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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep. 16, 1999
    Location
    Ohio: Charter Member - COTH Hockey Clique & COTH Buffy Clique
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    9,182

    Default why I hate appraisers - Update: buyer flaking. :(

    We're 2 weeks from closing and I got a call yesterday that there is a problem. the appraiser stated that due to the chicken coop (no chickens) and the short corn crib (used for wood storage, no corn on the property in YEARS), he is listing hte property as a "WORKING farm". And of course we were trying to go through the USDA Rural Development loan program (0% down) and being that they're the US Department of AGRICULTURE it stands to figure that they won't do "working" farms!! How much sense does that make?

    So the loan may be a problem. :-( I've asked my loan officer to go back to the appraiser and ask what he would have said if the corn crib and chicken coop weren't there. I have no problem removing them from the property. Yes we were going to use them but a 10x25 chicken coop shed and a 15' diameter short metal corn crib? Not worth losing the loan over because our alternatives mean coming up with a bunch of $$ for a downpayment.

    :-(

    ETA: buyer is flaking... appraisal may not matter.
    Last edited by tle; Feb. 21, 2010 at 08:32 AM.
    ************
    "Of course it's hard. It's supposed to be hard. It's the Hard that makes it great."

    "Get up... Get out... Get Drunk. Repeat as needed." -- Spike



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov. 16, 2000
    Location
    Concord, NH
    Posts
    5,417

    Default

    That's frustrating, but, if I may be a fly in the ointment, did you want to use it as a working farm? You might in the long run be better off if it is already considered a working farm.

    One example is the defense about smells/noises, um "product" of farms: I don't know about OH but in NH the law is very clear that if a farm has been in existence either prior to the complainers moving nearby or if they have coexisted for a certain number of years (ie, farm does something for 5 years and NOW the neighbors complain) the farm wins. Always.

    If the place is considered a farm now, you won't have to get it considered as such when you actually put your animals there.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep. 6, 1999
    Location
    Snottsdale, AZ
    Posts
    5,330

    Default

    Huh, I thought if it was a working farm, it is supposed to have made money off of some commodity from the farm. Like you can just board horses, you have to sell them. I would think that since it hasn't been used to make or lose money in years, then it's not a working farm. It has to be monetarily proven through tax records that it is a working farm.
    They tried to make our old house a 'rural' house so the mortgage co. wouldn't approve us. Why? Because we had our own well and septic. Nevermind that it was in a subdivision, complete with covenants and everything.
    I would run this up the chain at the mortgage company. We've had a couple of good people and some really really really bad ones. Don't trust that mortgage person.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep. 16, 1999
    Location
    Ohio: Charter Member - COTH Hockey Clique & COTH Buffy Clique
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    9,182

    Default

    It's not the mortgage person saying this... it's the appraiser. And it's not even the mortgage company that's balking... it's the USDA guaranteed loan program based on what the appraiser has concluded. The loan officer (broker) I'm working with is fantastic and really has been trying to fight this for us. he even suggested I talk to some small local banks who might offer a lower % down payment (since that's the issue if we can't get the USDA loan) which means he wouldn't get his commission from the loan. We can't even go FHA if the working farm designation sticks from the appraiser because FHA won't do that either... so we're looking at a 1% or more HIGHer interest rate with 15% down... or the lower rate but 20% down. Unless I can find somewhere else.

    But still hoping we can just take those 2 buildings down and call it good.

    USDA doesn't care what I do with it after I move in... it's just what they want to guarantee under their program at the onset.
    ************
    "Of course it's hard. It's supposed to be hard. It's the Hard that makes it great."

    "Get up... Get out... Get Drunk. Repeat as needed." -- Spike



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr. 10, 2002
    Location
    vancouver, wa
    Posts
    1,009

    Default

    stupid government! offering programs for people with limited resources and then putting some restrictions on those programs! you should show the government how much you hate them by not even bothering with their lame little USDA loan program!



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun. 4, 2002
    Location
    The hollers of WV
    Posts
    16,685

    Default

    I've done a VA loan before and that sounds about as stupid. We failed our first house inspection by the VA inspector (we built) over the lack of door stops.

    Jingles for you to get it worked out.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep. 16, 1999
    Location
    Ohio: Charter Member - COTH Hockey Clique & COTH Buffy Clique
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by class View Post
    stupid government! offering programs for people with limited resources and then putting some restrictions on those programs! you should show the government how much you hate them by not even bothering with their lame little USDA loan program!
    Class, I can't tell if you're serious or being sarcastic.

    If the former, the problem is that without the program, we have to come up with over $20,000 for a downpayment. The issue is the fact that it's NOT a working farm and hasn't been in YEARS. The corn crib is a wood storage shed and the chicken coop is made from recycled screen doors and plywood and also hasn't housed any chickens in a long time. It isn't what he's saying it is and that's where the problem lies.

    If you're being sarcastic... well... I'll take the high road and say no comment.
    ************
    "Of course it's hard. It's supposed to be hard. It's the Hard that makes it great."

    "Get up... Get out... Get Drunk. Repeat as needed." -- Spike



  8. #8
    Join Date
    May. 25, 2008
    Location
    NE of Dallas, TX
    Posts
    422

    Default

    I feel your pain. Appraisers are a pain in the butt and the Govt programs are sometimes more of a pain than they are worth.

    Hang in there, hopefully it will work out. One thing I feel is true is that if it's meant to be, it will work out. If it doesn't then there's something better out there.

    We bought our place thru a land bank but still had to put 15% down. Thank goodness the *Bank of Dad* was able to loan us some of the 15%.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun. 6, 2004
    Location
    A happy place filled with pony and puppy kisses :)
    Posts
    581

    Default

    We had issues selling our home, didnt appraise, and then with the property we were buying not appaising as high as we had hoped.

    It seems that anyone trying to buy now is lucky if they can even get the mortage loan AND a good appraisal!



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug. 15, 2009
    Posts
    437

    Default

    We purchased a house that appraised for $25,000 more than we paid, we are now paying taxes on the higher amount....go figure.

    Good luck in dealing with those creeps.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec. 8, 2008
    Location
    My own little utopia!
    Posts
    890

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by class View Post
    stupid government! offering programs for people with limited resources and then putting some restrictions on those programs! you should show the government how much you hate them by not even bothering with their lame little USDA loan program!
    HAHAHAHA!!!!! I take that as sarcastic and completely agree! OP, it sucks if your deal falls through, but if you want to buy a farm with NO downpayment, I would expect some rules. I do think it strange a USDA program wouldn't include "working" farms but I don't know what the rules really say - only what you've posted. All the homes I've bought I had to have 20% down to get an average interest rate and if the appraisal came up short I had to cover the shortfall myself. If you can figure out a way to get a home with no money down AND actually afford the payments lucky you. If not, welcome to the world.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec. 8, 2005
    Location
    Haymarket VA
    Posts
    417

    Default

    Do you qualify for the Ohio Homebuyer Advantage Program?
    ~Another proud member of the TrakehNERD clique ~



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov. 22, 2003
    Location
    Southern Maryland
    Posts
    1,267

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BestHorses View Post
    I do think it strange a USDA program wouldn't include "working" farms but I don't know what the rules really say - only what you've posted.

    If not, welcome to the world.
    So doing a big of investigation, it appears the purpose of this program:

    http://www.rurdev.usda.gov/rhs/common/indiv_intro.htm

    USDA provides homeownership opportunities to rural Americans, as well as programs for home renovation and repair.
    USDA is not wanting to buy you a farm, they want to provide you a house. Does this property have some land, and other outbuildings (barn?) which make this property too much like a working farm?

    Got to say though, it's a tough market/mortgage market out there after the meltdown. Got to live by the rules now.
    Experience is what you get, when you didn't get what you wanted.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep. 16, 1999
    Location
    Ohio: Charter Member - COTH Hockey Clique & COTH Buffy Clique
    Posts
    9,182

    Default

    Blaster... yes this place has land... almost 18 acres. "Working farm" indicates "income producing" according to my agent... and this farm is not. Yes there are outbuildings but the only ones of issue are the chicken coop and the corn crib. See pics below:

    http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/781834846_yqLRf-M.jpg -- corn crib is the round metal structure on the left

    http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/781842129_t8bbD-M.jpg -- chicken coop is the shed on the left.

    the property otherwise qualifies for the program as we already checked. I have no problem with the rules as was stated... just didn't expect this one because it isn't making sense. Sorry if you don't agree.

    Things are still in the works... hopefully something will pan out.

    lilypondlane... thanks for the idea. I don't know but I'll have to look into it.
    ************
    "Of course it's hard. It's supposed to be hard. It's the Hard that makes it great."

    "Get up... Get out... Get Drunk. Repeat as needed." -- Spike



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov. 2, 2001
    Location
    In Jingle Town
    Posts
    35,571

    Default

    bwahahahahahahaha, income producing?! In what millenium?!!!

    That is no more than a hobby hen house, or a toy corn crib....
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.
    GNU Terry Prachett



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jul. 10, 2006
    Location
    Far far away
    Posts
    2,060

    Default

    Do you think the appraiser made a mistake?

    If it is a working farm the projected taxes for your land should be significantly less than they would be if it's classified as a home/rec land.

    If you buy it as a working farm I bet the local tax appraiser is going to want it reclassified after you buy it.

    I'd definitely appeal this and also ask very specific questions about how local and federal taxes will be determined once you own the land.

    I suspect they'll try to deny the loan, and if you buy it anyway, reclassify it after you buy it so they can assign the highest taxes possible.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Apr. 28, 2004
    Location
    Saratoga Springs, NY
    Posts
    4,835

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cajunbelle View Post
    We purchased a house that appraised for $25,000 more than we paid, we are now paying taxes on the higher amount....go figure.

    Good luck in dealing with those creeps.

    if it makes you feel any better, CB, my house is appraised for $50,000 more than what i paid for it. and yes, paying on the higher amount, too. wait till you see the place, you'll chuckle.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Apr. 16, 2006
    Posts
    329

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tle View Post
    The issue is the fact that it's NOT a working farm and hasn't been in YEARS. The corn crib is a wood storage shed and the chicken coop is made from recycled screen doors and plywood and also hasn't housed any chickens in a long time. It isn't what he's saying it is and that's where the problem lies.
    So the problem really isn't the government, it's with your appraiser. Talk to the appraiser or try to get another appraisal. You may need the sellers help in getting some documentation that no income has ever been produced off the property.

    Frankly, if I were you, I would be very thankful that this USDA government program is even there to help you buy a property with no down payment.

    And by the way, while USDA does do agriculture, they also do many programs to help lower income rural residents. The loan program you are using is a residential loan program. If you are indeed looking at a working farm, of course it wouldn't apply. Commercial is a whole different thing, and it is different in conventional mortgage markets as well.
    Last edited by elctrnc; Feb. 14, 2010 at 03:15 PM.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Nov. 22, 2003
    Location
    Southern Maryland
    Posts
    1,267

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tle View Post
    Blaster... yes this place has land... almost 18 acres. "Working farm" indicates "income producing" according to my agent... and this farm is not.

    the property otherwise qualifies for the program as we already checked. I have no problem with the rules as was stated... just didn't expect this one because it isn't making sense. Sorry if you don't agree.
    Clearly, this is not about "me" agreeing or not. However, this is not free money, it is a FEDERAL program. As a taxpayer, I would like to see the mission of the Section 502 loans achieve the goal of "helping low-income individuals or households purchase homes in rural areas". Yes, I would like to see people living in homes that they own.

    However, if you really need a 0% down and the property is 18 acres maybe it is a bridge too far. It does appear that the other caveat to the program is:

    Under the Section 502 program, housing must be modest in size, design, and cost.
    Experience is what you get, when you didn't get what you wanted.



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Dec. 8, 2005
    Location
    Haymarket VA
    Posts
    417

    Default

    The assessed value (the basis on which you are paying real estate taxes) is not the same as the appraised value which is supposedly the market value. In our area, tax assesments have been completely out of whack for the past four years.
    ~Another proud member of the TrakehNERD clique ~



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