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  1. #1
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    How does everyone feel about drugging horses? I know that some people dont have a problem with it for relaxation, to get horses used to showing without the drama. Others think it is absolutely horrible. What is your opinion? If you dont think it is a problem then under what circumstances would you think it was ok?

    ~*Miss Emma*~
    -Seventh Heaven
    -Luck Of The Irish
    -Occasionally Blue

    [This message was edited by SCEqQueen on Sep. 03, 2003 at 07:13 PM.]



  2. #2
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    How does everyone feel about drugging horses? I know that some people dont have a problem with it for relaxation, to get horses used to showing without the drama. Others think it is absolutely horrible. What is your opinion? If you dont think it is a problem then under what circumstances would you think it was ok?

    ~*Miss Emma*~
    -Seventh Heaven
    -Luck Of The Irish
    -Occasionally Blue

    [This message was edited by SCEqQueen on Sep. 03, 2003 at 07:13 PM.]



  3. #3
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    Apr. 16, 2003
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    You seem to have a definite opinion on the subject. That's good. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...icon_smile.gif What are specific reasons for your feelings that it is is "horrible"?



  4. #4

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    i am not a huge fan on drugging. i don't think horses that have to live on bute every day to get by should be showing, period. now if we are talking a little bute at the end of the show to make the more horse comfortable, then that is a different story. i know robaxin is a big drug out there now for relaxing horses. i have seen it work wonders, but i don't think it should be used on everyone. for me, it is a case by case decision.

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  5. #5
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    I think it's an unfair edge esp. if your using calming agents.

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  6. #6
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    Jul. 29, 2003
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    Personally, I think it is un-natural...horses in the wild have lived for thousands of years without relaxation pills or drugs of the such. Certain drugs tho, I have to say I feel are completely reasonable, because to see the other side for a moment, horses in the wild aren't ridden daily or kept in boxes with bars. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...icon_smile.gif



  7. #7
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    Jun. 23, 2003
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    I hate drugging under most circumstances. Certain kind of drugs I am fine with - like bute (but not living on it) and some other pain meds.

    I'm not a huge fan of calming drugs but I think some horse's DO need them. I think before you start on any drugs you should always talk to a vet that knows your horse and that you trust. (Trainer's don't always know everything! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c.../icon_wink.gif )

    As to what devildog said - I don't really think it's an unfair edge if the calming meds are needed. Personally I would rather put my horse on calming meds and not be killed by him if he was crazy. (Then again - I wouldn't have that horse either...)

    My old gelding had to be on a small dose of calming meds because he would go crazy in the pasture trying to herd all the other horses (he wasn't gelded late - just a little quirk). He wouldn't eat the grass out there and lost a drastic amount of weight. When we put him on the meds it calmed him down and he started to go out to the pasture and not herd - but eat grass. He put all the weight back on and was fine from that point on.

    So basically I think it just depends on your circumstance. And, personally, I would try everything else before I took to drugs.
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  8. #8
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    Aug. 21, 2003
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    SC
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    I think that there are times and places for everything. I think that if you are at a lower show and need to get your horse around quitely in order for him to get experience and for you to have a confidence boost, then i think that it is ok. But when you get to the upper "b" shows and the "a" shows and all finals, it shouldnt be done. But there also are a few exceptions when the owner didnt know that this would have to be done when they purchased the horse and have to drug them to be able to get any use out of them before they sell them.

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  9. #9
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    Drugs/Medications are only appropriate for the good of the horse, not for the good of the rider, owner, or trainer. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...on_biggrin.gif
    If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket



  10. #10
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    Mar. 4, 2003
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    Fairfield, CT
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    Are we talking about legal or illegal drugs?

    Dana
    Dulcinae
    You can tell a gelding, ask a stallion, but you must discuss it with a mare.

    Fox Ridge Farm
    Dana
    Dulcinae
    You can tell a gelding, ask a stallion, but you must discuss it with a mare.

    Fox Ridge Farm



  11. #11
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    Aug. 17, 2003
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    I do have a definite opinion and actually I dont have a problem with drugging if it is used for a purpose and not to have a quiet, beautiful hunter round on a horse who would do so anyways but may buck or such occasionally. After having a horse experience in which we bought the horse thinking he was a quiet, safe hunter and finding out that he wouldnt go around the ring quietly (ever) I dont have a problem with certain calming drugs such as ACE. However, people who drug their horses just to make them calm and dont believe in riding through minor problems, I believe this is totally wrong! Calming drugs should only be used in a case where the horse absolutely needs them for saftey of themselves and others. As for bute I believe it should be used when neccesary and robaxin I dont have a problem with due to alot of horses I know with sore backs. :-)

    ~*Miss Emma*~
    -Seventh Heaven
    -Luck Of The Irish
    -Occasionally Blue



  12. #12
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    Jun. 10, 2003
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    SC
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    I think drugging horses is very bad for the horse. It can seriously damage the horse let alone leave the rider seriously less confident and hurt. When druggin a horse you altering its thinking and perception. And even if you don't have an accident and only give them a liottle what is the benefit??? Winning? How can you take any pride in winning on a horse that has been chemically altered. It is one thing to give an older horse who has arthritis bute but to tranqualize an animal for your benefit is cruel and unjust.

    Heather Ann



  13. #13
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    Oct. 22, 2001
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    Michigan
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JrHuntrOBlue:
    How does everyone feel about drugging horses? I know that some people dont have a problem with it for relaxation, to get horses used to showing without the drama.
    ~*Miss Emma*~
    -Seventh Heaven
    -Luck Of The Irish
    -Occasionally Blue
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Big difference between giving a horse "drugs", i.e. medication for a specific condition, and giving them drugs to help improve their performance so the rider has an easier time. Performance enhancing or calming drugs are illegal at rated shows, and I think it is completely wrong to use them to try to get that "competitive advantage" or to calm a horse so that they can be handled by the rider.
    Susan



  14. #14
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    recent FL transplant from IL
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JrHuntrOBlue:
    After having a horse experience in which we bought the horse thinking he was a quiet, safe hunter and finding out that he wouldnt go around the ring quietly (ever) I dont have a problem with certain calming drugs such as ACE.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Are you talking of aceing your horse at home or at shows?? Cause at home, I don't care what you do, but at shows I don't believe in "quieting" drugs. I agree with what was said earlier about not being fair. If you want your horse quiet, then come to the show at 5AM & start cantering or lunging it. More power to those people who aren't being lazy. I don't like seeing a trainer/rider/owner walk into the barn area 5 minutes before the show starts & go stall to stall giving everything a shot of ACE cause they didn't come in the morning.

    As for drugging in general, I don't know how comfortable I feel riding something that is drugged. I mean, you just gave a 1,000 pound animal drugs to slow it down & delay it's thinking process, but yet you are going to canter to 3' or higher jumps? As a rider would you want your trainer to inform you if your horse was drugged so you could show that day? Do you think any trainer is really going to inform the rider/owner? I doubt the parent's of a small child would appreciate knowing their little beginner pumpkin was jumping around on a horse that was given 2 ccs of ACE as the "starter" shot that morning before they came to show.
    "I'm not crazy...my mother had me tested"



  15. #15
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    Jun. 12, 2001
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    Chapel Hill, NC
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    I had a friend who referred to ace as "liquid lunge line". At the end of the day, I would rather give a horse a calming agent than run them around in circles for an hour. If you think about it, it is far better for the horse in the long run. Also, not referring to banned substances- there are plenty of legal substances that can help horses's anxiety.



  16. #16
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by THS:
    At the end of the day, I would rather give a horse a calming agent than run them around in circles for an hour. If you think about it, it is far better for the horse in the long run.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I totally agree with that. I don't advocate lunging your horse into the ground, but that's what some people have to do to get the dead quiet hunter look. I think people need to look at their horse & what the horse is telling them. Some horses aren't happy doing what they are doing.

    Last summer my horse showed in hunters to get ring mileage & become more ridable. I lunged or cantered him enough so he was ridable & showing was a productive experience. He will never have the dead quiet hunter look. This summer he did the jumpers & was happy as a clam! Could walk right from his stall to the show ring cause who cared if he shook his head or showed some life for a lead change.
    "I'm not crazy...my mother had me tested"



  17. #17
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
    If you think about it, it is far better for the horse in the long run.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I disagree. What would be better for the horse is to give it more time to settle down, more training, better riding, or perhaps a job more suited to its temperment.

    I don't think giving my horse ace for a quiet round is in his interest (or mine, if I'm riding) just as I don't think giving a little valium to calm my child down is in hers (or mine).

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Also, not referring to banned substances- there are plenty of legal substances that can help horses's anxiety.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Actually, this is incorrect.

    It is against the rules to give any substance for the purpose of changing the horse's temperment. By definition. Look it up. It doesn't even matter if the substance doesn't actually work - if you administered it because you believed it calmed the horse, you have violated the rules.

    Some substances may or may not test positive. But, the USA Eq tests get better quite regularly and what didn't 'test' last month might test this month. Many herbal remedies will indeed give positive test results.
    If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket



  18. #18
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    Feb. 6, 2003
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    JMHO on quieting drugs: If you want a quiet relaxed hunter, then either buy one or train it that way. Pick the right horse for the job, the horse who's personality fits it's rider's chosen career. Many horse might have the abilities for certain careers, but it doesn't mean they have the personality or desire for it. Sometimes people just don't consider each horse individually. Every horse can physically jump things, some horses are very athletic and can jump just about anything, not every horse enjoys jumping. Not every horse with nice flat kneed movement enjoys acting dead quiet all the time. Some will be dead quiet at home, but not in a show hunter ring. Train it by taking it to shows without showing and hanging around until it's calm enough on it's own. Don't drug it. If the horse with lovely hunter movement has a naturally flamboyant attitude, then pick another horse for that dead quiet hunter. Don't force a horse into your chosen discipline, whether it has the ability or not.

    *This was just a weekly test of my humble opinion. This was not an actual lecture. If it had been an actual lecture and was meant as law, then it would have been followed by flaming instructions. Now concluding weekly test.* http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...n_rolleyes.gif

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  19. #19
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    Mar. 5, 2000
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by poltroon:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
    If you think about it, it is far better for the horse in the long run.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I disagree. What would be better for the horse is to give it more time to settle down, more training, better riding, or perhaps a job more suited to its temperment.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    quite honestly, if you need to either lunge the horse to death or drug it just to ride it at a show, then you should have stayed home. it's caled TRAINING and WORK. or sell the horse, find it a new career or a rider who can handle the horse. if it's a young horse, out for mileage, then who cares if it has a perfect round or not? as long as it's a pleasant learning experence, that's all that counts. and you definitely don't need drugs for that.



  20. #20
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    Mar. 21, 2003
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    Langley, BC Canada
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    I have often wondered what would happen if the trainer gave little Susie's pony Ace so that she could show, did not inform the parents and there was an accident where the pony did not react quickly enough, ie it stumbled and went down, and little Susie was hurt. Do you not think that if the parents found out about the Ace that there would be a lawsuit?

    I do not think that horses should get calming agents to show. I also do not beleive in the lunging to death thing either. I think that the judges need to allow 'Baby green' hunters to act like babies, and expect them to act like babies. That means having a look at things, maybe shaking their heads, maybe the lead change won't be perfect but these are young horses. JMHO



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