so be careful and check it all out!



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb. 17, 2009
    Posts
    1,359

    Default

    You might have a better horse in the stall then intended

    Kidding



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr. 4, 2006
    Location
    An American Living In Ireland
    Posts
    5,671

    Default

    Well, if the horse has a passport he could have a microchip. Obviously passport means foreign bred so he should have a microchip. And quite frankly, if he's a stallion papers are important.

    Look I know nobody cares about breeding if the horse can do a job, but if you were a breeder perhaps you might care. Especially when you have others out of the same mare whom you'd like to sell. And because as a breeder it gives you a great feeling to see that horse doing well.

    When you go to Europe to buy horses you get indepth detail on who they are by and out of (unless in Ireland) for a reason. Because they want to keep breeding good horses. If they simply adopted the "well who cares because he can jump attitude" people wouldn't fly over there to buy horses and it is that simple.

    For all of you who throw papers away or despise a name just spare a thought of the breeder who cared enough to get horse registered so said horse could have papers and who obviously did a good job in breeding a horse that can do a job well. If you hate the name, change it, but make sure horse can be easily identified by his/her breeding and date of birth per papers. Then maybe more Americans can sell their horses to Americans.

    Terri
    COTH, keeping popcorn growers in business for years.

    "I need your grace to remind me to find my own." Snow Patrol-Chasing Cars. This line reminds me why I have horses.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun. 17, 2001
    Location
    down the road from bar.ka
    Posts
    33,897

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Limone View Post
    Barney Ward got good guiness and frank got a childrens jumper called kanye. Luckily GG owner stopped at WEF to visit and asked where the he*l is my horse a few months into the attempted sale!...
    Seems to me like GG would not have been at any USEF show under that particular banner. I'd be livid...but probably would have realized the bills were from the wrong place.

    Hope OPs trainer intended to look at these before hopping on-nothing like thinking it's an up and coming level 8 type and finding out it's a used up Kid jumper known for a dirty stop.

    OPs trainer needs to get on the phone, especially since coggins and passport don't match each other or the horse in that stall. With bad blood between owner and previous trainer??? Stuff can happen.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan. 14, 2005
    Location
    Aiken SC / Fay NC
    Posts
    5,429

    Default

    OP: Please post an update as soon as you find something out!!! OMG!
    FREE TACK/APPAREL ADS: BITS AND BARTER BOARD: http://bitsandbarter.proboards.com/i...ay&thread=5450



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep. 15, 2008
    Posts
    144

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by findeight View Post
    Seems to me like GG would not have been at any USEF show under that particular banner. I'd be livid...but probably would have realized the bills were from the wrong place.
    what do you mean by that? good guiness and kanye were switched it was a big scandal search on here and im sure you will find it.... he owner thought he was covering expenses on his horse and went to see why he had been sold (since he was an amazing horse) and realized it was not his horse after a lot of work they found the horse had been sent to mclain and barneys barn and there they got switched and frank got stuck with a sub par horse for what he was expecting. it happens more often than you would think so becareful



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jul. 31, 2008
    Posts
    854

    Default

    CBoylen:We know it's not the horse that is mixed up, since we KNOW this horse. He showed all the time in the 6 year old YJC classes with the ex-rider.

    All the names are kind of close. Lets call the horse Daniel (The name he shows under). Well the passport says the horses name is Daniel 123, but the color/ gender/ description is off. And the coggins says Danny, but it also says he's a gelding, and quite a bit older.

    Honestly, who knows. Trainer says we wait and see if the customer sticks around for a while, if so just get him a new (correct) passport, that says Daniel.

    Equilibrium: A passport doesn't mean a horse is neccessarily foreign bred, it just means it competes in FEI events. This horse has no brand, and could very well be US-bred, although "his" passport claims he is Swiss.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan. 18, 2004
    Location
    Western WA
    Posts
    890

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CBoylen View Post
    I would suggest making sure you have the horse you're supposed to have. Sometimes it's the horses that get mixed up, and not the paperwork. You may want to be sure of that before you aim it at any jumps.
    Our barn got a gray delivered once when it was supposed to be a chesnut. Turns out the chestnut was about 60 miles away, dropped off where the gray was supposed to land. The kid who was waiting for the delievery of her new horse wasn't too happy when the gray stepped off the van at 8pm at night!



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Mar. 14, 2010
    Posts
    419

    Default

    Wow, so the horse could have had no coggins drawn and nobody cares? This sounds like a pretty high-end stable, I think I'd be pissed to know that the BO was letting horses in with fraudulent coggins and not caring. Both because it could be dangerous for my horse, and because I know they wouldn't make the same exception for me. I'm sure this horse doesn't have EIA, but just my thoughts.

    I assume the registration papers are with the owner and there's no question of their validity? Since this is a stallion, I'd be concerned about that, if someone was planning to actually breed him later.

    What a mess. Sorry, no offense meant to you, I know it's not your horse or your problem.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar. 5, 2007
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    1,580

    Default

    Oh I'm sure somebody somewhere would care. Only at most horse shows that require it they will never actually check the horse. The only other place on the east coast is the florida border. I love the guys at the agricultural station there, but we cross at 2 am and they have 15 horses to look at. Most of the time they do peak in but mostly not much more.

    Sending a horse off with "a spare coggins" is not somwthing my current barn would do, but I would from prior experience venture to say it's not totally unheard of.

    We are def more interested in bloodlines in europe, but mixups happen there too. just recently two different young stallions got mixed up. One from a solid dressage back ground was sent to the stallion tests as a jumper prospect and failed, he was then cut! The other one who was the jumper prospect is still intact but spent some time in a dressage barn (or vice versa, not %100 on my memory here).

    I also remember a jumper bred gelding from extremely good bloodlines getting mixed up with a standard bred after their summer turnout together. He subsequently got freeze marked and could never really shake his newfound "trotter" heritage! LOL!


    In the end of the day, it should be fairly easy to figure out if it's a 14 yr old gelding or a 6 yr old stallion in the stall. The most important thing is that the trainer expected whatever horse is there and have a bit of background on that particular horse.

    if there was paperwork mixups or horse mixups they could easily get sorted out in this instance. It would be much harder if the two horses that got mixed up actually resembled each other. In that case bloodtyping would be the only answere unless there was a microchip.
    Timothy, stop lurking



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Apr. 4, 2006
    Location
    An American Living In Ireland
    Posts
    5,671

    Default

    Still, check for that microchip as it was made mandatory in 2004 per EU law, but most breed registries chipped horses before that anyway. Could be an easy starting point.

    Terri
    COTH, keeping popcorn growers in business for years.

    "I need your grace to remind me to find my own." Snow Patrol-Chasing Cars. This line reminds me why I have horses.



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