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  1. #1
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    Default Identifying jumping talent in a young horse?

    At what age can you start to identify jumping talent? My filly was bred to be my next dressage mount, but her sire is an excellent jumper as well (dam, nice form but tops out at 2'9"). The filly is almost 2, and has been free jumped once or twice. She also has been known to jump out of the pasture (3'6" fence at the lowest point). Her dam couldn't make it out of the pasture if her life depended on it.

    I know is not terribly unusual for young horses to jump out of the pasture, but at what age can you start to say a horse has talent for jumping? What do you base that statement on? Free jumping, under saddle work, something else?

    If she ends up topping out at 2'9" like her dam, it is no big deal to me. She was bred to be my dressage mount, not a jumper. But I also wouldn't mind doing some jumping with her if she has the talent for it.



  2. #2
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    Default

    if she's almost 2 a professional who has free jumped hundreds of horses will be able to assess her age-ability for you. however, regardless of who it is, it will only be an indication at her age. you need an experienced eye for this part to be able to recognise if its hard or easy, if she needs different distances etc. her ability could go either way in future from whatever level she displays currently.

    much of jump is inherited (duh) but parts are not and can vary with training. unless she is pinging 5' high, 6' wide oxers already, there are not yet any obvious answers. if all is going well, look again in another 6-12 months with bigger jumps in the chute, and so on, until she starts over fences under saddle. again, to me it takes having her looked at by someone who does this well and all the time.



  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by ne1 View Post
    if she's almost 2 a professional who has free jumped hundreds of horses will be able to assess her age-ability for you. however, regardless of who it is, it will only be an indication at her age. you need an experienced eye for this part to be able to recognise if its hard or easy, if she needs different distances etc. her ability could go either way in future from whatever level she displays currently.

    much of jump is inherited (duh) but parts are not and can vary with training. unless she is pinging 5' high, 6' wide oxers already, there are not yet any obvious answers. if all is going well, look again in another 6-12 months with bigger jumps in the chute, and so on, until she starts over fences under saddle. again, to me it takes having her looked at by someone who does this well and all the time.
    Ditto, well said ne1.
    Ryu Equestrian & Facebook Page
    Breeding Horses Today, for the Equestrian Sport of Tomorrow.
    Osteen & Gainesville, Florida.



  4. #4
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    Default

    That makes a lot of sense, thanks!

    She won't be under saddle for at least another year, as she is still very immature. I'll wait to have her evaluated until a bit further down the line, when she doesn't look so much like a little baby anymore.



  5. #5
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    Default

    Just for education could we get some videos posted of youngsters chute jumping and have people identify what they see?
    At what ages do you start to expect what?



  6. #6
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    Post Here you go....Long Yearling Free Jumping Clip....

    Here you go.....

    This is Catapult SCF (Judgement ISF Crown X Coriano) as a long yearling, Free Jumping for the 2nd time.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHyKT...ayer_embedded#

    Hope this helps....
    Karin
    PS FYI...This is one of the "twins".... He and his "little sister" Charmed SCF are coming three now, and doing great!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Sporting Chance Farm/Dr Carlos and Karin Jimenez
    Breeders of International Quality KWPN Horses
    2006 KWPN-NA Breeders of the Year/2006 Res CH USDF DSHB Breeders Year
    www.sportingchancefarm.com



  7. #7
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hampton Bay View Post
    She was bred to be my dressage mount, not a jumper. But I also wouldn't mind doing some jumping with her if she has the talent for it.
    I'd say, get her Dressage work started, just a good solid flatwork foundation, and then start some jump training. You'll find out then
    ______________________________
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  8. #8
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stoicfish View Post
    Just for education could we get some videos posted of youngsters chute jumping and have people identify what they see?
    At what ages do you start to expect what?
    I am no expert, but I thought I would just share our experience with three of our horses.

    This free jumping video was taken of our 2005 mare Ahsianita.

    Background: we free jumped her as a weanling and found her to have a natural affinity to jumping. She figured it out very quickly and kept going back through. She showed good technique, but at that time we thought that perhaps she'd lack some power.

    After seeing her as an unstarted 3 year old going through the chute. She showed the same catlike technique and carefulness that we saw as a weanling and same mentality to go through as a weanling. However, the observation that she lacked a bit of power to clear the wide oxers held true.

    She was started under saddle 6 months later and so far, our initial observations have held true, although they are much harder to see at the moment because she is jumping quite a bit lower under saddle than we were able to jump her in the chute. But the technique and natural carefulness is still there.

    This greatly helped us choose to breed her to stallions that will add some substance and power, while keeping her technique and good mentality intact.

    This is a Free Jumping Video of our 2005 mare Ana Bella as a 4 year old.

    Background: Again we free jumped her as a weanling, found that she had a good mentality going through the chute and figured it out quickly. Her technique was good, not quite as catlike as her stablemate, but sufficient and that she had more power through her hind end than her sister. We free jumped all the weanlings one after another to give us an easier time to see the differences.

    When the video was taken we saw the same thing as we saw as a weanling- she had sufficient technique, not quite as catlike as her stablemate, but still possessed the power in her hind end that we had seen as a weanling

    She was already started undersaddle when the video was taken and again, the same things have been seen undersaddle- excellent mentality over fences, sufficient technique and more than sufficient power through her hind end.

    Lastly, we had a weanling that when we free jumped showed a tremendous amount of power through her hind end and scope- a real powerhouse, however, she was very difficult to get through the chute and lacked sharpness off the ground and technique. Here is a picture of her free jumping again as a coming 3 year old.

    She was free jumped again as a 3 year old and the same held true- stubborn mentality, extraordinary power, lacked a bit of sharpness off the ground and technique in front. Here's is a picture with her characteristic slighty open front end in a 5 year old class.

    Undersaddle, when she initially was learning how to jump, she was difficult. However, once she learned and got over the inital problem, it never posed a problem again and she took it in stride. She has maintained that same power through her hind end and scope over fences. Her front end technique has been substantially improved through gymnanstics exercises- here is a picture of her as a 6 year old.

    When we breed her, we will breed her to stallions that can offer the blood to give her more sharpness and better technique.

    We have used this routine: free jumping as weanlings and then again as 3 year olds on all of our foundation mares and so far, our initial observations have held true to when we free jumped them again as 3 year olds and then started jumping them under saddle.
    Last edited by RyuEquestrian; Feb. 15, 2010 at 03:43 PM.
    Ryu Equestrian & Facebook Page
    Breeding Horses Today, for the Equestrian Sport of Tomorrow.
    Osteen & Gainesville, Florida.



  9. #9
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    Default

    Karin,
    Thanks for posting.
    I have found many videos on U-tube but was unsure if I should post them, in case the owners would rather not have them used as examples.
    I was hoping that someone with a really good eye (the professional type ne1 was referring to) would tell us what they see.
    It would be beneficial if the critique was critical and well informed.
    Karin, do you have any comments about your boy?


    I find the benefit of using video is of course that you can go to certain stages of the jump and view it several times. When watching scoring live, you seldom get all the details and sometimes you do not get to see what the judges are looking at.

    Thank-you McarverS, that was really good. Do you think by 10 years old, the ones that had the power may be able to learn technique in order to fulfill their potential?



  10. #10
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    Mar. 17, 2006
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stoicfish View Post


    Thank-you McarverS, that was really good. Do you think by 10 years old, the ones that had the power may be able to learn technique in order to fulfill their potential?
    Let me expatiate on what Monica has said. Yes, we believe that technique can and will be improved upon (hopefully before age 10!) with gymnastics and experience. Front end technique is easier to improve than hind end technique. The third mare that Monica mentioned is snapping her front legs up like a champion A circuit Regular Working Hunter after schooling with a top professional and successfully competing in the 6 Yr. old YJC classes. We are looking forward to watching her development because she has been placed in the right hands. Ahsia is on maternity leave right now awaiting the imminent birth of her foal by Willemoes and Ana is starting to compete with another peer.
    Last edited by Sakura Hill Farm; Feb. 15, 2010 at 04:14 PM. Reason: spelling
    Sakura Hill Farm
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    Young and developing horses for A-circuit jumper and hunter rings.



  11. #11
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stoicfish View Post
    Karin,
    Thanks for posting.
    I have found many videos on U-tube but was unsure if I should post them, in case the owners would rather not have them used as examples.
    I was hoping that someone with a really good eye (the professional type ne1 was referring to) would tell us what they see.
    It would be beneficial if the critique was critical and well informed.
    Karin, do you have any comments about your boy?


    I find the benefit of using video is of course that you can go to certain stages of the jump and view it several times. When watching scoring live, you seldom get all the details and sometimes you do not get to see what the judges are looking at.

    Thank-you McarverS, that was really good. Do you think by 10 years old, the ones that had the power may be able to learn technique in order to fulfill their potential?
    Yes, I think that technique can be improved with targeted undersaddle exercises. From the jumper trainers that I have had experiences with, they all say the same thing- Never mess with a horse with a poor hind end technique, front ends can be fixed, but if hind ends are very challenging to fix. The first person I heard this from was Rodney Jenkins to one of his grand prix horses that had a very poor front end technique, but had the carefulness and natural scope to make up for it. While working for Tim Stockdale, he said something very similar regarding his Olympic mount Fresh Direct Corlato, who also had a very unorthodox front end technique, but had other jumping qualities to make up for it.

    Here's a video of Fresh Direct Corlato (Corofino I x Corrado I)
    Ryu Equestrian & Facebook Page
    Breeding Horses Today, for the Equestrian Sport of Tomorrow.
    Osteen & Gainesville, Florida.



  12. #12
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    Mar. 27, 2006
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    well, i have some different vids, but here was one from the late summer..... i pulled this mare out of the field from her foal, still with teeth marks on her teats. she had freejumped 2-3 times previously, always rather well. this was the first time in over a year she had seen the chute...

    to me, this is a talented jumping horse.... her name is vantina.. (contigo m x hamar)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F811YZYcz3M
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMMbMRE8LvI&NR=1

    she has been bought by a gp rider... expect to see her in the hamptons.


    this is another 4yo (orame x contender) vid shot last week....
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mtx0i...eature=channel



  13. #13
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    This has been very informative! I'm glad I decided to post. I almost didn't for fear of being told I had no clue what I was asking about.

    The dam of my filly is slow with her hind end, but has excellent for in the front. I've known that for years because if she hits a fence, it is always with the hinds. Her sire is quite nice behind though, so hopefully this filly inherited his way of snapping his hinds up over the fence.

    Some part of me would LOVE for her to be able to jump somewhat, even if just at a more local level, because sometimes dressage gets a bit boring. That's why I was asking now. I really wish this filly would hurry up and grow up!



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