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  1. #21
    Join Date
    May. 17, 2001
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    CA
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    He also can't be a Palomino:
    A palomino always does have white mane and tail, his coat is always darker.
    As you can see on the pictures, Modern Art's mane, tail and coat, even his eyelashes do have the same color - they look like apricose-gold.

    So, what else do you think can Modern Art be?
    He's definitely a perlino.
    ________________________________________________
    As the other posters have stated, the colt cannot be a Perlino it would be genetically impossible. When you breed a cremello and a palomino the resulting foal can only be a cremello or a palomino 50/50 chance. I am not sure how you thought otherwise. This colour chart for horses might help explain things for you. Http://www.horsecolor.com/dilutions/...foal_chart.htm
    **The perlino color is the buckskin color with one more cream gene added. The buckskin is a bay horse with one cream gene, and the perlino is a bay horse with two cream genes. Or, you could say it's a buckskin with one more cream gene added. These horses have cream colored body hair and a darker yellow, tan or orange cast to their manes & tails.**
    I have seen many palomino foals born entirely golden looking it is VERY common, some are even born looking chesnut. With a foal coat it is sometimes difficult to judge their true colour. Their mane and tail becomes white as they mature.
    Southern Star Sporthorses
    Breeders of Danish Knabstruppers and unique coloured Thoroughbred Sporthorses.



  2. #22
    Join Date
    Dec. 22, 2002
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    16

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    Mahal,
    congrats to this sweetheart. He is sooooo cute!

    I've to confess I'm a bit confused on Modern Art's color... He really looks like a true perlino - but as other members already wrote: Palomino x Cremello usually produces palomino or cremello.

    Can you please tell me the color of Modern Art's grandsires and granddams? Is there a buckskin or so? I know from other breds that sometimes a foal with a "crazy", unusual color was born.

    For example: Friesian horses. They are always black, but sometimes "red horses" (I think you guys call it "sorrel"?) will be born. They are very rare and very expensive - but it is possible. I also know about a grey (proofed purebred) Friesian gelding.

    Friends of mine are breeding peruvian pasos. Two or three years ago, a buckskin filly was born. The sire was a rare palomino (rare in that bred, at least in Europe) and the dam was a sorrel. The filly has had a golden skin and black mane, tail and legs - a wonderful buckskin.

    That's why I am a bit confused on Modern Art's color and I am looking forward to learn more on the color of his Grandparents and Great-Grandparents.

    Have a great day
    Sonja



  3. #23
    Join Date
    Apr. 2, 2002
    Location
    Germany
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    2,810

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    Sonja the grand parents of Noa and of Mahal have all been Palomino on the sire and on the dam side.

    You cannot change genetics, that is just not possible and if that sorrel mare was really sorrel, then the sire was definitely not the Palomino if the outcome was a buckskin. And a Perlino born does absolutely not look like this colt you might not have seen one, but I had one, so I know how a Perlino looks like. They are born exactly like cremellos with very light ivory coat and aqua blue eyes and they have pink skin, just the mane and tail is a bit of greyish/reddish.

    http://www.gestuet-falkenhorst.de
    Top class and exceptional colored German Warmblood Sporthorses
    Gwendolyn
    http://www.gestuet-falkenhorst.com
    Exceptional colored German WBs, TBs and Arabians



  4. #24
    Join Date
    Dec. 22, 2002
    Location
    Germany
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    16

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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aurum:
    Sonja the grand parents of Noa and of Mahal have all been Palomino on the sire and on the dam side. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Thank you for that info. I didn't know the colors of these horses, that's why I asked for more info.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> You cannot change genetics, that is just not possible and if that sorrel mare was really sorrel, then the sire was definitely not the Palomino if the outcome was a buckskin. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I am not trying to change genetics, all I did is to explain which "crazy colors" I met from other breds.
    A foal doesn't only carry the gens of his sire and his dam but also gens from his grandparents, great-grandparents, and so on.
    If genetic would be that easy, breeding horses would be sooooo simple and all breeder would bred only superior horses.

    To the buckskin: Well, there was definitely no other stallion out there. Maybe flying sperm???

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> And a Perlino born does absolutely not look like this colt you might not have seen one, but I had one, so I know how a Perlino looks like. They are born exactly like cremellos with very light ivory coat and aqua blue eyes and they have pink skin, just the mane and tail is a bit of greyish/reddish. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    All I know about perlinos is what I learned from Quarter horse breeders. Maybe genetics in warmblood sporthorses and Quarter horses is not the same?
    Just kidding...

    Have a great day
    Sonja



  5. #25
    Join Date
    Apr. 2, 2002
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    Germany
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    Color genetics is the very SAME in all breeds and with all horses and a buckskin cannot come out of two diluted chestnuts. Chestnut x Chestnut is always chestnut that is very old knowledge and a Palomino or Cremello are one time or two times diluted chestnuts and nothing else other, so NO a buckskin CAN NEVER come out of such a cross and neither can a Perlino therefore. You can even breed two bays together and get a chestnut, means if you breed two buckskins together you can also get a chestnut, Palomino or Cremello and not only bay, Buckskin or Perlino. If you need more specifics and very easy explained color genetics, then please see the double dilute site at http://www.doubledilute.com it is very good explained there and they have also pictures to see the horses in question. And NO I don't believe in "flying sperm" and I don't think a Warmblood Perlino is born in different color than a Quarter Horse Perlino. BTW you can see a Quarter Horse Perlino at Red Fox Farm http://www.redfoxfarmtx.com - their stallion Starbuck is one.

    Palominos can be born Palomino with white mane and tail, can be born very light cream like Cremellos with same color of mane and tail, can be born apricot like the one of Mahal and can be born almost light chestnut and change to Palomino later. But NEVER ever a Buckskin or Perlino can result if there are only diluted chestnuts involved.

    http://www.gestuet-falkenhorst.de
    Top class and exceptional colored German Warmblood Sporthorses
    Gwendolyn
    http://www.gestuet-falkenhorst.com
    Exceptional colored German WBs, TBs and Arabians



  6. #26
    Join Date
    Sep. 20, 2002
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    Hannover, Germany
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    First congratulations to that nice colored foal.
    Before you all kill each other, maybe Mahal waits a few weaks and posts some pictures later on. I have only experiences with "normal" colored horses, but very very often they change colour latest after they loose the foal coat/fur (?).
    My black colt was greyish right after birth. Last year I had the most beautiful dark bay almost black filly (unfortunately changed to a bay, which can be called dark, but I would say regular bay). I have seen very light chestnuts suddenly turning into liver chestnuts and so on. So maybe you should wait until the foal gets his real coat and than post again.

    There is a very experienced lady on color genetics on the board, I do not know her name, but she posted a lot and she is unbiased, since she does not have any interest what color you foal is. So maybe she can bring light into these different opinions. Without any of you not believing her.

    Please post some new pics or a link in a while, and again congratulations to a helathy foal !

    Alexandra



    I am not responsible for spelling misstacks - just my PC

    http://alexandra-fischer.bei.t-online.de
    I am not responsible for spelling misstacks - just my PC
    www.hannoveranerzuechter.de
    Filly Londontime - Sandro Hit - Rouletto
    http://youtu.be/1O23BeiKpkY



  7. #27
    Join Date
    Aug. 1, 2002
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    Germany
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    Hi Sonja,

    I know Noa`s breed and her parents.
    The father of Noa was a palomino and her mother was a buckskin.


    Mandy
    Home of Atom
    Equus Kinsky Stallion in Palomino Color



  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jun. 4, 2002
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    Suffolk, VA
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    The only possible way that baby could be a perlino is if one of his parents was not a true palomino or cremello with two red genes (chestnut base color). What comes to mind is the silver dilution (taffy) which can mimic chestnut. It's pretty rare though but a silver bay is very often mistaken for a chestnut as the black in the mane can dilute all the way to silver and gray and their legs lighten up to tan or gray. Most people think they are chestnuts until they produce a bay foal when bred to another chestnut which is genetically impossible. Add the cream dilute to the silver dilution and you can get some interesting combinations. An easy way to prove one way or the other what his true color is is to DNA test him for color. They can now tell if he has red or black genes. If he has a red and a black gene, then he most likely is a perlino.

    He is very very cute. I think he's very special even if he turns out to be a palomino instead of a perlino. I wish he were mine. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...icon_smile.gif

    "Dogs look up to you, cats look down on you. Give me a pig. He just looks you in the eye and treats you as an equal" Winston Churchill
    "No hour of life is lost that is spent in the saddle..." Winston Churchill



  9. #29
    Join Date
    Sep. 20, 2002
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    Hannover, Germany
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    I think daydreamers idea is great. I was thinking about testing a mare because I wanted to know whether she will always produce dark horses.
    I was told that e.g. the "Tierärztliche Hochschule Hannover" is doing the genetic test for about 45 Euro. I do not know whether this is true and I have no adress whom to contact. But any large veterinary university should be able give information about that.
    Maybe call the horse department or genetics department and they might help.
    Anyway, nice foal and I would like to see pictures of movement soon !

    Alexandra



    I am not responsible for spelling misstacks - just my PC

    http://alexandra-fischer.bei.t-online.de
    I am not responsible for spelling misstacks - just my PC
    www.hannoveranerzuechter.de
    Filly Londontime - Sandro Hit - Rouletto
    http://youtu.be/1O23BeiKpkY



  10. #30
    Join Date
    Dec. 14, 2002
    Location
    Germany
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    To Norsire
    Your foals are nicely but not to liken with my ***PERLINO*** stallion prospect MODERN ART
    Looks the photo under my posting every excitedly



    MAHAL


    ***Home of Mahal***
    exclusively colored German Warmblood
    horses with world class bloodline
    www.coloredfoals.com



  11. #31
    Join Date
    Dec. 14, 2002
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    Germany
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    to aurum
    It is better for you,
    you life on YOUR own stable. I think you have enough work.


    Sonja the grand parents of Noa and of Mahal have all been Palomino on the sire and on the dam side.


    MAHAL



    ***Home of Mahal***
    exclusively colored German Warmblood
    horses with world class bloodline
    www.coloredfoals.com



  12. #32
    Join Date
    Dec. 14, 2002
    Location
    Germany
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    I give no answer to Alexandra and Palomino Leo.......



    MAHAL


    ***Home of Mahal***
    exclusively colored German Warmblood
    horses with world class bloodline
    www.coloredfoals.com



  13. #33
    Join Date
    Dec. 14, 2002
    Location
    Germany
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    Every Excitedly of more photos.

    Here Noa and baby



    MAHAL
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  14. #34
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    Dec. 14, 2002
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    Germany
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    another photo
    here the eye of the baby



    MAHAL
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  15. #35
    Join Date
    Dec. 14, 2002
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    Germany
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    darker blue pigment pinkish skin



    MAHAL
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  16. #36
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    Dec. 14, 2002
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    Germany
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    another of him



    MAHAL
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  17. #37
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    Dec. 14, 2002
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    Germany
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    Thank you for all people where interested in my rarity German Warmblood foal.


    MAHAL


    ***Home of Mahal***
    exclusively colored German Warmblood
    horses with world class bloodline
    www.coloredfoals.com
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  18. #38
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    May. 2, 2002
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    Picturesque Hillsboro, VA USA
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    Mahal this eyes are not LIGHT AQUA BLUE! They will get darker. His eyes are very dark from your own photos...they are clearly not aqua blue eyes! All palominos are born with pink skin and it will turn black in the next few weeks. You will see he is going to get the black skin in about 1 to 2 weeks. My palominos are all born with pink skin, that is normal for a palomino foal. Have you ever had a palomino foal before this one? He is palomino and genticly can not be a perlino. I'm not quite sure why you are hanging onto this! It is FACT not fiction! I'm sorry you are so determined he is perlino, because in a few weeks you are going to see what we are all telling you is fact. I have nothing personal against you at all and you know that. Please go look at my cremellos eyes on my web site at
    http://www.norsire.com/billionair.html Look at how dark your foals eyes are. Look at how light my cremellos are....a perlino must have the same light aqua blue eyes. Call US Davis in CA or visit their web site and they will tell you this is geneticly IMPOSSIBLE as well!

    Home to the stallions Zillionair, Billionair, Issue of Gold, Gold Card, and Pure White Gold.
    http://www.norsire.com
    Realtor RE/MAX Renaissance, Million Dollar Club



  19. #39
    Join Date
    May. 17, 2001
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    CA
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    MAHAL, Aurum has already posted a picture of what a perlino foal looks like and she should know as she did produce the FIRST. I am not certain why you continue to argue as we have plainly posted sites where you can see what the possibilities of the cross you made are. This has nothing to do with us liking or not liking the foal. We are only stating the facts. Your Kinsky mare is a cremello when crossed with Mahal a registered Palomino you choices are only cremello or palomino for a foal.
    Please PROVE US WRONG and all of colour genetics...post pictures of this colt in a few weeks.
    Southern Star Sporthorses
    Breeders of Danish Knabstruppers and unique coloured Thoroughbred Sporthorses.



  20. #40
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    Jun. 4, 2002
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    Suffolk, VA
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    Better yet, show us the DNA test proving he has a black gene and not two red ones. There is a way to prove it and with this crowd you are going to have to especially given the apparent color of his sire and dam. If they are truly palomino and cremello, than it really is impossible that he'd be a perlino. Foal coat color changes so much until they shed out at about 4 months. My black filly was born dark gray for example. I have no reason, nor do most of us, to lie to you. You need to go out and read how color genetics work and you'll see that we're telling you the truth. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...n_rolleyes.gif

    "Dogs look up to you, cats look down on you. Give me a pig. He just looks you in the eye and treats you as an equal" Winston Churchill
    "No hour of life is lost that is spent in the saddle..." Winston Churchill



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