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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep. 8, 1999
    Posts
    1,992

    Default

    My flame suit is on, but I have to ask the question:

    I trailered a boarder to a local H/J show today. I watched while a trainer schooled about a dozen ponies in the "unjudged warm-up round". She went round and round, over the jumps, beating the ponies if they stopped or ran out. Once they went around completely obediently, she handed them back to the kids.

    When she had finished, a guy did the same thing for HIS kids. Then the spotlessly dressed girls went in, stuck their rearends in the air, and cantered around the courses. The ponies knew where they were going and where to change leads. They had gone over the jumps and schooled all the lines.

    Everyone fussed and clapped for the little girls (and some teenagers). They got tons of ribbons and championship ribbons and trophies. Their parents were so proud. WHAT HAD THEY DONE???

    They didn't braid or groom.
    They didn't school the ponies.
    They didn't really have to RIDE, as the ponies had seen and learned the jumps and lines.
    They didn't even have to STEER or ask for the changes.

    What is the difference between this and the "Little Miss America" pageant? Isn't this just modelling on horseback?

    I'm sorry if I'm offending anyone. I just don't understand the point of this show. My kids grew up doing pony club and eventing and dressage shows, and this is really weird.
    \"I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with someone who is unarmed.\"--Pogo



  2. #2
    Join Date
    May. 17, 2001
    Location
    Santa Barbara
    Posts
    3,134

    Default

    I would suggest doing a search and closing this topic, other people have make claims like this.

    Obviously there are bad apples at every show. Can you honestly say you think that this is how everyone does it. There are poor sports and cheaters in every discipline.

    It is ridiculous for you to generalize like this!

    Are you looking for an explaination or an arguement?

    If you are looking for an explaination...read above or search; if not go make ridiculous antagonistic comments somewhere else. I could throw out plently of comments about the pony clubs I have seen in this area.

    **Courtney**

    I don't want to grow up!!!!!! I am a Toys-R-Us kid. From bikes to trains to video games its the the biggest toy store there is. Oh I don't want to grow up because if I did, then I wouldn't be a Toys-R-Us kid.

    [This message was edited by Court@HJ-OH on Sep. 21, 2003 at 08:45 PM.]



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar. 22, 2000
    Location
    America, The Beautiful!
    Posts
    2,991

    Default

    http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...n_rolleyes.gif

    And the point of Mary in Area 1's post is what?

    To flame of course. http://chronicleforums.com/images/cu...ilies/sigh.gif

    ********
    I'm just the mom.

    Proud Member: Thoroughbred Clique, Danish Warmblood Clique, & Support Your Servicemen Clique



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun. 17, 2001
    Location
    down the road from bar.ka
    Posts
    32,235

    Default

    Does sound a bit trollish.....

    But if it's an honest question???

    Kind of like going to one restaurant and having a lousy meal then claiming all retaurants are bad.

    This poster went to some kind of backyard shindig labeled as a H/J show and saw bad riding and abuse therefore she thinks all H/J shows are the same as that one.

    There is no way to even start to explain if that is what she honestly thinks.

    The Horse World. 2 people, 3 opinions. That's the way it is.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun. 2, 2002
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    6,250

    Default

    The whole way you phrased the question is indicative of a chip on your shoulder about H/J riders and/or shows, or else you are just trolling.

    Perhaps the appropriate response to this question as phrased is along the lines of "nothing. there is no point. we just need a place to wear all our pretty show shirts and to spend some more money. And of course have our trainers ride our horses for us, then hold our hands when we get on them ourselves . . ." http://chronicleforums.com/images/cu...milies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...n_rolleyes.gif
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    http://community.webshots.com/user/madisonav



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan. 11, 2003
    Location
    New Hope, PA,USA
    Posts
    280

    Default

    I am not going to argue w/ Mary, b/c that is exactly what she is looking for. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...n_rolleyes.gif However, I am going to agree with the above comments, that her generalizations are rediculous and insulting. And especially insulting to those of us who are hunter/jumper riders that work very hard to get where we are.

    ~Jessie~
    ~Jessie~



  7. #7
    Join Date
    May. 17, 2001
    Location
    Santa Barbara
    Posts
    3,134

    Default

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Madison:
    The whole way you phrased the question is indicative of a chip on your shoulder about H/J riders and/or shows, or else you are just trolling.

    Perhaps the appropriate response to this question as phrased is along the lines of "nothing. there is no point. we just need a place to wear all our pretty show shirts and to spend some more money. And of course have our trainers ride our horses for us, then hold our hands when we get on them ourselves . . ." http://chronicleforums.com/images/cu...milies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...n_rolleyes.gif
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    http://community.webshots.com/user/m...</BLOCKQUOTE>I agree. Mary, if you want a serious answer I think you should have phrased it much differently. Not just a blantent attack.

    **Courtney**

    I don't want to grow up!!!!!! I am a Toys-R-Us kid. From bikes to trains to video games its the the biggest toy store there is. Oh I don't want to grow up because if I did, then I wouldn't be a Toys-R-Us kid.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun. 21, 2003
    Posts
    190

    Default

    I know what you mean. You see these steady eddies and they go around the course perfectly becuz they have done the same thing for 5 years and going. But, there are some people that do work for there ribbons. Than all the showing is worth it because you earned it and kearned becuz YOU groomed, steered, schooled, and all the other stuff. But, I do know what you mean and I guess I kind of agree. If they can go around a course with out the rider doing ANYTHING than they shouldnt be pinned because they are in a class lower than there ability (if they actually have any.) One girl i knew had this pony that did everything right and perfect, she bought a greener pony and boom, boom, boom... she ALWAYS fell off. I also think that cleaning your own pony & tack is a good thing because it builds responsibility, character, and it builds a better bond between you and the pony. Soo... I do agree but you should go to more shows and you will find out that they arent all like that!

    ~ Chelsea



  9. #9
    Join Date
    May. 17, 2000
    Location
    Where am I and what am I doing in this handbasket?
    Posts
    23,441

    Default

    I'm confused... Do you want to know what the point of a h/j competition is, or do you want to know what the point of a h/j competition for these TWO trainers' students at this ONE show?

    The answer to the former is to get to the other side of X fences safely and quite possibly in style, maybe earn some money/ribbons or points, and to just generally come away with a feeling of utter exhaustion and accomplishment. As to the latter, I haven't a clue.

    Now me personally? I have questions. I went to the grocery store the other day and damned if there wasn't a bad apple sitting right out on top of the pile. What is the point of eating apples if they are all rotten? I mean I grew up eating apples that weren't rotten, so I don't get why people eat rotten apples. Can somebody explain it to me? http://chronicleforums.com/images/cu...milies/lol.gif

    ***************

    Call your village. Their idiot is missing...
    Definition of "Horse": a 4 legged mammal looking for an inconvenient place and expensive way to die. Any day they choose not to execute the Master Plan is just more time to perfect it. Be Very Afraid.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun. 2, 2002
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    6,250



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul. 6, 2000
    Posts
    986

    Default

    Please don't feed the trolls............. http://chronicleforums.com/images/cu...s/winkgrin.gif

    mizzwade
    mizzwade



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep. 7, 2003
    Location
    CO -> CA
    Posts
    295

    Default

    Ya know, I hate to say this but this is starting to get a lot more common. All the adults at my barn talk about their old off the track thoroughbreds, and now there's a lot of kids sitting on push button horses. NOT TO SAY EVERYONE IS LIKE THIS!!! But you know what would be awesome?? A horsemanship challenge at one of the indoors shows. It could take a riding score, a written test score, and then a practicum. They have one at Pony Finals and it's really cool!!
    Lindsay Sceats



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep. 19, 2002
    Location
    recent FL transplant from IL
    Posts
    7,174

    Default

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mizzwade:
    Please don't feed the trolls............. http://chronicleforums.com/images/cu...s/winkgrin.gif

    mizzwade<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Sorry, but I can't help myself. http://chronicleforums.com/images/cu...s/winkgrin.gif

    Way back when good ole' Chris got off the boat, he looked around and said "Golly, what ever should we do on weekends here in this new country?". So he chatted with the Indians & saw what horses they had to offer. Chris decided to have the Queen schelp some of the fine blooded royalty horses over so he could compare & deal. Hence, the first "horse trade" takes place. Now that everybody was mounted up, each weekend there was a gathering of people to show off their horses & abilities. And that is how horse showing started & morphed into the 5 day extravaganzas we now know and love!

    Betcha you missed that part of History 101!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c.../icon_wink.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...on_biggrin.gif
    "I'm not crazy...my mother had me tested"



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr. 25, 2003
    Location
    the lovely bristol VA/TN
    Posts
    711

    Default

    guys, come on, she HAS a point.

    i mean, perhaps not for the adults, but for the little 8 year old kids. what IS the point for a lot of them?
    Do you think they are learning horsemanship, sportsmanship or any of those things by this? no, probably not.

    http://community.webshots.com/user/lskel84



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep. 7, 2003
    Location
    CO -> CA
    Posts
    295

    Default

    Ahh! Totally agree with Schatten02. My mom told me I had to braid if I wanted to horse show at age 9, and I've now braided my pony for Devon and Pony Finals and gotten compliments!

    And when the next group of pros rolls around, whos going to school THEIR horses for them?
    Lindsay
    *Are You Kidding*
    *Giorgio*



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jun. 17, 2001
    Location
    down the road from bar.ka
    Posts
    32,235

    Default

    Well, if the trainer got on and beat the horse/pony over the fences until the kid could get on???
    I don't know what the heck was going on either...or where.

    Certainly a reach to say I saw this here therefore it is the way it is everywhere.

    Let's not get into this one again..please.

    The Horse World. 2 people, 3 opinions. That's the way it is.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar. 22, 2000
    Location
    America, The Beautiful!
    Posts
    2,991

    Default

    And what is the point of people with very little experience in h/j other than some local stuff coming over to state their opinions on a board they don't normally post to, about something one person experienced seeing two trainers at some local schooling show?

    http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...n_rolleyes.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/cu...ilies/sigh.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/cu...ilies/dead.gif

    ********
    I'm just the mom.

    Proud Member: Thoroughbred Clique, Danish Warmblood Clique, & Support Your Servicemen Clique



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Mar. 24, 2003
    Location
    Germantown, TN
    Posts
    136

    Default

    The point to some people is to work hard and to achieve their personal goal. The point to others (like in Mary's example) is to buy nice expensive horses so that the rider doesnt have to do a darn thing so that they can win everything.

    "Life's tough! Wear a helmet!"
    Life\'s tough! Wear a helmet!

    http://community.webshots.com/user/kdj5688



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jul. 9, 2001
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    174

    Default

    http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...n_rolleyes.gif
    Really - what's the point to any horse competition these days...
    What's the point to riding at all.

    Nothing to do with horses or riding is necessary in this country (even if you've chosen to make it your source of income you have to realize this).

    We ride because we like it...

    We get something out of it on a personal level...

    We pick our discipline to fit our personality, our horses abilities, money situation, or just by chance.

    None of them are easy to do well.

    That's all there is to it...



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Sep. 8, 1999
    Posts
    1,992

    Default

    FYI: I am not trolling. I am honestly upset about what I saw today. It wasn't just two trainers. That was the way the whole day went. Not one kid rode a horse/pony that hadn't already been in the ring with a trainer, as far as I can tell. I was really, honestly interested if this was a commonplace occurance at the H/J shows.

    If you are all representatives of your sport, then would you please explain why the trainers are allowed to school the ponies, why the trainers can yell to the kids in the ring during their rounds (and tell them which fence is next???) Is this allowed at rated shows?

    I truly don't understand what that proves that the kids can do.

    DMK is the only one of you who attempted to tell me, and she wrote: the point "is to get to the other side of X fences safely and quite possibly in style, maybe earn some money/ribbons or points, and to just generally come away with a feeling of utter exhaustion and accomplishment."

    But who is responsible for getting to the other side safely if the child is just a passenger? What is the point of "style"? Other than exhaustion, which I can't argue, what have these children "accomplished"?
    \"I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with someone who is unarmed.\"--Pogo



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