The Chronicle of the Horse
MagazineNewsHorse SportsHorse CareCOTH StoreVoicesThe Chronicle UntackedDirectoriesMarketplaceDates & Results
 
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 33
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec. 18, 2009
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    132

    Default Need some advice. Sticky situation with the stables I manage

    I started my barn in December. I leased the barn with full access to the facilities for $800 a month. When we opened and had boarders come in, they upped our rent to $1500 a month - $700 more than what we had agreed on. So now, to be able to operate even though we're full (11 stalls, 7 of which are boarders, I think only two of which pay full board, the others are discounted), we still have to pay into it. Which is fine. The money we get from the boarders barely covers the rent and hay.

    Here's the convoluted part. We lease through some caretakers that looked after the property (it's a foreclosed breeding facility) for the corporation that owns it now. Clear as mud? Well, the caretakers have another barn that they were going to board out of as well. Except, our barn filled up day 1. It's been over a month and they keep having people come look, but leave and never to be heard of again. Meanwhile we have a waiting list already. Even though it's basically the exact same place. We have talked to a couple of people almost got them into the barn across the pathway from us, but as soon as they meet the caretakers, they disappear. Because the caretakers are those kinds of beginner horse owners that know everything there is to know about horses and horse business. Right? LOL yuh ok.

    We have an indoor arena. Well since they couldn't get any boarders they're "renting" out the indoor for $10 an hour to whoever will pay for it. $50 if they want it private. Well, last night there was a conflict in scheduling, one of our boarders had an instructor coming in for their daughter and the caretakers had rented out the indoor. No worries, our boarder rescheduled.

    But then the caretakers got into an argument with our boarders and said that if they want the arena they have to pay the $50 for the use. I was flabbergasted!!! They pay $600 a month for their two horses to be here, and that is supposed to cover them being able to use the arena when they want. And they weren't even wanting the arena for their private use, just were concerned because their horse is green and they needed some space.

    Ugh it's just a big mess. There's more but I can barely think straight. Every other week the caretakers are wanting more money from us. The bank/corporation is only getting a certain amount of it. it's like they're upset because they can't get boarders and they're doing whatever they can to get money, at the risk of us losing boarders - their MAIN INCOME!!

    I just don't know what to do. I almost want to put together a proposal to take over the whole property (70 odd stalls) and have them pushed back to being solely caretakers of the property (lawn mowing, maintenance etc) and going to the corporation, explaining the situation, that these people are giving their property a bad name (because it has already spread far and wide "If you need board go to Serendipity, stay far away from that psychotic lady with "Bla Bla")
    and showing them exactly how we can make their property thrive.

    But then that could backfire you know? Big time. And in the meantime, I'm trying to keep my co-manager happy who is beyond stressed about all this, as well as keep all our boarders happy and trying to keep the caretakers happy.

    At the moment, I can't keep anyone happy. I feel like I'm scrambling to hold everything together and nothing is working!!!

    I'm exhausted. This was my baby, my plan, I brought on my co-manager because she was miserable at the barn she was boarding at. I do all the work, all the labor, deal with the boarders. My husband isn't very supportive, he's continually predicting failure for me. I want to scream!

    I'm in no financial position to purchase the property, they want $900K for the property (84 acres with stocked pond, racetrack, 74 stalls, 3 barns, 90x120 indoor, hotwalker, outdoor arena, 6 turnouts plus three larger pasture turnouts).

    If you read this far you deserve the chocolate with chocolate chip cookies I'm baking right now. I'll even box them and send them to you.

    If you read all of this.. thanks.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov. 4, 2003
    Location
    Dallas, Georgia
    Posts
    16,921

    Default

    You enjoy the cookies my dear....I recommend ice cold organic milk for dunking.

    While this may be a "dream" for you, you know it's turning into a nightmare. No one has a bottomless bank account and no one has a bottomless spirit. If this continues, you will bankrupt both.

    So it's time to gently but firmly answer yourself: In light of eternity, does this place matter that much? Is it worth bankrupting your bank account, marriage and very self? Is it worth giving ulcers to your co-manager?

    If you can't say a firm YES to each one of those, then it's time to find a new place to lease and let this go. It stinks...no two which ways about it...BUT the property isn't yours. No matter how you "complain" to the true owners, no matter how much you firmly believe you're in the right (and, in my opinion, you certainly are), the bottom line is that THEY are the caretakers and it's who the Corporation picked/hired/trusted.

    Hmmm, maybe pass me one cookie. We'll dunk together.
    <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb. 16, 2003
    Location
    MI USA
    Posts
    7,652

    Default

    What does your rental agreement say? You should not have had to pay the $700 when they upped rent from original $800. Your rental papers should SPELL OUT EVERYTHING, including use of the arena. You said full use of the facilities! That means scheduling is under YOUR control.

    Sure hope you don't have an "agreement" with no paperwork!!! Contracts protect you and the landlord or his representative, make everything clear for a good working relationship.

    Without knowing your contract wording if you have one, not much we can do to help you in this situation.

    You have already caved to their demands, so precedent has been set. They demand, you give. Sure not going to end, without you getting a backbone and written protection with your contract. Sounds like they will be putting you out of business shortly. You will finally not be able to meet the demands, increased expenses, stress, customers will not put up with continued rescheduling cutting into their time and general unhappy tone of the facility. In spite of good care, they will leave.



  4. #4
    Jumping_the_moon is offline Working Hunter Premium Member
    Original Poster
    Join Date
    Dec. 18, 2009
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    132

    Default

    Unfortunately we had verbally agreed on the $800, then the day we accepted boarders, they had us sign the contract that had the $1500. So that was a huge faux pas on our behalf.

    It is, however, in our contract to have full use of the facility. We've been trying to pussy foot around and be nice to everyone but quite honestly I'm fed up.

    In our contract, they're to receive the $1500, and no further money. They don't profit from our lessons, or training. The arena issue only came up about two weeks ago when they realised they weren't able to get boarders.

    They have a serious cash flow issue and they keep getting $$$ in their eyes and aren't looking long term. Soon the weather will be better and their indoor rental will fizzle out.

    I agree, I am going to have to dig out my spine and use it.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov. 4, 2003
    Location
    Dallas, Georgia
    Posts
    16,921

    Default

    Yup, use that vertebral column!!

    If you wanna keep this place, then you fight for it. The written page is your greatest and best source of ammunition to the Corporation.

    "With all due respect, we have a signed contract that states blah-blah-blah. We have upheld our portion and expect the same from your caretakers."
    <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr. 9, 2007
    Location
    Manchester, CT
    Posts
    1,116

    Default

    If it were me, I'd start looking for a new place, BUT once I found a suitable new place, before I agreed to take it, I'd go to current bank/corp and make the proposal. If they say no, you leave.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar. 10, 2006
    Location
    Albany NY
    Posts
    5,521

    Default

    I'd get out. Not putting this in writing was a big mistake. That has cost you big time, and you aren't going to get anything going without a written contract. And personally, I wouldn't make it with the caretakers, I would make it with the corporation, so that you are notified when the property sells (caretakers could keep you in the dark to keep getting your money) and you will be dealt with more fairly.

    IF you get a written contract. Otherwise, this is over.
    Airborne? Oh. Yes, he can take a joke. Once. After that, the joke's on you.



  8. #8
    Jumping_the_moon is offline Working Hunter Premium Member
    Original Poster
    Join Date
    Dec. 18, 2009
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    132

    Default

    Honestly, the whole thing would be great, if the caretakers would mind their own business and stop changing up everything all the time. Instead of coming to me - they go to the boarders. The boarders don't have contracts with them, they have contracts with me.

    Lord the list of things that have gone wrong because of the caretakers is huge. Stuff that wouldn't happen in even the most dramatic hunter/jumper barn I've ever been to.

    The caretakers have got it in their head that they don't like a few of the boarders. Our boarders were carefully interviewed and are all professionals, so thank God, board is paid on time, the area is kept in better condition than when we first got there and there is no drama between boarders. At all. In fact, if the caretakers kept to themselves, there would be no drama at all.

    I need more coffee. Maybe some vodka.



  9. #9
    Jumping_the_moon is offline Working Hunter Premium Member
    Original Poster
    Join Date
    Dec. 18, 2009
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    132

    Default

    We do have a written contract. And in that contract there is nothing about then renting out the arena. When we took in boarders, there was no talk of renting out anything. Because they were allegedly going to have boarders too. But they haven't got a single boarder, and therein lies the issue. They're scrambling to get money any way that they can, oblivious to the fact that they're about to lose their main income.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct. 3, 2007
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    5,141

    Default

    Can you go over the caretakers head and approach the bank that now owns the property and employs the caretakers? At this point, I would imagine that the bank wants to derive whatever income it can from the distressed property while it has it up for sale. The fact that the caretakers are interfering with the operations and potentially going to cost the bank a renter (income) will not be taken lightly.

    If this is the type of situation I imagine, the bank is making up a package on the property in order to market it. It is much better to show a property that at least has some income and has the potential for more. Besides, you mentioned that you had made some improvements to your area of the property. This will also make you more favorable in the eyes of the bank.

    I'd cut out the middle man and take your grievances to the top. Hopefully, they will realize they hired the wrong people to look out for the property and will either offer you the position (be prepared with an answer/price) or will bring in someone else.

    Good luck - rapacious idiots are most annoying creatures.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep. 2, 2005
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Posts
    13,472

    Default

    I hope your contract has an out for you if these people scare away all your boarders.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov. 16, 2008
    Posts
    21

    Default

    Have you sat down with the Company that owns the property to discuss purchase options. You may be surprised what they might be willing to do to help you obtain ownership. Sounds like you could make one heck of a good business out of this place. Never hurts to try.



  13. #13
    Jumping_the_moon is offline Working Hunter Premium Member
    Original Poster
    Join Date
    Dec. 18, 2009
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    132

    Default

    The caretakers haven't even been hired to work there. They live in one of the barn's kitchens, I'm fairly certain either rent free or very little rent, in return for doing handiwork, etc around the property.

    I'm putting together my proposal to the bank. They jumped all over the idea of me leasing the property to start with so perhaps they would be more inclined to listen to me.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct. 3, 2007
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    5,141

    Default

    So, basically some Squatters are trying to push you around?! Get that proposal to the bank ASAP and in the meantime put some steel in your spine and push back!

    The bank has probably just been too lazy to get rid of the "caretakers" if they have taken up residence in the kitchen of a barn. In most states it can be pretty hard to get rid of unwanted tenants and so the bank may need a push from you in order to shove them out.



  15. #15
    Jumping_the_moon is offline Working Hunter Premium Member
    Original Poster
    Join Date
    Dec. 18, 2009
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    132

    Default

    Well, there has been some progress. I bunched my kohonas together and approached the caretakers. I told them on no uncertain terms could they approach my boarders and that any information needing to go down to them would go through me from now on.

    I also told them (and showed them a copy of our contract with it highlighted) that the boarders are to be granted access to the facility as agreed. That access is covered by their board. In future they're to put the times the arena is "rented" on the whiteboard in the arena and our barn, and if our boarders have visiting trainers/instructors we'll do the same.

    In the meantime, I'm talking with my bank manager about writing a good proposal to give the corporation that owns the property.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov. 4, 2003
    Location
    Dallas, Georgia
    Posts
    16,921

    Default

    You go girl!
    <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug. 25, 2005
    Location
    Northeast
    Posts
    11,348

    Exclamation

    I think that it is entirely possible that the "caretakers" are taking care of themselves, and that the owners of the property, "the bank", has no idea what the "caretakers" are raking off.

    I would make some quiet inquiries, unless of course, you are comfortable that a purchase can be made in an expedicious manner.
    Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.



  18. #18
    Jumping_the_moon is offline Working Hunter Premium Member
    Original Poster
    Join Date
    Dec. 18, 2009
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    132

    Default

    Very good point.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Aug. 2, 2004
    Location
    Whidbey Is, Wash.
    Posts
    10,236

    Default

    Not to trainwreck...but O-M-G where is this place???? Less than mil for all that?? Hell, I'd buy it, and I'm in no spot to do so. I'd propose to my BF and move there with joint incomes. <dreamy sigh>

    Seriously, try talking to whomever it was you went to about leasing.
    COTH's official mini-donk enabler

    "I am all for reaching out, but in some situations it needs to be done with a rolled up news paper." Alagirl



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Nov. 1, 2008
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    1,063

    Default

    I think you know the answer; either draft a modified contract that protects you and your boarders or get the hell out. Because I can guarantee that your boarders will leave (or are already in the process) if you don't straighten things out ASAP and then you'll have a lease fee and no income.



Similar Threads

  1. Sticky leasing situation - advice wanted
    By Skyedragon in forum Off Course
    Replies: 49
    Last Post: Jan. 2, 2012, 11:57 PM
  2. Sticky situation - Advice please!
    By Honyowner in forum Off Course
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: Oct. 8, 2011, 07:14 PM
  3. Replies: 26
    Last Post: Nov. 11, 2009, 05:36 PM
  4. Sticky Situation...Need Some Advice
    By SunsetFarms in forum Hunter/Jumper
    Replies: 47
    Last Post: Jun. 21, 2009, 11:04 AM
  5. Sticky situation. Advice Needed.
    By ohwhatagreatnewyear in forum Off Course
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: Feb. 28, 2009, 11:18 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •