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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov. 30, 2006
    Location
    Gastonia, NC
    Posts
    296

    Default When newbies have been taken advantage of...

    Do you tell them or just make the best of a bad situation?

    I have a new boarder who has been completely taken for a ride. She is a first time horse owner and bought a pony for her 10 year old daughter. She also bought a house with 5 acres and will soon be taking the new pony to her house soon.

    Pony was part of a pony ride string-she thought this means broke for kids and the seller didn't say anything otherwise. Actually it means you can sit on the pony and he won't buck you off. Pony does not know how to steer with a bridle (actually has never even had one on) he also dosen't know leg aides. He has only been led around with a rider and even that was on one of those pony wheel things because he doesn't even lead that well-constantly wants to put his head down to eat.

    Pony is also underweight, ribby, and wormy (how do you even get a pony ribby???) I have already wormed him and am starting a feed regimen to get him back up to weight.

    Seller dropped off the coggin's yesterday and it is fake. He penciled in 4 over a 1 for the pony's age. Oh yeah, and here is the kicker, the pony is a 3 year old stallion. I did talk her into having the horse gelded even though her husband and who ever recommended this pony to her told her to leave him a stud, so she could make extra money breeding. Pony happens to be a grade "cremello" with a long back, short neck and no muscle tone. Pony IS getting GELDED this morning.

    She paid $600 for this pony another $200 to get him delivered by the seller and now she is paying to have him gelded and get his spring shots. She will have over $1000 in unbroke pony and we all know, in this economy, she could have gotten a very safe back yard kid's pony for this price!

    I am going to try to do the most I can while he is being temporarily boarded at my place but he wil probably only be here for a couple months before she takes him to her new house.

    What should I do? I don't want to discourage her from horse ownership but I don't want anyone to get hurt either


    1 members found this post helpful.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul. 4, 2004
    Location
    E. Washington
    Posts
    786

    Default

    Getting him gelded is the first step. Yes, they have been taken advantage, but it doesn't sound like the pony is mean or dangerous, even as a stud.

    So, let the poor guy recover from gelding and as a 3 yr old, he's the perfect age to restart, even though he was never started to begin with.

    Find a trainer or if you can help them, start him in a round pen and teach him to move forward and on to lunge and probably the most important, how to long line. The ground driving will teach him about the bridle and learn to stop and steer. He is probably more than smart enough to figure it out once he is proficient on the ground, to steer and stop under saddle. The new owners should be taught how to do the above and become more pony savvy.

    This isn't a horrid situation, it could have been much, much worse.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr. 5, 2003
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Posts
    1,257

    Default

    It's not a great situation, but it's really not that bad. The pony is not dangerous-which is the most important thing. Otherwise $1000 may be a cheap lesson in the horse biz.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan. 12, 2007
    Posts
    4,227

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodsperson View Post
    It's not a great situation, but it's really not that bad. The pony is not dangerous-which is the most important thing. Otherwise $1000 may be a cheap lesson in the horse biz.
    I agree
    "If you don't know where you are going, any road will take you there"



  5. #5
    Join Date
    May. 15, 2006
    Location
    Eastern WV Panhandle
    Posts
    1,246

    Default

    It's always fun cleaning up messes created by others, isn't it? BTDT, fortunately it's greatly enhanced my reputation (in my biz, not HR).

    My suggestions, since you didn't mention how much horse background they have:

    First, education of both Mom and daughter. Suggest to them that since the plan is to care for the pony at home, they are welcome to learn the horse-care ropes at your place. Pick a day (or three...) each week for them to help with evening feed & barn chores.

    Second, give them a list of horse-care books for both Mom and daughter to read. I know at that age I read everything about horses I could get my hands on.

    Third, have them agree that since Mr. Pony is basically green/unbroke, any riding should occur only under supervision by a trainer (whether that's you or someone else they select). This is to protect yourself from liability (lay the blame your insurer if they balk).

    Fourth, you didn't state how much riding experience the daughter has. If she has none, encourage lessons for her on a well-broke, BTDT babysitter pony.

    Good luck.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov. 30, 2006
    Location
    Gastonia, NC
    Posts
    296

    Default

    I guess thats while I am so frustrated they have no horse experience what so ever. Nothing against them, this just isn't the pony I would have picked out for them.

    I am just nervous that right now the pony is gentle with experienced handlers. Although he is quite nippy, nothing too bad. I am just worried he may get into some very bad habits with newbie owners.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul. 4, 2004
    Location
    E. Washington
    Posts
    786

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lmabernathy View Post
    I guess thats while I am so frustrated they have no horse experience what so ever. Nothing against them, this just isn't the pony I would have picked out for them.

    I am just nervous that right now the pony is gentle with experienced handlers. Although he is quite nippy, nothing too bad. I am just worried he may get into some very bad habits with newbie owners.
    Tell them its just like obedience training for an unruly puppy or school for children. Vital for their development. The pony is just a kid anyway. They wouldn't let their child pinch or hit other people would they? Same thing.

    Hopefully they will work with a trainer and get pony broke and child trained. Remind them, the initial cost of the pony is just the beginning in horse care 101.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May. 23, 2002
    Location
    Ontario Canada
    Posts
    2,195

    Default

    Can they exchange barn chores for your work getting him set up. I f you can get him started perhaps when they move a local kid would take on free part board in exchange for helping them get the pony trained.

    There are some great pony kids out there looking to ride but with no $$ to spend.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec. 28, 2001
    Location
    over yonder
    Posts
    3,020

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lmabernathy View Post
    I am just worried he may get into some very bad habits with newbie owners.
    Unfortunately, this is a risk with any horse or pony, not just the green ones.
    Auventera Two:Some women would eat their own offspring if they had some dipping sauce.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep. 24, 2008
    Posts
    1,681

    Default

    Tell the seller that when they get their purchase price back, he'll get his falsified Coggins back....preferably BEFORE you go to the Dept of Ag with it.

    Falsifying a Coggins has GOT to be a crime?

    NJR


    1 members found this post helpful.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan. 12, 2007
    Posts
    4,227

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nojacketrequired View Post
    Falsifying a Coggins has GOT to be a crime?

    NJR
    It is a crime.

    But really OP I have bought many things from a farm to a toaster to running shoes without enough information. It's a learning curve and that curve is achieved through experience. Caveat Emptor - right or wrong.

    There is not a whole lot you can do for them except gently but firmly point out what you actually know is for certain. THEY must be the ones to decide if they can live with their mistake or not.

    You can offer assistance but I really feel this is on them you are making it on you.

    And certainly slinging anything true or false on another person is not wise in the small world. To avoid slander you must present the FACTS in a non committal way. Then allow the Newbies to draw THEIR OWN conclusions and take action or not.

    This is not about you. As much as it pisses me off to read what happened to them, this world can bite you in the backside if you make this your deal. Let it be theirs!

    JMHO - been there lived that - passed on the Tee shirt
    "If you don't know where you are going, any road will take you there"



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul. 10, 2008
    Posts
    1,068

    Default

    Lay it on the line - the good and the bad. How can you work with them towards a resolution without them acknowledging the problem?



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr. 4, 2007
    Location
    Jasper, GA
    Posts
    2,148

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodland View Post
    It is a crime.

    But really OP I have bought many things from a farm to a toaster to running shoes without enough information. It's a learning curve and that curve is achieved through experience. Caveat Emptor - right or wrong.

    There is not a whole lot you can do for them except gently but firmly point out what you actually know is for certain. THEY must be the ones to decide if they can live with their mistake or not.

    You can offer assistance but I really feel this is on them you are making it on you.

    And certainly slinging anything true or false on another person is not wise in the small world. To avoid slander you must present the FACTS in a non committal way. Then allow the Newbies to draw THEIR OWN conclusions and take action or not.

    This is not about you. As much as it pisses me off to read what happened to them, this world can bite you in the backside if you make this your deal. Let it be theirs!

    JMHO - been there lived that - passed on the Tee shirt
    I agree, and as much as I sound like a witch for saying it, some people don't want the information.

    I have had a few newbie buyers that just won't hear me. I once told someone "no, this horse seems nice but he was a bully when I got him and is not suitable for a inexperienced girl." They then offered me more money, insisted that the horse just looked sweet and wouldn't hurt them and that I was wrong. I said no again and they literally flounced into their car and drove away, muttering under their breath.

    Some people do get emotionally attached immediately to the first horse they see and you could tell them the horse/pony was a killer monster and they still wouldn't hear you or even want to listen to you!

    B.T.W. You don't need horse experience or any experience to see when a gov doc, like a coggins is faked. It sounds like maybe, just maybe the rose colored glasses are firmly in place.
    Luistano Stallion standing for 2013: Wolverine UVF
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IZPHDzgX3s



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar. 26, 2005
    Location
    Back to Normal.. or as close as I'll ever get
    Posts
    9,891

    Default Um...er...one more Caveat

    Pony is mild-mannered now when you say he is distinctly underweight.

    Add groceries and you may very well end up with a totally different pony.

    IIWM (& my customers) I'd mention this and get them into the mindset that DD may need a new pony if this one turns out to be a handful when in full weight & good health.

    Unless DD is a tough little rider why should she have to go through learning the hard way that all ponies are not of the My Little variety.

    Who is it on here whose sig says:
    "Pony - it's a 4-letter word" ?
    *friend of bar.ka*RIP all my lovely boys, gone too soon:
    Steppin' Out 1988-2004
    Hey Vern! 1982-2009
    Cash's Bay Threat 1994-2009


    1 members found this post helpful.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov. 30, 2006
    Location
    Gastonia, NC
    Posts
    296

    Default

    About the coggins...its another horses coggins. The seller happened to mention he has several white blue eyed ponies being that he is in the pony ride business. Keeping this pony a stud and all I am guessing he just breeds them back to each other. The coggins is from a 1 year old cremello and he took a pencil over the 1 and made it into a 4 ( not exactly high tech, but you do have to be looking for it)

    Guys like that just tick me off, how could you be so callous when selling a horse for a child???

    When the buyers mentioned the pony looked a little thin his reply was, yeah I don't want to keep them too fat over the winter, uh what???



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Apr. 4, 2007
    Location
    Jasper, GA
    Posts
    2,148

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lmabernathy View Post
    About the coggins...its another horses coggins. The seller happened to mention he has several white blue eyed ponies being that he is in the pony ride business. Keeping this pony a stud and all I am guessing he just breeds them back to each other. The coggins is from a 1 year old cremello and he took a pencil over the 1 and made it into a 4 ( not exactly high tech, but you do have to be looking for it)

    Guys like that just tick me off, how could you be so callous when selling a horse for a child???

    When the buyers mentioned the pony looked a little thin his reply was, yeah I don't want to keep them too fat over the winter, uh what???
    Do you live in NW GA? I have a neighbor that could be his twin...

    I do agree with you, it sounds one of those old time kind of A**holes that at some point we all learn to watch out for. Luckily, they are a dying breed (or lets hope anyway).
    Luistano Stallion standing for 2013: Wolverine UVF
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IZPHDzgX3s



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug. 15, 2009
    Posts
    437

    Default

    At least they have you, some newbies end up with a Lemon & bad advice!



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct. 31, 2001
    Location
    West of insanity, east of apathy, deep in the heart of Texas.
    Posts
    15,826

    Cool

    After pony is gelded, DO NOT let them take it home. Both pony and owners will end up injured.

    Do as others have said, and have DD ride a lesson pony while hers is being trained. Yes, they'll probably put up a fuss about having to pay for training, but that's what happens when you go out and buy something you know nothing about, with no professional advice. Looks like your folks bought them some sense.
    In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
    A life lived by example, done too soon.
    www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb. 4, 2009
    Posts
    2,543

    Default

    I'd tell them in a nice non-judgmental way. Hey we've all been beginners at some point and we all make newbie mistakes. Not telling them isn't going to make it any better. Who knows, maybe they'll be open to getting help. If not, well at least you tried.

    As far as the Coggins goes, it's unlawful to falsify or knowingly use a falsified form. Punishable by up to 10K in fines or up to 5 years in jail. So if they know the document is false they're on the hook too. Do they even know what a Coggins test is?


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  20. #20
    Join Date
    Mar. 20, 2005
    Location
    Lexington, KY
    Posts
    840

    Default

    Ok, the pony wasn't the greatest purchase. But they could have done a lot worse...They could have spent $5k for it, and there are other problems worse than being thin and wormy and still a stallion. At least those things can be corrected. If after the gelding and some weight put back on the pony isn't safe for them, you are obligated to tell them that. But there's always a chance the pony will be a diamond in the rough. If he was that gentle as a stallion, he hopefully will be good tempered even with some weight back on.
    Good luck!



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