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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec. 27, 1999
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    Midland, NC, USA
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    7,239

    Default Seattle Jones, '07 Smarty Jones colt, yearling sales price?

    I recently acquired a 3 yo colt named Seattle Jones by Smarty Jones o/o a Seattle Slew mare. He's a good-looking colt. Looking up his records I noticed he sold at the Fasig-Tipton Midlantic 2008 Eastern Fall Yearling Sale for a surprising $3000. I was wondering if anyone on these boards might have been at the sale, taken note of the horse (I would think for his bloodlines alone), and have any ideas why he went so cheap? I don't see anything wrong with him and am wondering if there is a problem lurking that might interfere with his intended future as a jumping horse!

    Thanks!

    Jennifer



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr. 2, 2008
    Posts
    1,628

    Default

    The answer might lie in the lens of an endoscope.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan. 17, 2006
    Posts
    77

    Default

    Your colt is out of the second crop of foals by Smarty Jones, and his sale price shouldn't be surprising, in fact, it's in line with where they are selling.

    In 2009, Smarty Jones had 83 registered yearlings, 44 were offered at public auction, and 40 sold for an average of $24,702, with prices ranging from $1,500 - $90,000. His weanlings averaged $12,086, and his two-year olds averaged $32,714.

    Smarty Jones entered stud in 2005 for $100,000. Five years later, his published stud fee is now $10,000 with seasons trading for much less than that.

    Despite him being very popular as a racehorse, he is not popular as a sire, and has been disappointing. According to the The Blood Horse stallion register, he has had only 3 stakes winners - 2 of them in 2009.

    While I have not seen any of his offspring, Smarty himself is relatively small and had soundness issues..



  4. #4
    Join Date
    May. 30, 2005
    Location
    The Borderline
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    658



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan. 17, 2006
    Posts
    77

    Default

    Just looking at his race charts posted above by Sancudo, I would have to agree with DickHertz's statement.

    I also pulled up his sale page:
    http://www.fasigtipton.com/catalogs/2008/0929/866.pdf

    While there is some classy blacktype in there, it's a bit light, and the dam is not producing much. JMO..



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec. 5, 2002
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    Lexington, KY/Ocala, FL
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    1,006

    Default

    Try calling Candyland Farm as I bet they still have the records on your colt. Candyland is owned by Herb Moelis, one of the founders of Thoroughbred Charities of America, so I bet they'd be helpful. I know your colt's dam, Kew Garden, and they have had her for quite some time now, so should have a lot of info to share. And, I bet they'd enjoy knowing he has a nice home and will be useful.

    I agree with Dick, tho, it was probably a vet issue. Maybe Dick knows the horse as he raced at Penn??? The problem with Startlit's figures is that they are from 2009 yearlings. Your yearling sold in 2008, and at that time, the market hadn't dropped him yet. Smarty's 2008 yearling sales average was $128,961. Kew Garden has a decent page and she threw some good looking foals, so that would be my first guess. Hopefully, Candyland can give you that info. You can reach them at 302-378-7192.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul. 6, 2005
    Posts
    1,140

    Default

    The stock market crashed.

    It was a 3-day sale in 2008 & the stock market took its deepest plunge in history on day #1 of the sale. Which was the day I had 2 yearlings in the sale, which is why I remember so graphically.

    One of ours had a KY sire known for getting runners & under he 2nd dam, a G1 winner who was an Eclipse finalist that year. She didn't bring a bid of more than $5k & we brought her home. The other had a 2007 KY Derby contender under her 2nd dam, a couple of winning siblings - and she didn't get a bid in the ring (but sold a week later to someone who had seen her there.)

    When all the buyers are walking around looking at their Blackberries & saying, "Down another 100 points . . . down another . . ." they're not exactly focusing on the horses for sale.

    The pinhookers needed to sell a horse to have the money to buy a horse & not much was selling (we had buyers at the ring, waiting for their horses to sell to buy one of ours - they didn't sell & so didn't bid).

    Other owners needed to borrow money to buy a horse & those loans weren't happening. Still other owners who were invested in the stock market or real estate were watching their holdings decrease in value & saying, "Maybe next year."

    Could also have been the endoscope or x-rays, but that sale was really the beginning of the 'market correction' that the TB auctions are still undergoing. AND it's not considered a 'good' sale even in a boom year, so only the really top horses had a market.

    We watched lots of people panicking because they had weanlings at home & mares-in-foal & couldn't support them all & couldn't afford to get the yearlings prepped for 2 y.o. sales.

    There were perfectly good horses given away that day. It doesn't surprise me that even a nice colt by a stallion on a bubble year wouldn't bring much. Lots of nice horses by nice stallions didn't.
    Hidden Echo Farm, Carlisle, PA -- home of JC palomino sire Canadian Kid (1990 - 2013) & AQHA sire Lark's Favorite, son of Rugged Lark.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb. 5, 2008
    Location
    Upstate NY
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    2,050

    Default

    Do you have a picture of him?
    I am curious to see what he looks like.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec. 27, 1999
    Location
    Midland, NC, USA
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    Default

    Hmm interesting. Would a yearling really have something show up on endoscope?

    I've seen the figures for Smarty's other foals that year, before they started running :-) and they were getting much higher prices in general so I figured something had to have been up! And the prices on the others at the sale didn't seem to be insanely low.

    Not sure if this will work, but I have a couple pix of him on my facebook page:
    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...&id=1493197238
    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...&id=1493197238

    I'll get in touch with the breeder, thanks! I like knowing where my youngsters go so hopefully they will too!

    Jennifer



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar. 12, 2006
    Location
    Ocala
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    1,228

    Default

    Would a yearling have something show up on an endoscope? Absolutely!!! Its probably the determining factor whether a yearlings is purchased or not. A bad scope, no matter how fancy his pedigree and looks, is an automatic cross off. A little chip here and there is much easier to deal with than a bad scope. Pinhookers run from them.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb. 6, 2010
    Location
    Mid-Atlantic region
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    152

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ThirdCharm View Post
    I recently acquired a 3 yo colt named Seattle Jones by Smarty Jones o/o a Seattle Slew mare. He's a good-looking colt. Looking up his records I noticed he sold at the Fasig-Tipton Midlantic 2008 Eastern Fall Yearling Sale for a surprising $3000. I was wondering if anyone on these boards might have been at the sale, taken note of the horse (I would think for his bloodlines alone), and have any ideas why he went so cheap? I don't see anything wrong with him and am wondering if there is a problem lurking that might interfere with his intended future as a jumping horse!

    Thanks!

    Jennifer
    I'm part of a group that tracks all the Smarties -- and am thrilled that Seattle Jones has a new career. I saw all his races (on TV) and don't think he ever had much interest in being a racehorse. I know for certain he HATED getting dirt in his face. Ironically the one race he won was on a very sloppy track. But there were only 3 others entered, he had the inside gate, and his jockey gunned him into the lead and never let up on him. I'm not sure he ever changed leads -- but he never got any mud in his face either.

    There's a Facebook page for Smarty and his kids (as well as threads on the TBC and FHF boards) -- I know we'd love to hear stories about Seattle and his new career and see any and all photos! You might even find someone who knows more about the horse.

    http://www.facebook.com/#!/smarty.jones?ref=nf



  12. #12
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    Dec. 27, 1999
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    Midland, NC, USA
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    Haha, my old TB stallion was a lousy racehorse because he hated being crowded and getting mud in his face. But he was a fabulous jumper and event horse! Jonesy reminds me a lot of him!

    Jennifer



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun. 3, 2009
    Posts
    138

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Third Glance View Post
    I'm part of a group that tracks all the Smarties -- and am thrilled that Seattle Jones has a new career. I saw all his races (on TV) and don't think he ever had much interest in being a racehorse. I know for certain he HATED getting dirt in his face. Ironically the one race he won was on a very sloppy track. But there were only 3 others entered, he had the inside gate, and his jockey gunned him into the lead and never let up on him. I'm not sure he ever changed leads -- but he never got any mud in his face either.

    There's a Facebook page for Smarty and his kids (as well as threads on the TBC and FHF boards) -- I know we'd love to hear stories about Seattle and his new career and see any and all photos! You might even find someone who knows more about the horse.

    http://www.facebook.com/#!/smarty.jones?ref=nf
    Third Glance, not to rain on your parade, but why not just reflect upon the memories of the great racehorse that Smarty Jones WAS, and stop focusing on his progeny? It's pretty obvious that he has been a complete bust as a sire - the biggest complaint I hear about them is that they do not train on. He retired to stud at a ridiculously overpriced stud fee, has a very weak bottom line - and the bottom line is often what makes or breaks a stallion - and did not have the size or conformation to make up for that bottom-line weakness. Unless you're totally obsessed with this horse, I think that "tracking" all of his progeny is kinda silly. Why not follow a really good young sire - like Birdstone, Tapit or Medaglia d'Oro? I see some of these Smarty's kids threads on different forums and I laugh.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr. 23, 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    973

    Default

    Chances are the price was not due to Smarty at that point but something the buyers just didn't like in a future racehorse: size, conformation, scope, Xray or a bad walk.

    That doesn't mean he won't make a good horse for you but that pedigree didn't just fall through the cracks. He would have been on most people's lists to look at and he clearly bounced himself off their lists to buy for whatever reason. It wasn't just Smarty or the stock market because here's how they sold in 2008:

    http://www.bloodhorse.com/stallion-r...&saleyear=2008

    Anyway, if the problem is not glaringly obvious to you or your trainer, it will probably not interfere with your use of the horse. Enjoy him!



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb. 10, 2006
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    Middle of Nowhere, take a right, FL
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    4,438

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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Hound View Post
    Third Glance, not to rain on your parade, but why not just reflect upon the memories of the great racehorse that Smarty Jones WAS, and stop focusing on his progeny? It's pretty obvious that he has been a complete bust as a sire - the biggest complaint I hear about them is that they do not train on. He retired to stud at a ridiculously overpriced stud fee, has a very weak bottom line - and the bottom line is often what makes or breaks a stallion - and did not have the size or conformation to make up for that bottom-line weakness. Unless you're totally obsessed with this horse, I think that "tracking" all of his progeny is kinda silly. Why not follow a really good young sire - like Birdstone, Tapit or Medaglia d'Oro? I see some of these Smarty's kids threads on different forums and I laugh.
    But you're going to rain on their parade anyway!

    People follow his progeny because they like HIM not some other stallion.

    duh...
    Every mighty oak was once a nut that stood its ground.

    Proud Closet Canterer! Member Riders with Fibromyalgia clique.



  16. #16
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    Apr. 6, 2006
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    3,023

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    Quote Originally Posted by summerhorse View Post
    But you're going to rain on their parade anyway!

    People follow his progeny because they like HIM not some other stallion.

    duh...
    EXACTLY!!!



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jun. 9, 2005
    Location
    Unionville, PA
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    Yeah, that was one of the more snide and condescending posts I've seen lately.
    Delaware Park Canter Volunteer
    http://www.canterusa.org/



  18. #18
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    Mar. 8, 2004
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    Baltimore, MD
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    Default

    Little Hound, why on earth do you care whom someone roots for? I said it then and still say it now that I wouldn't breed one of my mares to him for free but thats not the same as tracking progeny. God forbid we interest someone in the sport of racing, that would be a crime.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb. 5, 2008
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Posts
    2,050

    Default

    I like him! Thanks for posting the link.

    I saw Smarty in person at Three Chimneys a few yrs ago. I had been a big fan of his when he ran. He looked great.

    Good luck with your Smarty, please let us know how he does.
    I have wanted one by him too...



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug. 5, 2008
    Posts
    35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Hound View Post
    Third Glance, not to rain on your parade, but why not just reflect upon the memories of the great racehorse that Smarty Jones WAS, and stop focusing on his progeny? It's pretty obvious that he has been a complete bust as a sire - the biggest complaint I hear about them is that they do not train on. He retired to stud at a ridiculously overpriced stud fee, has a very weak bottom line - and the bottom line is often what makes or breaks a stallion - and did not have the size or conformation to make up for that bottom-line weakness. Unless you're totally obsessed with this horse, I think that "tracking" all of his progeny is kinda silly. Why not follow a really good young sire - like Birdstone, Tapit or Medaglia d'Oro? I see some of these Smarty's kids threads on different forums and I laugh.
    I figure people can follow whoever they want (it's not like there is a Farmville or Mafia Wars type Facebook app for Smarty Jones followers that is constantly sending you messages you don't care about). You've got to search it out if you want.

    And I wouldn't be so quick to annoint Birdstone as far more worthy of following. He had a great year last year, but it's a what have you done for me lately business and right now on the 2010 Third Crop sire list he is 27th while *Gasp* Smarty Jones is number 7. I'm just saying. If the Birdstone bandwagon is going to keep trucking along there needs to be a 2010 Summer Bird or Mine That Bird in the wings and I'm not seeing one. And it remains to be seen whether or not Summer Bird or Mine That Bird will put on much of an encore peformance this year at four.



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