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  1. #1
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    The title is "Jumpers are just plain better" and the author is Lila LaVigne. She goes basically says that hunters and jumpers should be seperate and not classified as "one" sport ie: Hunter/Jumpers. She, to say the least, rides jumpers and is a big supporter of the sport. In her words at the end..."And you hunter riders who are walking around like trained robots, not knowing why you're going broke and not really having that much fun-get a jumper..."

    Ballsy letter Lila, very ballsy. Everyone is entitle to their opinion but I must say I couldn't help but be a bit offended.

    Anyone else have thoughts on this?

    "Ladies and gentlemen, take my advice. Pull down your pants and slide on the ice." quote from the tv series M*A*S*H
    Visit my farm at www.hiddenrockfarm.com



  2. #2
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    The title is "Jumpers are just plain better" and the author is Lila LaVigne. She goes basically says that hunters and jumpers should be seperate and not classified as "one" sport ie: Hunter/Jumpers. She, to say the least, rides jumpers and is a big supporter of the sport. In her words at the end..."And you hunter riders who are walking around like trained robots, not knowing why you're going broke and not really having that much fun-get a jumper..."

    Ballsy letter Lila, very ballsy. Everyone is entitle to their opinion but I must say I couldn't help but be a bit offended.

    Anyone else have thoughts on this?

    "Ladies and gentlemen, take my advice. Pull down your pants and slide on the ice." quote from the tv series M*A*S*H
    Visit my farm at www.hiddenrockfarm.com



  3. #3
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    Did she get her start in the hunters? Maybe she was getting her tail kicked so bad in the Hunters she switched to Jumpers. That is really a rude letter she wrote.

    I'm sorry, but in order to do jumpers correctly, you have to have a solid Hunter back ground. Margie Goldstein-Engle started in the Hunters and look at her now! How about the very talented (and good looking) Mr. Ward? Peter Wylde? George Morris?(to name a few) Didn't all these fabulous riders start out in the Hunter Ring?

    I think that letter was very closed minded. IMHO I think Hunters prepare you for the jumper ring. If you can do the Hunters and do it properly, then you can do the jumpers. There are NO shortcuts to being a great rider. Would you jump to algebra without learning basic math?

    Hunters are as much fun as jumpers. I like dressing to the nines and getting my horse looking awesome. It makes me feel good that my horse and I are dressed for the party. I also know if I can ride a hunter course correctly then I know I can SAFELY ride a jumper course.

    http://www.dmtc.com/dmtc98/Pedigree/
    Look up your TB's bloodlines

    [This message was edited by Nikkibaby27 on Apr. 12, 2003 at 04:03 PM.]
    "Common sense is so rare nowadays, it should be classified as a super power."-Craig Bear Laubscher



  4. #4
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    Well, I'm not going to comment on the content of the letter so I haven't read it, but Lila is a wonderful rider who has a had a TON of success at the GP and upper level jumpers in the past few years. I believe that her horse was USAE Horse of the Year either last year or the year before for some jumper thing (Can you tell I am not a jumper? LOL http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...on_biggrin.gif :P )

    This isn't a letter from some local, yahoo, backwoods rider. I'm sure she makes a good, pertinent, although somewhat slightly biased point about separating hunters and jumpers.

    ~Sarah~


    ~Disgruntled College Students Clique~Georgia Clique~Junior Clique (Can I please still be a member?? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c.../icon_razz.gif )~ Buckle Bunnies http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...on_biggrin.gif
    ~Disgruntled College Students Clique~Georgia Clique~



  5. #5
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    HERE, HERE!!!!!

    I often equate the Hunters vs. Jumpers with ballet vs. figure skating vs. track and field.
    Figure skating and ballet both require grace, artistry, and coordination, but figure skating requires a bit more sheer athletic strength to do some of those jumps they do.... and then track and feild requires even more sheer athletic force, but you lose the artistry.

    I think many Jumper riders are just totally not interested in the artistic and beauty side of the horse world. Many times the riders are more interested in the speed and "just get over it" mentality that can go hand in hand with Jumper riding. They might be adrenaline junkies, or just not very detailed oriented to begin with.

    WE all know how well and far along that thinking will get them in their sport.....

    Me? I prefer the big Eq classes because they combine the best of everything.
    Thinking and planning, art and beauty, strength and athleticism.
    All the names Nikkibaby mentioned are also stylists as they kick butt going around those big-@$$ jumper courses!

    KD

    Starpoint Equestrian Enterprises

    "Seasons will change, you must move on, follow your dreams!"
    AR Clique Member... and proud of it!
    www.starpointequestrian.com
    \"Seasons will change, you must move on, follow your dreams!\"



  6. #6
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    Well, the Europeans do pretty well in the jumpers sans hunters or equitation. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c.../icon_wink.gif

    That said, I haven't gotten my issue so have not read the letter in it's entirely. But, what was quoted here was more than ballsy - it was downright condescendingly ignorant and rude.

    Oh, and it doesn't matter if she can ride her way out of a paper bag or not, (obviously she can), she must not have any hunter clients, because as many trainers realize - there a lot of wealthy HUNTER riders/owners who pay a LOT of bills.

    "I can justify anything!"
    \"Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire. It is a grand passion. It seizes a person whole and, once it has done so, he will have to accept that his life will be radically changed.\" -- Ralph Waldo E



  7. #7
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    Duffy,

    Lila has amateur status - therefore has no clients.

    Bev



  8. #8
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    Jun. 26, 2000
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    Want more? For those that haven't recieved thier issue yet or don't subscribe, I'd be happy to type out the letter in it's entirety. Forgive any typing mistakes, I'm going to do this fast:

    Dear Sirs,

    Larry Langer, here's why we shoudl seperate hunter.jumper disciplines ("Why We Shoudl Keep the Hunter/Jumper Discipline Together," March 21 p.42)

    When I was 10 years old, I dreamed about my large pony jumping 5 feet in a six-bar competition, but the word "jumper" was never brought up or mentioned to me or any other kid at the barn. I gre up foxhunting in Louisiana and called up a professional while I was in colege. I knew nothing. They sold me a horse, and I showed in the low hunter divisions.

    Eventually, my hunter went crazy with me, so they suggested I show him "jumper". We were horrible, bit it was so much fun. I got another jumper and found the perfect professional. My horses and I went from zero to hero in one year, and I've been jumping for the last 10 years. These horses have won more classes than any horse/rider combination, and I'm bragging and havin fun.

    But I wasted six years of showing hunters, because prfessionals and show managers make all the gravy with hunters. I just looked at the next show schedule, and they offer 288 hunter classes and 42 jumper classes! I'm sorry, but in my opinion, hunters are boring and the only people who watch them are the professionals, their best friends, parents, and political judges.

    And I was married, I'm sure I would be going through an ugly dicorce, bucasey my husband would have gone insane watching that last huner round. My mother never understood why I was wasting my money, and she's a sports fan.

    You couldn't drag her or my boyfriend with a four-wheen-drive truck back to that hunter ring. Sorry, is that a little harsh? Maybe if I had stayed in "that" ring I would be hitch-hiking to horse shows sleeping undera bench and selling my sould to the devil since I had bank account. I'm hardly surviving with two winning jumpers, two stalls and one boyfriend to help. But when we have to wait 2 1/2 hours for seven horses to goin a junior/amateur-owner hunter classic because some professional is giving a clinic to some poor yahoo at the food stand-come on.

    It's the hunters' fault, because we have to sit around and wait for "want-to-be" "special," "non-Thoroughbred", "pre," pre-pre", "baby", "hopeful", "low", and "schooling" classes. (How about a "let me check my bank balance before I show" hunter division?)

    I'm sure that moms, dads, and spouces would be more excited to get to the jumper ring than the hunter ring. But they've been drained financially and are yawning at the hunter ring. Did you know that bowling is on ESPN?

    Our jumper riders should be on TV too-all the time. They should be concentrating on the jumpers not wasting their time and other people's money in the hunter ring.

    When I check the box for USA Equestrian membership, I check "jumper" -there is no other option. I flinch when people say, "So, you're one of those hunter/jumper people?"

    I'm sick of explaining,. But, of course people cho check the hunter box usually check the jumper box too, because they want to stand next to some excitement. Of course, there are more hunter riders because no one starts off as a "jumper".

    What I'm saying is that the professionals are "off course". And you hunter riders who are walking around like trianed robots, not knowing why you're going broke and not really having that much fun-get a jumper, put some Tabasco sauce on your eggs, let your down and sayve your relationships, your bank account and your sanity.

    "Join up," sisters and brothers, and make show jumping what it shoudl be-no wimps allowed.

    Lila LaVigne
    Clinton, Miss.

    So there is Ms. LaVigne's letter. Now, see why I thought that was a bit rude and brash? I don't care what kind of rider you are, how much you've won, or even how you got to where you are now. Can't we just have a mutual respect for eacho other's sport and discipline of riding? I don't care for dressage. But that doesn't mean that I don't respect dressage riders, how precise and tough it is, or what they go through with their training. Dressage may seem "boring" to some, but I respect the sport, riders, and horses because I love horses and the beauty of them in general.

    So, yes, I am offended.

    "Ladies and gentlemen, take my advice. Pull down your pants and slide on the ice." quote from the tv series M*A*S*H
    Visit my farm at www.hiddenrockfarm.com



  9. #9
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    Jun. 15, 2002
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    Now that I have read the letter in its entirety: that was deliberately offensive. No excuses. She was insulting, and meant to be.

    I do not care how well she rides, her 'class' is showing!
    No matter where you go, there you are



  10. #10
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    Sorry Honey,
    But what I have learned on diverse BBs, the Lady hit the proverbial nail on the head, heck, she was kind of nice from what I read http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...icon_smile.gif

    But then I haven't been to a US show ever, nor have I set a foot in a barn, either hunter or Jumper. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...on_redface.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/cu...milies/lol.gif

    Most, even here agree that watching the hunters is as exiting as watching paint dry, plus fashion issues, regarding outfits, horses as well as barn membership, as well as the politics.... http://chronicleforums.com/images/cu...ilies/sigh.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...n_rolleyes.gif

    And you can't argue with the fact that Bowling, Billards and even Fantasy type card games are on ESPN, dog shows have greater exposure than anything horses, racing maybe excluded.... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...n_rolleyes.gif

    Seems like she hit a nerve, but that is just me, standing outside, looking in (with great amazement at times I have to add) http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c.../icon_wink.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...icon_smile.gif
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  11. #11
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    Nov. 18, 2002
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    Um, when did the Europeans stop doing the hunters? Did I blink this morning or something?

    not to be confused with Maggie MAY... guess I shoulda lurked a bit more before registering!!! (sorry!!)
    _______________



  12. #12
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    Jan. 21, 2000
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    For anyone who knows Lila, this letter is HER. There is no other way to describe and it doesn't suprise me one bit that she worte it. Lila is a great person and has a great personality.

    I understand why some people may be offended by the letter, but I am laughing because I can see her saying it.

    ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
    I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it.
    Jack Handy



  13. #13
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    Mar. 30, 2003
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    USA
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    Hmm, I think she has a few OK points. I personally think that riders should learn to be RIDERS before anything else--though this may be because I never showed at all. I would have loved for my riding education to INCLUDE jumpers, though, because it comes across to me as more fun, IMO! However, I didn't like her "no wimps allowed" part, because I am pretty sure that the 3'6-4'3 hunters are NOT wimpy at all! Maybe I'm wrong though. There definitely are points that seem deliberately offensive (alleging that hunters causes relationship problems).



  14. #14
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    YEEEEEEHaw! That large pony of Lila's (Tweedledee, I think it was) kicked me in the a$* -- literally -- when I was 8 or 9. I had a perfect hoofprint on my back pocket. Actually, in terms of riding upbringing, I see her point. There wasn't alot of "serious jumper training" going on in glorious Shreveport in those days. I'd be a much better rider today if I had had that opportunity then . . . .



  15. #15
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    Actually, now that I think about it, I am SURE that my parents would have been more supportive of showing or even owning if they knew WHY I would win or lose in competition. It always bugged my mom that an equitation or hunter class could run three times exactly the same and be placed three different ways. I think if I had been pointed towards jumpers they would have seen showing as a real sport competition, like a soccer game or a track event. Just a thought.



  16. #16
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    Quote from the letter Lia wrote:

    "Maybe if I had stayed in "that" ring I would be hitch-hiking to horse shows sleeping under a bench and selling my soul to the devil since I had bank account. I'm hardly surviving with two winning jumpers, two stalls and one boyfriend to help."

    Honey that's what a COLLEGE EDUCATION is for. I'm sorry, but my Father told me if I was to horseshow and afford it, I would have to get a Education and not rely on any MAN to pay for it.

    Quit complaining! I haven't shown in years yet you show every week on awesome horses. GET OVER YOURSELF and be happy your boyfriend puts up with your negativity.
    http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...s/icon_mad.gif

    http://www.dmtc.com/dmtc98/Pedigree/
    Look up your TB's bloodlines

    "Common sense is so rare nowadays, it should be classified as a super power."-Craig Bear Laubscher



  17. #17
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    Well, I think she is right - and, though I don't know her, I can imagine a brassy Southern belle saying just what she did - makes me laugh!

    I, too, believe the Hunters and Jumpers should be separate - for all the reasons I posted eons ago on one of the NGB threads. Starting with the fact that the Jumpers are an FEI (and Internationlly recognized in general!) discipline, and the Hunters are not.


    By the way, Maggie Mae, there really ARE NO hunters in Europe - except classes created to sell horses to Americans. Ireland tried to do an "American style hunter class" for selling horses at Dublin Horse Show, and everyone HATED it. It was removed from the Prize List last year. They do have Working Hunter over Fences at some shows here - ONE class, usually at 1m or 1.10 (3'3" for small horses, 3'6"+ for the rest). However, this class is also judged on the Line, on the flat, AND the Judges RIDE all the horses. (As they do in the Hunter classes on the flat.) This is also the way they are run in England. Those Hunter (under saddle) and Hack classes (judged differently, actually) are relatively popular in the UK, and are generally divided by size and type of horse.

    Anyway, I have said it before, and I will say it again, the HUGE number of hunter classes lower than 3'0 is an anathema to me. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...s/icon_mad.gif I think it is an insult to the horses, riders, and trainers. Yes, there is a need for one or two of those divisions - but they are self-perpetuating and not encouraging riders (especially young riders) to move UP! (Adults ARE a different story, I will admit...)

    (flame suit on http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c.../icon_wink.gif )

    It's OUT! Linda Allen's 101 Exercises for Jumping co-authored by MOI!!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...on_biggrin.gif
    co-author of 101 Jumping Exercises & The Rider's Fitness Program; Soon to come: Dead Ringer - a tale of equine mystery and intrique! Former Moderator!



  18. #18
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nikkibaby27:
    Quote from the letter Lia wrote:

    "Maybe if I had stayed in "that" ring I would be hitch-hiking to horse shows sleeping under a bench and selling my soul to the devil since I had bank account. I'm hardly surviving with two winning jumpers, two stalls and one boyfriend to help."

    Honey that's what a COLLEGE EDUCATION is for. I'm sorry, but my Father told me if I was to horseshow and afford it, I would have to get a Education and not rely on any MAN to pay for it.

    Quit complaining! I haven't shown in years yet you show every week on awesome horses. GET OVER YOURSELF and be happy your boyfriend puts up with your negativity.
    http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...s/icon_mad.gif

    http://www.dmtc.com/dmtc98/Pedigree/
    Look up your TB's bloodlines

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    http://chronicleforums.com/images/cu...milies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/cu...milies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/cu...milies/lol.gif




  19. #19
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    LOL, I think Lila made some excellent points! I also shudder when I get called a "hunter/jumper", or I ask someone what they do and they say,"Oh, I show in hunter/jumpers."

    What the &*^! is a hunter/jumper??? You do two outside lines all soft and loopy set on the perfect 12' stride, then set your horse back on his @$$, get him forwards and into the middle of the ring for some slices, turns and adds? There is NO SUCH THING. Both disciplines jump, that's about the only similarity.

    You do NOT have to start in the hunters to be a good jumper rider. Yes Mclain's a gorgeous rider. How would he do in the hunter ring, riding the way he rides most GPs with? You know, almost like a European? Very upright and sitting DOWN in the tack? And how do those poor Europeans keep beating the snot out of us regularly?? Oh yeah, it must be because they're even better at the hunters than we are! LOL, I think not!

    I believe that most (good) jumper riders are just as, if not more, detail oriented as hunter riders are. There's no way they can't be and have a horse who's both fit and adjustable enough to deal with (the bigger) jumper courses. The good jumper riders think and react incredibly fast, and the horses need to be responding ASAP as well.

    I vote for seperation! I have nothing against the hunters, nor am I trying to say that what they do is easier or harder... just that I don't personally like riding or watching the hunters (other than a select few really special ones!)

    I don't think there's anything more beautiful to watch than a smooth as glass round over the big jumps, flawless turns and stepping up to the jumps out of a forward balanced rhythm... those rounds that win and you say,"Wow, they were so smooth, they didn't look that fast." Michael Matz was fantastic at doing that.
    Please don't try to be a voice of reason. It's way more fun to spin things out of control. #BecauseCOTH - showhorsegallery



  20. #20
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    If hunters and jumpers were separated, the jumper division would die: Its the hunters, with all those 2'6" divisions, which support the horse show and create the funds that the jumper people earn.

    Lila MAY have a point (regardless of whether or not she expressed it well) but where does she think that the money she wins comes from?

    It comes from hundreds of horses paying entries and not winning any money back. Instead of castigating them, she ought to be thanking them.

    Methinks she is shooting herself in the foot with her own arguments.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I always live within my means, even if I have to borrow to do it.
    "I used to have money, now I have horses."



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