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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun. 15, 2002
    Location
    Gainesville, FL
    Posts
    6,073

    Cool WOW..big surpise on a knee x-ray (X-RAYS ADDED)

    My horse's knee is fractured in a few places. Its the bone that sticks out in the back. Who knew? Not us! Vet thinks its probably been like that for a few years now. Which I have for a few years though hmm, he is not quite right on that left front, but it was soo subtle my vet in CO didn't see it and I could really only feel it every now and then. So, I am not crazy!! He did strain his high suspensory on his left front which we think when he did that he tweaked where he has fractured his knee to inflame there. He would just not come 100% from his strain. So we finally blocked it out again and he was still lame. We blocked out everything below the knee and still lame. Then block the joint of the knee which shouldn't really communicate with the area that is broken, but he was sound. Like my sound horse I have been missing for years now!! So, it looks as healed as its going to get, so we are gonna inject the knee and see if that keeps him sound and go from there.

    Feel kinda guilty as I was jumping him 4 foot plus but he was never really lame before the suspensory injury.

    If i can figure out how to get the digital x-rays into jpgs then I will post them on here. Its crazy insane and the last thing the vet ever thought he would find!!
    Last edited by Beethoven; Jan. 2, 2010 at 06:31 PM.
    I love cats, I love every single cat....
    So anyway I am a cat lover
    And I love to run.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar. 10, 2009
    Posts
    5,717

    Default

    You mean "sound" as in "sound and retired", right?



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun. 15, 2002
    Location
    Gainesville, FL
    Posts
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    Nope, he will return to some riding work. He is really not lame to a normal person. My vet is really really good. I have owned the horse for over 9 yrs so can tell if somethings NQR.

    As long as he seems happy to work then he will. He has been for a few years now best we can guess. He runs around and bucks and rears like a goofball in turnout. He is far ready from being retired. He is turning 19 tom/ JC but his real 19th b-day is May 11th.
    I love cats, I love every single cat....
    So anyway I am a cat lover
    And I love to run.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul. 2, 2003
    Location
    Woodland, Ca
    Posts
    6,276

    Default

    Why would she retire him for a healed injury that he's had for years if they can get him comfortable on it? This horse was jumping 4ft on that knee in the same condition it is in now. It's possible that the inactivity that he went through to heal the suspensory has made the knee more achey than it would be had he been working and that a joint injection and going back to work is the best thing that could happen to this horse.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun. 4, 2006
    Posts
    2,581

    Default

    Is the fracture healed?



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun. 15, 2002
    Location
    Gainesville, FL
    Posts
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    Yes, its not moving or going anywhere. The bones are not even displaced from where they should be just not touching like they should be but my vet felt it was healed.

    Its crazy and truthfully the last thing we ever thought. We were thinking he had some arthritis in the joint since he is almost 19 yrs old, but no.

    I am trusting my vet here, but obviously if the horse is not sound enough for riding then I will not ride him. He is my baby, horse of a lifetime that I have had for over 9 years now. I will do whatever he wants to do, but he gets bored sitting around doing nothing. As for the last 6 months we were rehabbing his suspensory strain. Vet feels like he has had this for years not months. As it looks old not new, again I trust him as I am far from an expert at reading radiography.
    I love cats, I love every single cat....
    So anyway I am a cat lover
    And I love to run.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan. 23, 2004
    Location
    Camden, De
    Posts
    3,640

    Default

    FWIW- my horse had a knee injury last september and when we took the x-rays we found the same thing. I can't recall it off the top of my head but the bone there at the back of the knee was obviously fractured. When we sent the x-rays to new bolton the vet was sure that was an old fracture due to it's shape and smoothness. The horse had been being ridden 5-6 day a week for the 3 yrs that I had owned him competing at novice but jumping close to 4ft at home and never an off step.

    The lameness was really coming from tramau to the front part of his knee which showed up on the bone scan but nothing was showing on the x-rays initially. A few weeks later he developed bone spurs and that is what we are currently dealing with. The fracture behind the knee didn't bother him and truthfully might never bother him. I have injected and used shockwave for the spurs in the front of the knee. He has come amazingly sound and is holding up to everything we have thrown at him.

    Tough connemara/tb so maybe that is part of it but I never thought he would return to jumping let alone foxhunting and more. I don't know when he had the previous fracture behind the knee but he never showed any indication that it bothered him and I had bought him as a 3 yr.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun. 15, 2002
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    Gainesville, FL
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    Interesting Jlee. The vet and I feel like his knee joint is starting to become sore. He has the very very beginnings of arthritis in that knee. He did have a suspensory strain which the vet says happens with hyper extention which would also probably be how the fracture happened long ago, so when he hurt his suspensory he irritated that soft tissue around the fracture. Obviously these are just assumptions, but the fracture is smooth and not jagged with some calcification.

    Vet is fairly confident that if we inject his knee then that will help him feel better as he blocked out completely sound! So far no bone spurs, but I will keep that in the back of my head.

    I just wanted to share this because it was such a shock to everyone! Certainly does not look like a horse with a broken knee.
    I love cats, I love every single cat....
    So anyway I am a cat lover
    And I love to run.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb. 21, 2009
    Posts
    1,871

    Default

    If i can figure out how to get the digital x-rays into jpgs then I will post them on here.
    If you have microsoft , Try saving the Xray into your picture files. Then open it, then close it with the "save as" function instead of just "close" and choose jpeg from the format options that come up. if you want the original in the format it was, do this with a copy of it ,not the original.
    Patty Stiller CNBBT,CNBF,CLS, CE
    Natural Balance Certified Lameness Specialist ,instructor.
    www.hoofcareonline.com



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun. 15, 2002
    Location
    Gainesville, FL
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    I got the x-rays into pics.

    They are a little dark once I uploaded them but u can see the fracture.

    I have been reading a lot about accessory carpal bone fractures. They a lot of times heal fibrously and not bone back to bone which is the case with my horse we believe. I think I also got lucky as its just at the very top. I was looking at some pics of others online and they were not so pretty.

    Anyways here they are:

    Looking through the knee..you can see the fracture on the upper left hand part of the knee:
    http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...9/noahknee.jpg

    Another shot (DLPMO...mislabeled in file title and link):
    http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...hkneedlmpo.jpg

    DMPLO:
    http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...hkneedmplo.jpg

    Lateral shot:
    http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...neelateral.jpg

    Zoomed in of the first x-ray:
    http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...ahkneezoom.jpg

    Just wanted to share the crazy findings. I trust my vet and what he says about the protocol of how to treat and go about this. He believes this is an OLD injury.
    I love cats, I love every single cat....
    So anyway I am a cat lover
    And I love to run.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar. 15, 2008
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    199

    Default

    The bone that is fractured is called the "accessory carpal bone". It does look quiet. Good Luck with your boy.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr. 7, 2005
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    With a dog named Rockstar
    Posts
    2,997

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    Wow is right!!!

    I'm dying to know what vet you used in Colo (I have 2 good guesses!). Email me if you are interested in sharing that

    Good luck with him!



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan. 23, 2004
    Location
    Camden, De
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    3,640

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    Finally finished organizing all my records last night. This was my guys vet report from his consult at New Bolton (I shortened it up quite a bit).
    " Left middle carpal joint and removal of unusually located palmar osteochondral fragment. Mild fragmentation and prolific changes associated with the dorsal aspect of the carpus. Concern over etiology of the palmar fragment. It was rounded. 1.5/5 lame in left front. Markedly lame to carpal flexion test. Scinitigraphs done of soft tissue and bone. Extensive synoviitis and subchondral bone abnormal radiopharmacuetical uptake were seen. Both sides of the middle carpal joint and both the dorsal and palmar aspects as well as the carpometacarpal joint. Believed that he experienced considerable trama to left middle carpal and carpometacarapal joints and mild fragmentation but most likely considerable osteo arthiritic changes occuring. I don't believe palmar fragment is associated with most recent trauma."
    x-rays-
    lateral- http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2692/...6e22d1406b.jpg
    http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4004/...63a42ca37f.jpg
    http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4001/...1927f9639f.jpg

    The last line of his report was that he was very concerned about the outcome. I was told the horse didn't hve a chance of being riding sound again but my horse is one tough guy and has never listened to the rules

    The reason both vets thought it was old was due to the shape and smoothness. Also during the bone scan everything lit up but mainly the front part of the knee leading him to believe that the fracture in the back was not the main source of the trauma. The bone spurs didn't show up right away so you couldn't see them that well in that set of x-rays.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun. 15, 2002
    Location
    Gainesville, FL
    Posts
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FatPalomino View Post
    Wow is right!!!

    I'm dying to know what vet you used in Colo (I have 2 good guesses!). Email me if you are interested in sharing that

    Good luck with him!

    Actually I loved my vet and really do not think its their fault it was missed.

    The fact was that he was never really lame. Everyone and I mean like 6 or more people including the vet and farrier thought I was crazy and couldn't see anything. I think it was so subtle I could just feel it. It was never every step maybe 2 funny steps in the corner in one ride.

    Got a tough horse, surprisingly for a TB.
    I love cats, I love every single cat....
    So anyway I am a cat lover
    And I love to run.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug. 5, 2009
    Posts
    411

    Default

    Beethoven
    Wow!! I am no vet, nor have I really looked at too many equine xrays, but I AM a human xray tech, and those are some very nice xrays!

    I know thats completely random, but its my job, and I can appreciate a good film when I see one.

    On a different note, it seems that you have a very keen "feel" for your boy if you noticed what was hardly there, so he is lucky to have you!

    Best wishes!!!
    "Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." *Thomas Edison
    A champion is a dreamer that refused to give up!!



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jun. 4, 2006
    Posts
    2,581

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beethoven View Post
    Actually I loved my vet and really do not think its their fault it was missed.

    The fact was that he was never really lame. Everyone and I mean like 6 or more people including the vet and farrier thought I was crazy and couldn't see anything. I think it was so subtle I could just feel it. It was never every step maybe 2 funny steps in the corner in one ride.

    Got a tough horse, surprisingly for a TB.
    I had a simular experience when my horse was diagnosed with high articular ringbone. He took a few short steps on the ashfalt then troted out sound, troted out sound again, then flexed out sound, then was sound both directions on the lounge surgeon said basically sound. But he felt intermittently lame undersaddle at walk and trot, thats when took radiographs

    Best wishes with your horse now and in the future.



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