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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nojacketrequired View Post
    I never realized that somehow Obama, all by himself, caused the recession, all the social ills, lack of employment, health insurance problems and bank failures all by himself on the very first day he became President.

    Wow, you would have thought these problems were ones he had inherited from a person who had created them over the last eight years, but from what I read here, apparently not.

    It's all Obama's fault and why the HELL hasn't he fixed it yet?

    I was so misguided.

    NJR
    Likewise how did Bush create the problem. The dems controlled both the house and the senate while bush was in office. Mr. Change has both houses and the presidency. His party can do anything they want.

    Typical tripe of blame the other guy. LF



  2. #22
    Join Date
    Feb. 2, 2009
    Location
    Boerne, Texas
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    484

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    I think we can start by getting a reality check on politicians' compensation and benefits. Get elected just ONCE to the Congress or the Senate and you have your benefits for life, even if you do a very poor job. They have some of the BEST pension and health benefits, not to mention perks, of anybody (with the possible exception of someone like Bill Gates or some of the mega CEOs out there).

    They sit up in Washington DC and vote on raising taxes on us and propose penalizing those who do not wish to, or cannot afford the health insurance package they want to cram down our throats. Meanwhile they are set for LIFE with far better than these benefits at NO cost to themselves. No wonder they want to make it a career!

    My husband (a pilot) works for a major airline and post 9/11 lost 70% of his pay and 85% of his pension after being with the company almost 25 years! His pension benefits were not protected, even though they were in writing in his contract. Why should these elected officials not be effected if all of the regular taxpayers are having to cut back severely or do without? Meanwhile, thanks to the fact that I also work 50+ hours a week, collectively we are considered "rich" and deserving of being taxed in excess of 60% of our total income, to fund their pet projects and carved in stone (unless enhanced as desired) benefit packages and to extend the "benefits" of those who refuse to work! I have a few "pet projects" of my own I would like to fund with the money I work so hard for!!
    Last edited by tveley; Feb. 15, 2010 at 06:11 PM.
    Tricia Veley-First Flight Farm
    Boerne, Texas
    830-537-4150 phone/830-537-4154 fax
    www.firstflightfarm.com
    FFF Page on Facebook: Become a fan!
    FFF Channel on YouTube: See videos



  3. #23
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    Jan. 17, 2010
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    18

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    I hear you Tricia! Now they are looking at the middle class to raise taxes on, not just the "rich" who make over $250,000. Until they fix Social security and other entitlement programs they will be in deep doo doo. They robbed those programs for so many years that they will never be able to pay it back.



  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jun. 21, 2008
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    1,692

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    Well to be honest, if I had a job where I had to vote and decide what my own benefits, salary and pension would be-I would probably give myself the best possible deal! Maybe they need to give voters the choice to decide what benefits their local politician should get.

    Bush is different. He inherited a surplus economy and when the attacks happened, he had the whole world stand by in solidarity. From that he steered it to the opposite end-that takes some special skills. But look at his history-every business he ran, he pretty much lost money- so couldn't expect anything different. Also Bush had a majority in both houses for almost six years.

    Now having said that, until 2008, it was Bush's responsibility. Obama was elected and his 60 senators and a real big majority in congress. He has no excuse. Now ok he inherited a mess, so I can cut him some slack. But I am getting increasingly frustrated. I think he is a nice guy and his heart is in the right place, but execution leaves much to be desired. Take Bush for example, his policies were not the brightest and yet he was able to ram it through all the time. That is something one needs to appreciate- a very vital skill. Also some of his appointments-larry Summers is not someone you appoint if you wan't to clean up Wall street. Even the whole health fiasco-think of how the health care debate would be if Howard Dean was incharge. Dean did a great job as head of the DNC and yet as soon as Obama came over, he was let go.

    It is easy to blame republicans. Yes they could be stalling for personal gain, because they are bizarre creatures from another planet-whatever your reason-but so what?? As a president it is your job to break that, play some politics of your own , split them-do something. If you are not, then a year and half later you have to stop blaming republicans.

    My business is in the finance world. I am but a fly when compared to the likes of Goldman etc-well not even a fly, a bacteria maybe! The finace industry also has a whole bunch of giant hedge funds registerd offshore that have hundreds of billions and they don't have to play by the rules-there are no rules for them. Some of them would think nothing of bankrupting a country just so they cna make a buck. Now for me to make money and survive, it is upto me to figure out a way through this maze and make it. I can blame the hedge funds and the big banks that are getting hundreds of billions from the fed at practically zero percent and then reinvesting that in the market. But at the end of the day, the only thing that matters, is have I made money or not. What have I done to surmount the odds to be successfull. That doesn't stop me about talking how dirty they are and how unfair it is-but ultimately it is your skill that leads to success-and some luck too.

    That is what I am looking from Obama. Yeah the republicans are being mean and spiteful etc. etc. But what are doing? Are you changing your appointments. Bring in some people who are bold and can stir things up. I think it is good the Democrats lost that seat. Maybe it might light some fire and get them going. Now last year , the stimulus, etc was necessary-the economy was in the brink of collapse and they put a floor underneath it. The spending also reignited the economy-we grew at 2% last quarter and almost 5% the next one. But the situation has changed. We have a long term jobless problem -millions and millions of people who are hard working, talented, sincere and have held downa job for decades and now suddenly are out the door and have very dim proepects just as they are looking to retire in a decade or so. That is the problem and I don't see anyone addressing it.

    Now after the senate losss, I did see some willingness to change in bank rules. yes that will lead to some massive stock market lossess-because the banks that are using hundreds of billions of dolalrs to play the market will have to sell all that and either give it back to the govt or at least use it to make loans out to regular folks. But in the long run, it is probably good. For healthcare, I think when they took away the public option, he lost a big chunk of the base and the bill just descended into some big messy thing which was cobbled together to fit individual senator's objections and voices. he needs to get someone who can kick some ass and make it happen-a majority of the public still wants it done-it is time he needs to get his act together.

    I am encouraged because he does take stock and change course, unlike the prior one who never could admit he made a single mistake. But like they say, the honeymoon is over and now we are looking for the meat and potatoes..



  5. #25
    Join Date
    May. 12, 2000
    Location
    NE TN, USA
    Posts
    6,223

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    I'm with Cody Willard: throw all the bastards out and start over!

    The government spawned this mess with the Community Reinvestment Acts during the Carter and Clinton years, forcing financial institutions into lending money to people who had no chance of paying it back, then by back-stopping these "liar's loans" with our tax dollars. Then they neglected to rein in the derivative trading schemes that were devised to minimize exposure to these toxic assets as some (but not all) financial institutions extended this fallacious policy to borrowers in general.

    There have been plenty of warnings of the impending collapse over the past two decades, but the Polyannas refused to listen. Those that did listen to the warnings and acted accordingly have been nowhere as badly affected as those that didn't.
    “There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.”
    John Adams



  6. #26
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 2004
    Posts
    1,710

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    Bernard Lawrence "Bernie" Madoff has been convicted in the Ponzi scheme. He ripped off billions of dollars with fabricated gains and using the next investor to pay off the old investors. In the end the last guy lost everything when the house of cards fell. Sad story for all the people left holding the bag. It has been described as the biggest Ponzi heist known. To that I beg to differ. I submit that the biggest pozi scheme going is social security sponsored by the federal government. I am paying in to pay off the earlier investors. My kids will get to pay me off. I think it is time to say game up. The party is over tell the investors (that includes me and my wife) that it is all lost. We will all lick our financial wounds and feel bad but at least we won't perpetuate the ponzi scheme onto our kids and grandkids.

    We in the US have a debt that we are paying billions in interest every day. What happens when the interest rises. Oh yea we will create jobs. Guess what that money has to come from somewhere. The idea is we take from the rich, or the greedy corporations. By definition any job that is tied to the feds is a burden on the taxpayer. The only job growth that is real is from the private side. Not one president or congress from FDR on has been able to understand this. Have the feds provide for the military and secure the boarders and let states and local communities take care of the rest. We pay more and more taxes to create more and more federal welfare. It can't go on, we are about to kill the goose that laid the golden egg. The ponzi scheme is up, time to have the trial, cry in our beer, and get busy rebuilding instead of perpetuating the problem. Maybe a little jail time for all the politicians that have played along in the scheme.



  7. #27
    Join Date
    Apr. 11, 2001
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    6,767

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    Quote Originally Posted by sketcher View Post
    If you recall, Bush spent as fast and furious as any democrat.
    That might be the most uniformed political statement I have ever seen on COTH.

    In his first year Obama has raised the deficit as much as GWB did in eight.



  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jun. 20, 2006
    Location
    Ft. Collins, CO
    Posts
    793

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank B View Post
    I'm with Cody Willard: throw all the bastards out and start over!

    The government spawned this mess with the Community Reinvestment Acts during the Carter and Clinton years, forcing financial institutions into lending money to people who had no chance of paying it back, then by back-stopping these "liar's loans" with our tax dollars. Then they neglected to rein in the derivative trading schemes that were devised to minimize exposure to these toxic assets as some (but not all) financial institutions extended this fallacious policy to borrowers in general.

    There have been plenty of warnings of the impending collapse over the past two decades, but the Polyannas refused to listen. Those that did listen to the warnings and acted accordingly have been nowhere as badly affected as those that didn't.
    This is correct. The problem is the left won't admit it and deal with it. Apparently they never learn, or don't want to as it serves their agenda of more and bigger goverment, creating more dependency. The Community Reinvestmant Act is still law !!



  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jun. 20, 2006
    Location
    Ft. Collins, CO
    Posts
    793

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    Quote Originally Posted by LostFarmer View Post
    Bernard Lawrence "Bernie" Madoff has been convicted in the Ponzi scheme. He ripped off billions of dollars with fabricated gains and using the next investor to pay off the old investors. In the end the last guy lost everything when the house of cards fell. Sad story for all the people left holding the bag. It has been described as the biggest Ponzi heist known. To that I beg to differ. I submit that the biggest pozi scheme going is social security sponsored by the federal government. I am paying in to pay off the earlier investors. My kids will get to pay me off. I think it is time to say game up. The party is over tell the investors (that includes me and my wife) that it is all lost. We will all lick our financial wounds and feel bad but at least we won't perpetuate the ponzi scheme onto our kids and grandkids.

    We in the US have a debt that we are paying billions in interest every day. What happens when the interest rises. Oh yea we will create jobs. Guess what that money has to come from somewhere. The idea is we take from the rich, or the greedy corporations. By definition any job that is tied to the feds is a burden on the taxpayer. The only job growth that is real is from the private side. Not one president or congress from FDR on has been able to understand this. Have the feds provide for the military and secure the boarders and let states and local communities take care of the rest. We pay more and more taxes to create more and more federal welfare. It can't go on, we are about to kill the goose that laid the golden egg. The ponzi scheme is up, time to have the trial, cry in our beer, and get busy rebuilding instead of perpetuating the problem. Maybe a little jail time for all the politicians that have played along in the scheme.

    Brilliant !!

    People don't understand and it is difficult to comprehend the spending of this administration.Obummer has quadrupled the debt in one year !!! We are destroying our childrens future and on the '' road to sefdom''. Read any financial these days and they all say the same thing.



  10. #30
    Join Date
    Oct. 28, 2004
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    2,971

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    The whole mess is inhereted. I personally think both Obama and Bush were/are doing the best they can with what they had to deal with. It can't be fixed in a short amount of time.
    What people need to remember is that the presidents, no matter how good their campaign looks, they are still PEOPLE. They are going to make mistakes. They might not be able to fufill all the things they want to do.
    That's reality. They aren't god.
    To put a person on a pedestal like that is absurd.
    Horsey Stick Art clique
    Crayolaposse~ SparklyLime
    PPP Grand-Poobah



  11. #31
    Join Date
    Jan. 31, 2007
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    509

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    Quote Originally Posted by LostFarmer View Post
    Likewise how did Bush create the problem. The dems controlled both the house and the senate while bush was in office. Mr. Change has both houses and the presidency. His party can do anything they want.
    That is simply not true. Clinton was elected in 1992, and in 1994 the Republicans gained majorities in the house and senate, where they remained the majority until 2006. So from 1994 to 2000, we had a Democratic president but a Republican majority in the house and senate. From 2000 until 2006, Republicans had TOTAL control - Republican president and majorities in the house and senate.

    That means that Republicans basically controlled things for 12 years, from 1994 until 2006.

    The Democrats gained some control in 2006 and still retain a slim majority, but the loss of Ted Kennedy was so crucial since now the majority is not fillibuster-proof.

    Obama's been in office for one year, but of course everything wrong with the world today is all his fault.



  12. #32
    Join Date
    Apr. 19, 2004
    Location
    Williamstown, MA USA
    Posts
    1,206

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    It is not a Democrat/Republican thing that is happening here, but a Progressive one. Progressives have been working the system for the past century, beginning with Teddy Roosevelt. Woodrow Wilson, FDR, Carter, Bush I and II, Clinton and now Obama.

    The mentors of this movement include Marx, Saul Alinsky, the Cloward/Pivens.

    Symptoms are income taxes (progressive), social programs, activist judges, the FED (do you know who founded this? Who controls it?), gradual loss of our Constitutional rights, the PC movement, the corrupt climate change movement, ACORN, control of the press, growth in unions, especially SEIU,the nanny state, etc

    George Soros, among others, is behind the funding of these 'subversive' elements taking over in the US.

    Good Dems, good Reps - those who believe in the Republic but may disagree on issues- need to be supported and promoted.

    Let's get rid of these who are the real ones getting rich, the special interests benefitting from the subjugation of all ordinary Americans.
    Form follows function, or does function follow form?

    www.clearvisionequine.com

    http://clearvisionequine.blogspot.com



  13. #33
    Join Date
    Feb. 2, 2009
    Location
    Boerne, Texas
    Posts
    484

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    I really think that if we "cleaned house" in Washington and established 8 year maxium term limits for the Congress and the Senate, it might help matters somewhat. Why do we need out-of-touch, what's-in-it-for-me career politicians running our country?

    The elected officials would get their health and other benefits while in office, but once out of office (just like in the "real world") the benefits would cease, unless the person chooses to continue the same coverage at their own expense rather than at the taxpayers expense. The elected officials may be more reasonable in what they propose and approve if they know it will effect them as well when they rejoin the real world.

    Pensions would not be an issue either, because who among us gets a "pension" after only working for a company for 8 years or less? Political dynasties would be eliminated and we would get fresh blood, new ideas and maybe even a touch of reality back in our leadership in Washington. Many of those people spend more time giving in to special interest groups with their pet projects trying to stay in office and on the gravy-train than they do trying to fix the mess they have caused.

    Yes, it is THEY in the Congress and the Senate who caused it, NOT Bush, or Clinton, or Obama or any other president by himself. The Congress and the Senate put the paperwork on the desk in front of the president and can even override his veto if he refuses to approve what they want.

    As far as taxes, taxation should be fair, not simply a burden for only the most productive segment of society. As it is, those arbitrarily deemed to be "rich" are unfairly excessively taxed, while the vast majority often pay little or nothing in taxes. At the same time, the "rich" receive no benefits from what they have paid in taxes, but if they work harder to make up for the money they paid out in taxes, they get more taxation to pay for more benefits for those who pay little or nothing. Does this sound fair to you?

    The politicians know this and make ridiculous promises to the masses (who have equal voting power) in order to get voted into office. Once in office, just as we are seeing now, the masses want what they were promised, more benefits without having to pay for those benefits themselves. Their solution to the problem? "Tax the rich some more, let them pay the bill." At some point, there will be no more "rich".

    We (yes I am considered to be "rich" according to Obama) as a small business owner will not be able to afford to continue to pay our employees a decent salary and provide health benefits for them (yes we do this too, without being made to do so by the government!) Why is over 60% taxation considered to be my "FAIR" share? Either a flat 10% with no exceptions or deductions, or even a "consumption" tax where you are taxed on what you spend, not what you make would be more fair.

    If we tax exempted necessary items like food and clothing and medicine, established a one time REASONABLE tax on your primary home and vehicle (multiple vacation homes, designer items and $100+ sneakers and jeans are not considered "necessary") people who make less money will not be hurt as necessary items will be tax exempt and if they do not choose to buy unnecessary "luxury" items they will not pay much in taxes. Those who make more money and choose to buy "unnecessary" items will be taxed on those items. It will be their choice to do so or not. If you choose to save your money and not spend it extravagantly, you will not be penalized by having it taken from both when you make it and again when you spend it as the case is now.

    To those currently on the receiving end of the "benefits" we pay for, if you want more, work harder. Get an education. Think outside the box and do something different than what you have been doing in the past. If you continue to do the same thing, you will probably continue to get the same result. Get off your couch and stop pointing fingers at "the rich" and blaming people like me and my husband who were not born wealthy, saying we should pay even more to provide you with more benefits. We have worked very hard for many years, saved our money and did without many things along the way to get where we are today. We owe you nothing, just as nobody owed us anything.

    When my husband (a commercial airline pilot with over 23 years with the company at the time) lost 70% of his pay and 85% of his pension after 9/11, we certainly were not happy about it but we did not whine and cry and look to others to pay our way. With 1 kid in college, 2 almost there, and a mortgage to pay, we used our savings and I obtained an SBA loan to buy a small business. Our newest vehicle was 10 years old, I now drive a 5 year old car I bought used. I worked very hard for several years, many times for 12+ hours per day (most often by myself, since my husband still worked at his own job with the reduced pay and benefits) to improve and grow it, before we got in the position to be able to hire others to help us continue to grow it.

    We have done well and we are now able to begin enjoying the fruits of our labors (our farm and wonderful horses). Am I just a wee bit resentful that there are those who believe I am not doing or paying my fair share? You bet.
    Last edited by tveley; Feb. 15, 2010 at 12:42 PM.
    Tricia Veley-First Flight Farm
    Boerne, Texas
    830-537-4150 phone/830-537-4154 fax
    www.firstflightfarm.com
    FFF Page on Facebook: Become a fan!
    FFF Channel on YouTube: See videos



  14. #34
    Join Date
    Jun. 20, 2006
    Location
    Ft. Collins, CO
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    ''Obama demanded fiscal austerity this week … at the same time he lifted the cap on US debt from $12.4 trillion to $14.3 trillion. The difference between the two is about what the federal government spent for all of FY1999. It’s half of what Obama proposes to spend in FY2011. Democrats have raised spending by over a trillion dollars a year since taking control of Congress in 2007.
    Which party needs to be told to get serious about fiscal responsibility? ''

    http://hotair.com/archives/2010/02/1...ama-scenarios/



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