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  1. #1
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    Default Holsteiner Stallions

    Who are the good ones?



  2. #2
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    Isn't that kind of like asking.... "Canadians, who are the good ones?"

    Don't expect a lot of reasonable responses unless you refine your question a bit....
    Siegi Belz
    www.stalleuropa.com
    2007 KWPN-NA Breeder of the Year
    Dutch Warmbloods Made in the U. S. A.



  3. #3
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    I'm not a bloodlines buff, or even a breeder (yet)! But these are some of my favorites:

    Lotus T
    http://www.prairiepinesfarm.com/LotusT.asp

    Cicera's Icewater
    http://www.westwiththewind.com/cicerasicewater.htm


    Riverman
    [url]http://www.hilltopfarminc.com/stallion_riverman.html[\url]



    But I started googling Holsteiner stallions, and I think I like them all! Lots of gorgeous ones out there!
    Last edited by magicteetango; Jan. 9, 2010 at 09:36 AM. Reason: Putting in the correct link for the right Riverman!



  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by siegi b. View Post
    Isn't that kind of like asking.... "Canadians, who are the good ones?"

    Don't expect a lot of reasonable responses unless you refine your question a bit....
    Canadian horses?

    If I knew anything about the breed I would reply with who I thought were good producers, and why.

    I guess I want to know who the well known Holsteiner stallions are to start with. I don't know much about the breed except they are bred to jump.



  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by siegi b. View Post
    Isn't that kind of like asking.... "Canadians, who are the good ones?"

    Don't expect a lot of reasonable responses unless you refine your question a bit....

    I second this. A good one is the right one for your mare. I suggest you start your research at the Holsteiner Verband in Germany(HV) and the American Holsteiner Horse Association (AHHA). If you have any more question many here will be happy to help.

    Holsteiner Verband
    http://www.holsteiner-verband.de/

    AHHA
    http://www.holsteiner.com/

    Tim
    Sparling Rock Holsteiners
    www.sparlingrock.com



  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by magicteetango View Post
    I'm not a bloodlines buff, or even a breeder (yet)! But these are some of my favorites:

    Lotus T
    http://www.prairiepinesfarm.com/LotusT.asp

    Cicera's Icewater
    http://www.westwiththewind.com/cicerasicewater.htm

    Riverman ISF
    http://www.ironspringfarm.com/horses...le&catunid=135

    But I started googling Holsteiner stallions, and I think I like them all! Lots of gorgeous ones out there!
    Magic,

    Lotus T is out of a TB mother, and could never be approved by the Verband. I would not use him as an example of a Holsteiner. Icewater is a good Holsteiner stallion, but needs the right mother. Riverman is a used for dressage and Holsteiners are mostly Jumpers. He also needs a specific type of mare. He stands at Hilltop not Ironspring.

    Tim
    Sparling Rock Holsteiners
    www.sparlingrock.com



  7. #7
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    Tim,

    See you learn something new every day! This is why I warned people I was not an expert, lol. I've just been browsing and doing my initial research for when I do breed my mare in another year or two, but this leaves a big concern.

    Why can't Lotus T be approved with a TB dam? Does the Verband not approve any TB mares for breeding?

    What sort of mare do you feel Cicera's Icewater needs and why?

    And same for Riverman?

    I'm trying to learn everything I can!



  8. #8
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    If you were to post what you wanted for your mare, what she needs improvement on, and what you wanted to do with the foal - that would be very useful! We all have our favorites and there's lots to choose from.

    Jill



  9. #9
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    Hi Magic,

    There are many others that are better at speaking to these stallions then me, but I will try and answer your questions directly as I can.

    For the most part the answer is no, non-holsteiner mothers are not approved for breeding in Holstein. There are exceptions like in the case of Taggi, but she was an Olympic medalist, showjumper ridden by Soren Von Ronne. Only outside stallions can be presented. This is a little different here. Lotus T could not be presented in the US today and get approved. I am not saying anything about his breeding abilities, just the rules.

    I have owned, and bred to Icewater. I have seen maybe 12 and their mothers. He does best with Modern, blooded type Holstieners with attractive heads. He makes big and athletic. Mare should have a good loose shoulder. You wil get good legs from this guy, especially hind. He comes from a long line of great mothers. His mother is full sister to Cicero and Cavalier Royale. He doesn't tend to make many premium foals. They need time to turn into swans.

    I have seen plenty of Rivermans, but have never bred to him. I understand from others that he does best with blooded mares with good minds. I have seen plenty of Prem. Foals, but few in upper levels of sport. He has bred more mares then any other stallion that I can think of, here in the US. Others can maybe speak more to him, but his motherline does not have many stallions that are used in Holstein. He is probably one of the most attractive stallions you will see in person.

    Tim
    Sparling Rock Holsteiners
    www.sparlingrock.com



  10. #10
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    Riverman ISF is actually a Dutch Warmblood at Iron Spring Farm, not the holsteiner that stood (stands?) at Hilltop.



  11. #11
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    Cosette, I realized that and edited it out. I just kind of copied the link without really looking... bad me! Boy did I feel silly.

    Tim, thank you for all the information. There's a lot to this and a lot to learn, which is why I am trying to start now so I'll be educated by the time I breed. Really, I'm not very breed specific (she's a Thoroughbred), I'm trying to match type for type and get the small bit of improvement I'm looking for (really, I'd clone her if I could) so all of this information is extremely helpful.



  12. #12
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    A bit of improvement doesn't really say anything. What discipline are you breeding for? Just randomly breeding for whatever isn't the best idea. What are the conformation faults of your mare, how does she jump, how does she move? It would be a miracle to pick a random stallion to breed to your mare for whatever and expect something nice. Just something to think about.



  13. #13
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    Ava, this isn't my thread which is why I'm not elaborating and why I am doing my research. When I said "not breed specific", I didn't mean just any breed. I mean I'm open to most registries (warmblood). But that is why I was curious about the Holsteiner approval of TB mares, because I do want the foal registered. I didn't mean I would just breed to a "pretty horse" and hope for the best.

    I know what my goals are and what I would like to improve on her (a little less sensitive, a little more bone, a better canter). What I am trying to do is learn more about the process of choosing a stallion (WHY would x crossed with x = x), and more about the registries so that when and if I choose to breed her in the next year or two I make a highly educated decision.



  14. #14
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    BTW - for those interested,the rules for TB mares has changed significantly with the AHHA in the past year. It's worth researching more. I'd tell you more, but honestly, since I'm not using TB mares and the rules are pretty convoluted - I don't know exactly.

    Jill



  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyTimMick View Post
    Magic,

    Lotus T is out of a TB mother, and could never be approved by the Verband. Lotus T could not be presented in the US today and get approved
    Tim
    He is on the list, so do you mean the rules have changed since he was approved? And what is the rules about NA approved stallions and the Verband, do they recognize the NA approved stallions offspring at all? From a Verband approved mare?



  16. #16
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    yes, rules have changed. he would not be able to be presented now. that said, his approval was permanent and he remains an approved stallion.

    the verband does not recognise american approved stallions. while one of their own does the approvals, it is an entirely different mare-base that they approve for here vs there. there was one stallion this year i know they would like to see presented there, and also con caletto was approved there after here. pricey operation though!

    no difference regarding the mare. its to do with the population to be bred to and not having the entire core commission present here to do the approval. the door is open for stallions to be presented there though.

    i think op needs to start back with the likes of cassini, landgraf and contender and work from there. these are foundation stallions which remain extremely revelant to the sport and the breed today. its a good start point.

    sorry tim... not to hijack your discussion. please jump back in....



  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by magicteetango View Post
    Ava, this isn't my thread which is why I'm not elaborating and why I am doing my research. When I said "not breed specific", I didn't mean just any breed. I mean I'm open to most registries (warmblood). But that is why I was curious about the Holsteiner approval of TB mares, because I do want the foal registered. I didn't mean I would just breed to a "pretty horse" and hope for the best.

    I know what my goals are and what I would like to improve on her (a little less sensitive, a little more bone, a better canter). What I am trying to do is learn more about the process of choosing a stallion (WHY would x crossed with x = x), and more about the registries so that when and if I choose to breed her in the next year or two I make a highly educated decision.

    Sorry, I shouldn't post half asleep.



  18. #18
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    Thanks Nick, question answered.



  19. #19
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    Thanks for jumping in Nick and everyone. It is always good to have more people in on the info spreading. Sorry about the Riverman ISF Cosette, I assumed she meant the Holsteiner. I don't know anything about the Dutch Warmblood.

    You can present a TB mare for breeding approvals to have a registered AHHA foal. However, the door has narrowed to outside mares, and they must obtain a min. of 46 bonits to enter the Main Mare Book. Foals that obtain full registration papers must be out of a mare in the MMB. You can obtain "Silver" reg. papers for a foal if the Mare is in the Mare Book (43-45) and the foal is by an AHHA or HV approved stallion.

    [FONT=RotisSansSerif-Identity-H][SIZE=2][FONT=RotisSansSerif-Identity-H][SIZE=2][LEFT]http://www.holsteiner.com/BreedingRu...rs%20Rules.pdf

    Mares that make it into the MB but have an approved sports record can be entered into the MMB.

    When deciding on what WB registry you go with it is best to start with discipline, then choose a studbook that performs best with that discipline. Make sure they are friendly to TB mares and then see if there is a stallion that works well on TB's. ie: Concerto Grosso (owned by the owners of Icewater) works very well on TB mares, he is breeding approved AHHA and ISR. Nick can speak of this stallion as he has ridden him. Both ISR and RHPSI are friendly to TB's. I would start there. If you intend to become a breeder, sell the the TB mare and get yourself a WB mare or filly. If the goal is a registered foal out of your mare, then have her presented to ISR 1st. and then look whether or not you think she can make it into the AHHA book. 46 Bonits is not an easy task for a TB mare. If you have not been to a bunch of inspections to see what gets approved I wouldn't recommend starting with AHHA.

    Oh, and did I say to look at Concerto Grosso, he does wonders with TB's.

    Tim[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=RotisSansSerif-Identity-H][SIZE=2][FONT=RotisSansSerif-Identity-H][SIZE=2][/LEFT]
    [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]
    Sparling Rock Holsteiners
    www.sparlingrock.com



  20. #20
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    Tim,

    As much as I would love to get into breeding as a hobby (and at that point acquire said WB mares), there'll be no way I can part with my mare =). Your tips are amazingly helpful, I was just thinking of how helpful a spin off would be: How did you start breeding? And get some tips from breeders.

    It's a really difficult thing to learn about. I see lots of stallions that I really like as individuals, I try to make sure that I like all of their foals as well, and out of Thoroughbred mares since that is what I am working with. But it's still difficult, as everyone knows, the conformation varies so very much from Thoroughbred to Thoroughbred that even if the foal is out of a TB, that TB may be nothing like my mare (or the conformation I like).

    So I'm trying to learn all that I can before I start but it's not an easy road. Again, thank you so much for your tips! Big help!



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