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  1. #1
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    Sep. 13, 2008
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    Default Losing Another Doctor

    Just got a letter. I have been asked to find another doctor within the next six months.

    My doctor says it has come to his attention that I have no intention of following his orders. That he has a waiting list of ppl waiting to get on his patient load. That keeping me whilst I refuse to abide by his orders is preventing others, who would like to follow orders, from receiving his care. And that just isn't fair. Said there was no problem at all with refilling my pain meds and whatnot until I find another doctor and he would continue filling out my med marijuana forms as well if the new doc couldn't.

    Yah, same as always. They want me to give up and do nothing. Not lift over 4lbs, not ride my horse, no vacuuming or sweeping, no grocery shopping myself. He is livid after finding out that home health has not been coming here to help me nor have they ever, when he has been writing scripts for them to come here for 6 yrs. I don't want them to. AS long as I can still crawl I can get by without them. This really pisses me off. Why can't I decide what I can do.

    I realize that by doing these things anyway I am getting myself into the wheelchair sooner. But shouldn't it be up to me how I want to live my life getting there? I want to be able to say that I had some fun these last yrs of walking and enjoyed life a bit. They want me to not do ANYTHING because they say that will give me maybe even yrs extra of being mobile on my own, or with a cane.

    It should matter that I want to do my own stuff. That I want some quality to my life, that I want that to matter.

    It started by me not thinking and mentioning snow shoveling and chopping ice at a recent visit. It is hard to ALWAYS remember to say what they want to hear. I also don't feel as I should have to do that. Whatever.



  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by WaningMoon View Post
    It started by me not thinking and mentioning snow shoveling and chopping ice at a recent visit. It is hard to ALWAYS remember to say what they want to hear. I also don't feel as I should have to do that. Whatever.
    You are admittedly non-compliant. It would be unethical for any physician to continue your care (including btw prescribing narcotic pain medication and medical marijuana) if you perform activities that they feel are unsafe/detrimental while under their care.

    Bottom line...stop thinking of ways to "say what they want to hear" (ie: lie). And consider following their orders/restrictions set in place that might help you. It may help to look at it from the viewpoint that It is your illness that limits you...instead of your mean, old physician.

    As someone in the health care field, I can tell you that there are not many doctors who "fire" patients. The ones who have done it, in my experience, had the patient's best interest in mind.



  3. #3
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    Jan. 4, 2007
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    TX
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    Default

    Having a doctor is not having someone we want to "fight with" and "outsmart" and "know better than".
    Drs go to school for many years and know more than we even know is out there, even in our own case.
    No, Drs are not all knowing and make mistakes, but in general, any concerns or wishes should be discussed with them and understanding why they want us to do what they tell us to do.

    Not doing what the Dr tells us, on our own, especially in serious health situations, is not showing character or the best place to assert our self determination, unless you have a really terrible Dr and if so, you need to change anyway.

    I would not guess what your Dr's motivation is to let you go as a patient, but I would be sure that doesn't happen with your next Dr.
    Be sure to be open up front about how you feel about medical care and what your goals are.

    You may be surprised how much further you can go cooperating.



  4. #4
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    Default

    I will surely be calling today to speak with them about this. NOw I have days where with some pain, I am just about normal. Some days I need help. I have had this for 31 yrs now. Undiagnosed for 23 yrs although the problem was sending me to the ER of doctors office OFTEN.

    I am NOT going to just hang up life, lay here and have ppl waiting on me. NOT going to happen. I can do my own floors on some days and that is when they'll get done.

    I can't not even imagine giving up life completely and waiting for the day when I can no longer move. To end up in a chair without having done anything at all with my horses or gardens or whatever I choose to an extent, would be worse than death. I would prefer death.

    The specialist that i see once a yr has always told me what I should and should not do to keep out of a chair the longest and also said, I can not tell you how to live your life, that is up to you. ANd it should be now.

    To clarify, when saying losing ANOTHER doctor, the other one was not lost because of hte same situation. I should not have even called the title that. Another doctor I deal with just passed away, I had been his patient for my whole life.

    I find it appalling how some ppl just give up and lay on their ass, not even trying to do for themselves. Let hte state pay for their home to be cleaned, rely on meals on wheels when they don't have to. Take anything for free they can get. IT makes me sick.

    Sorry, but I will do for myself, as long as I can possibly crawl.

    And I truly feel it wouldn't matter WHAT I said on this forum or in what category, it would be wrong. Funny, how I am so well liked in my community and very much respected. Ppl in the area have always been behind me. But I guess those ppl KNOW me and ppl here don't.

    I think it best if I don't again start a post here, but IM not going away, and will on occasion reply to a post that interests me. You're entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to some type of a life.



  5. #5
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    Apr. 29, 2006
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    Evansville, Wisconsin
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    Default

    I can see both sides of this argument, honestly.

    As a doctor, it would be very frustrating to want to help a patient who won't do the things you think will help them. Though I have no clue what's actually best for your condition or if your doctor's advice was good/bad/unreasonable, I imagine he feels he does know best. Though I've never worked in human medicine, I used to work at a vet clinic, and some of the things people refused to change in their pet's care made me very frustrated.

    But of course, you know yourself better than anyone, and you know what you want out of life, and what you are willing or unwilling to give up. And it's important to have a doctor who will listen, and work with you to come up with constructive ways for you to find a balance between health and pleasure.

    Though I agree that there's not much point to longevity if you have no quality of life, it doesn't have to be all or nothing.

    Don't feel as though you have to do everything yourself. It's okay to have some help, and it might be worthwhile prioritizing which activities you really love, and which you'd be okay with having someone else do. You might find that you enjoy the activities you enjoy even more if you haven't been over taxed by the things that just need to get done.

    Instead of telling your health care providers what they want to hear, talk to them openly about what activities you consider essential to your quality of life, and what sacrifices you're willing to make to maintain them. Personally, I'd have a hard time giving up my horse and grocery shopping for myself, but I wouldn't put up too much of a snit over losing the shoveling and vacuuming.



  6. #6
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    Mar. 8, 2004
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    Baltimore, MD
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    Default

    Keep looking until you find a doctor that understands that quality of life is more important to you than quantity of life and are willing to support your decision. You don't need someone telling you what you can't do but instead helping you figure out how to do what is important to you. It sounds like your activities are going to take a huge toll on your body and you will pay for it in the end but that is your decision to make, not the doctors. If I had a nickel for every doctor that told me I could never ride again....



  7. #7
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    Oct. 8, 2009
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    Arroyo Grande,CA
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    Default

    [QUOTE=WaningMoon;4615801]I can't not even imagine giving up life completely and waiting for the day when I can no longer move. To end up in a chair without having done anything at all with my horses or gardens or whatever I choose to an extent, would be worse than death. I would prefer death.
    QUOTE]


    I suppose I take exception to the above remark , I've been in a chair for 19 years. I'd hate to think the last 19 years off my life is worse than death.

    Yet, I can clean, corrals, vacum and work a full time job, and show my horses. I do list priorities, as to what I can and cannot accomplish, I have someone come in and clean the house, every other week, I'd rather not clean the bathrooms, I'd rather work my horses. I also have someone come and do barn chores 3 times a week. Also so I can go to work and have time to play with the horses.

    So I figure out what I want in my life and then go for it. Find a dr that will help you create the lifestyle you want.

    Diane



  8. #8
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    Dec. 4, 2002
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    Default

    Please also remember that MDs are human, and come with their own biases. You want one who is willing to work with you, and who understands what you want out of life. Just like trainers!
    www.specialhorses.org
    a 501(c)3 organization helping 501(c)3 equine rescues




  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul. 13, 2008
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WaningMoon View Post
    Just got a letter. I have been asked to find another doctor within the next six months. My doctor says it has come to his attention that I have no intention of following his orders. That he has a waiting list of ppl waiting to get on his patient load. That keeping me whilst I refuse to abide by his orders is preventing others, who would like to follow orders, from receiving his care. And that just isn't fair. Said there was no problem at all with refilling my pain meds and whatnot until I find another doctor and he would continue filling out my med marijuana forms as well if the new doc couldn't.
    I can understand a doctor being distressed by a patient's decision to not follow his medical advice, and hastening a physical decline. To me, it's the doctor's right to say "Look, I can't handle watching this happen and I feel it's unethical to continue treating you. Please find another health care provider. Good luck, it's been good knowing you, and I wish you the best."

    If the doctor's letter truly contains the passage from the OP, he's a jerk. He does his best to heap guilt on the patient - you're taking up valuable patient space, you're wasting my time, you're a worthless patient unless you agree to follow my advice to prolong but limit your independence. The very nicest way you can read it is that he's using 'tough love' to try to get the OP to come back to him as an obedient patient. And even that is just inappropriate.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    May. 2, 2002
    Posts
    1,312

    Default I am very sorry :(

    I have been through a plethora of doctors. My neurologist I have now wants me to do as much as I can safely. He encourages me to get out to see the horses and even to ride. We have discussed the fact that horses are my life. They are the reason I wake up each morning.

    Doctors have different methods of treatment. I have been lucky to find this neuro. I have been told by others to sell the horses, but I told those doctors it was not an option and I sought treatment elsewhere.

    Best of luck finding a doctor you can mesh with
    Beth



  11. #11
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    Oct. 3, 2002
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    it's not the edge of the earth, but you can see it from here
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    Default

    Those who FIGHT for every moment of their time with horses are incredibly inspiring to me. Sometimes I don't know where you find your passion and inspiration.

    It sounds like an incredibly 'rock vs. hard place' situation.

    I'm fighting my current PCP just a little over things like flu shots and cholesterol meds. (I don't want, they want) I can't *imagine* if it was over the BIG things.

    Thoughts & prayers to you. Don't lose the passion.
    InnisFailte Pinto Sporthorses & Coloured Cobs
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Bits are like cats, what's one more? (Petstorejunkie)



  12. #12
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    Sep. 13, 2008
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    Default

    Was out doing my chores a while ago, when my daughter called out to me that my doctor was on the phone. Good thing LEah is home on break from college or I would have missed it.

    Quite a shocker, there was a BIG mixup. This letter was NOT supposed to be sent to ME. It was meant to be sent to another patient with an eerily similar case, even to the same first name, although spelled differently, even similar meds. He said all the similarities are what caused the nurse, who obviously was paying good enough attention to him, to send it to me instead.This is a huge practice involving 12 different doctors and is a Community HEalth Ctr, in our biggest city, 60 miles from me. I tried local docs for 23 yrs with no help at all. I know they are VERY busy there and I understand, although don't think it should have happened.

    He said he was extremely sorry that this has happened and can understand it being upsetting to me. He said I am one of his easiest and most trusted patients. That I have been around there for 8 yrs now and they have no plan of sending me off. He then jokingly said, we'd keep you around for all the baby/kids sweaters I knit and donate, if nothing else.

    He said the problem they are having with this other patient has nothing to do with her not following directions in the way of doing more than they are supposed to at all. He said it was a serious matter and they have had to get legal representation because of it. Of course he could not discuss details but I do believe I know who the patient is, there has before been a mix up where my script was mailed to her instead. And that sure was a problem.

    But nope, Im fine. He seemed surprised that I read that letter and didn't immediately feel it didnt fit with my case. I mentioned them being mad about me shoveling and whatnot. HE said I have not seen him mad. HE said they know how independent and stuck on doing for myself I am and that they find that fact is part of what makes me special. I blushed. He said all they can do is tell me what is BEST for me and what in their opinion will keep me mobile as long as possible. He said he CAN NOT tell me how to live. How I use his info is in the end up to ME. He said he would rather I did not shovel snow but also realized the position I would be in if I didn't. He said he is more upset by the fact that I don't have ppl who will help me. He said I have taken care of my family my whole life and that it is now time for them to help me. Well, for the most part that isn't going to happen. Although I must say, I do not have to lug 30 gallons of water to the barn anymore. Kenny is home at nights during the week now and is lugging the huge hose out there after he gets home at 8pm and doing the watering for me. A HUGE HELP and I so much appreciate it. But it is hard to get help from someone who is absent from the house from 4;30 am to 8 pm too. My kids all work and are not right close by. Leah does do a bit for me when she is on breaks and is doing dishes right now. Jen has on her own gone out and done shit detail for me twice this yr too. Maybe they are growing up a bit and seeing I could use a bit of help. I WILL NOT ask them for any help at all, if they can't see it is needed, I will get by on my own.

    I am not as deceiving to them about what I do as it may have sounded. I do keep some things from them but not to the extent they think I do nothing. He knows I do my horse chores but has no idea all that entails. He knows I shovel snow but thinks of me doing the stairs and deck, not the whole drive. I couldn't live with myself if I was THAT dishonest. Plus, if I end up having a flare up because of it, I would want to be able to say how I did it.

    HE said he wished he had MORE patients like me. SAid it was much more likely for patients to give up and some even like to be waited on. He said he is much more likely to get requests for additional services over someone like me refusing them. Also said, he shook things up in the office quite a bit this morning and feels there will now be more attention paid to where things are to be sent.

    I asked about a couple of thing in the letter. Just wondering about a couple of the statements whether it was meant for someone else or not. He said the letter was not his choice of words and was done as it was on the advice of their attorney.

    So, I am in the clear, and should have not have had to be upset by this in the first place. Very good news. And it is very nice to know that they ARE behind me and appreciate me for who I am.



  13. #13
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    Sep. 13, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Movin Artfully View Post
    You are admittedly non-compliant. It would be unethical for any physician to continue your care (including btw prescribing narcotic pain medication and medical marijuana) if you perform activities that they feel are unsafe/detrimental while under their care.

    Bottom line...stop thinking of ways to "say what they want to hear" (ie: lie). And consider following their orders/restrictions set in place that might help you. It may help to look at it from the viewpoint that It is your illness that limits you...instead of your mean, old physician.

    As someone in the health care field, I can tell you that there are not many doctors who "fire" patients. The ones who have done it, in my experience, had the patient's best interest in mind.
    As you will likely read below, this letter was not meant for me. I too have worked in the health care field, both human and animal. I have not seen doctors who demand ppl to not do things, whether it could further hurt them or not, and it is NOT their place to do so.

    Where did I mention narcotic pain meds? That was your assumption, many pain meds are not narcotic. Just pointing that out, all I said was pain meds. You ARE correct though, that I am, and by law they can't just stop prescribing with no notice. Here the notice has to be at least 30 days, if the meds are narcotic. I would much rather be able to live on none, but I can't, and I am tough. I've had 4 c-sections with out any pain meds at my request and old fashioned gall bladder surgery without any too. And come home and milked our cows three days later. I NEED to be on the meds I am on, there is no other way I could stand to live. I was on morphine for yrs and 5 yrs ago was switched to Methadone and I get much more relief from that and it last longer too.

    You are also wrong about the statement that to fill out my forms for med marijuana registry is unethical too. IN Vermont, the ONLY requirement for the doctor is this. 1- To say that the patient suffers chronic, intractable pain, and 2- that you have a bonafide relationship with the patient of at least 6 months. That is it, nothing more. They DO NOT even have to approve of its use. It is NOT their business to decide whether they find it appropriate treatment or not. The state already decided that it is. It is the ONLY thing that brings me any relief from nerve pain, the only thing.



  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laurierace View Post
    Keep looking until you find a doctor that understands that quality of life is more important to you than quantity of life and are willing to support your decision. You don't need someone telling you what you can't do but instead helping you figure out how to do what is important to you. It sounds like your activities are going to take a huge toll on your body and you will pay for it in the end but that is your decision to make, not the doctors. If I had a nickel for every doctor that told me I could never ride again....
    thank you very much for your support.



  15. #15
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    Wow. I am glad that things were resolved and you don't need to look for someone new!
    www.specialhorses.org
    a 501(c)3 organization helping 501(c)3 equine rescues




  16. #16
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    [QUOTE=cadriver;4616754]
    Quote Originally Posted by WaningMoon View Post
    I can't not even imagine giving up life completely and waiting for the day when I can no longer move. To end up in a chair without having done anything at all with my horses or gardens or whatever I choose to an extent, would be worse than death. I would prefer death.
    QUOTE]


    I suppose I take exception to the above remark , I've been in a chair for 19 years. I'd hate to think the last 19 years off my life is worse than death.

    Yet, I can clean, corrals, vacum and work a full time job, and show my horses. I do list priorities, as to what I can and cannot accomplish, I have someone come in and clean the house, every other week, I'd rather not clean the bathrooms, I'd rather work my horses. I also have someone come and do barn chores 3 times a week. Also so I can go to work and have time to play with the horses.

    So I figure out what I want in my life and then go for it. Find a dr that will help you create the lifestyle you want.

    Diane
    OH, my, I am so very sorry. That is NOT how I meant that to sound and to me it doesn't, but I have likely used a bad choice of words again or something.

    I meant, on the way to the chair, not once im there. I meant giving up and not doing anything, and WAITING for the day I can not move. Like BEFORE I get to a chair. I in no way meant for it to sound like I felt that being in a chair was worse than death at all. Just that TO ME, doing nothing and waiting for it to happen was.

    It is remarkable what you are able to do from your chair and it gives me much encouragement. I hope I can do half what you can, I will be happy. I imagine that you must have good level ground, I can't imagine even manuvering a chair out here, we are right on a BIG hill. All the pastures and the paddock are on quite an incline. But maybe when the time comes I will be somewhere different, it seems to be the way it goes. I find a vacant run down place to rent, turn it into a real nice home, and then they want it back. Six times now. I'd give anything to have a place of my own.

    Please forgive me that you were able to interpret this to mean what you thought I meant. You are right. That would not have been very nice at all of me. I wish I could still have a job but the doc is adamant about that and will not sign off so I can. And OSHA will not allow me in a work place on the meds I am on either.

    I wish you the very best and find you totally inspirational.



  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Invite View Post
    I have been through a plethora of doctors. My neurologist I have now wants me to do as much as I can safely. He encourages me to get out to see the horses and even to ride. We have discussed the fact that horses are my life. They are the reason I wake up each morning.

    Doctors have different methods of treatment. I have been lucky to find this neuro. I have been told by others to sell the horses, but I told those doctors it was not an option and I sought treatment elsewhere.

    Best of luck finding a doctor you can mesh with
    Thank you. Horses and grandkids are for sure the reason I wake up each day too. Actually Im up most of the night, so maybe waking up, isn't the right words either, but thats another story.



  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by pintopiaffe View Post
    Those who FIGHT for every moment of their time with horses are incredibly inspiring to me. Sometimes I don't know where you find your passion and inspiration.

    It sounds like an incredibly 'rock vs. hard place' situation.

    I'm fighting my current PCP just a little over things like flu shots and cholesterol meds. (I don't want, they want) I can't *imagine* if it was over the BIG things.

    Thoughts & prayers to you. Don't lose the passion.
    Well, thank you very much, how kind you are. Many ppl think Im nuts, far from inspiring. But they aren't horse ppl either. It does make a difference. If I still had a dairy herd, I think I could give that up easily enough. But my horses are staying, just as they have for the last 41 yrs. If I am recalling correctly you have a lot on your own plate. Believe me, I find many of you guys inspirational too. I'd have to to stick around with all the nasties there are to deal with too. I will now see your name and say, oh, that's that nice lady who was supportive and had very lovely things to say.



  19. #19
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    May. 2, 2002
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    Thumbs up You made my day!!!

    I was truly worried about you and wishing we could get you to my doctors. It is so nice to know you are also blessed with a dr who understands your need to fight and continue your way of life in order to live. My doctors are happy to have a fighter. I have been told if I weren't so hard headed and such a fighter that I would probably be bedridden. I'm happy knowing there is another tough cookie who is taking charge of her life rather then letting life take charge of her. You go girl! I'll be here rooting for you
    PS: I think it is so awesome that you take the time to knit sweaters for little ones rather than focusing on your on pain. You are truly kind!!!
    Beth



  20. #20
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    I am glad it got resolved in a positive manner!

    But as a daughter of a fiercely indipendent old battle axe of a mother (I loff her dearly ) do tell your girls when you need help!
    because you are a doer and not a complainer it is hard for us to gauge correctly when we are really needed.

    big hugs!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.



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