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  1. #1
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    Default Wild horse roundup to begin in Nevada amid protest

    Experience is what you get, when you didn't get what you wanted.



  2. #2
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    ---"The roundup is part of the Bureau of Land Management's overall strategy to remove thousands of mustangs from public lands across the West to protect wild horse herds and the rangelands that support them. The bureau estimates about half of the nearly 37,000 wild mustangs live in Nevada, with others concentrated in Arizona, California, Oregon, Utah and Wyoming."---

    Our "mustang" came from a herd in Nevada as a five year old and had trouble with his knees all his life.
    The vet diagnosed it as the equivalent of rickets, from having been raised in droughts and with little to eat, pure malnutrition.

    I sure hope that managing herd's sizes, so the horses can at least grow up without such malnutrition problems, is easy to understand by most rational people, as a good way to keep horses healthy.

    If horse owners let their horses eat the grass into the ground and starve, they go to jail, as they should.
    The BLM is trying to control numbers so they don't starve and they are being taken to court by those protesting.
    Doesn't make much sense, does it.



  3. #3
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    Aug. 23, 2002
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    It really doesn't Bluey.

    Makes no sense at all.


    It's not much different than deer hunting. Population control is the only way to keep an existing herd healthy. It's a sad truth of wildlife management. Not always pretty, but it's better than watching animals starve to death or die of diseases related to malnutrition and overpopulation.
    -Jessica



  4. #4
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    What can I say? Too many horses, not enough food. Starvation! Have populations removed or let them starve. Or better yet, adopt them yourself. There are far too many horses and not enough homes.

    Good Luck!



  5. #5
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    Remove the thousands of mustangs after you remove the millions of cattle. Did anyone think that the cattle are eating the horse's grass? That's private enterprise using public lands.



  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Susan P View Post
    Remove the thousands of mustangs after you remove the millions of cattle. Did anyone think that the cattle are eating the horse's grass? That's private enterprise using public lands.


    Private enterprise which is paying for the privilege, and who are regulated in where and when they can graze how many head. (In fact I'm pretty sure at least one COTH poster is a grazing manager at a state level and has explained this repeatedly every time this specious comparison is made.) Plus the whole point of grazing sheep and cattle is to, as quickly as is feasible, round 'em up and slaughter them.

    Whereas the horses breed unchecked, go wherever they want, and certainly aren't paying for what they wipe out, and aren't any more native than the cattle.



  7. #7
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    Mar. 9, 2006
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    Susan P

    Amen! How many horses use the lands? How many cattle? The solution is to decrease the # of grazing cattle. But, alas, the cattle produce big bucks for a small # of people. And we can pretend the horses are the problem. Remove the horses with public funds, so the ranchers can run more cattle and make more money for themselves. Ahh yes, your government at work for you.



  8. #8
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    Mar. 9, 2006
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    Danceronice,

    No the horses don't pay for the privelege. They are wild animals. What an odd comment. Do the elephants, whales, dolphins, etc pay for the privelege of using their land and ocean. If a private enterprise comes along that would profit if we reduce these species, would we do it? Would it be right?



  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by jolise View Post
    Danceronice,

    No the horses don't pay for the privelege. They are wild animals. What an odd comment. Do the elephants, whales, dolphins, etc pay for the privelege of using their land and ocean. If a private enterprise comes along that would profit if we reduce these species, would we do it? Would it be right?
    Mustangs aren't wild animals, they're feral. There's a very big difference between the two.
    "Are you yawning? You don't ride well enough to yawn. I can yawn, because I ride better than you. Meredith Michael Beerbaum can yawn. But you? Not so much..."
    -George Morris



  10. #10
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    May. 27, 2009
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    Is it feasible to do birth control? I ask because I've been riding a mustang for his owner and I can't imagine there are enough qualified homes out there for all the horses being rounded up!
    Forward momentum!



  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by jolise View Post
    Susan P

    Amen! How many horses use the lands? How many cattle? The solution is to decrease the # of grazing cattle. But, alas, the cattle produce big bucks for a small # of people. And we can pretend the horses are the problem. Remove the horses with public funds, so the ranchers can run more cattle and make more money for themselves. Ahh yes, your government at work for you.
    Cattle permits are extremely closely regulated, permits are for a few WEEKS a year, feral horses are there year around.
    In the past years, in this drought, there have not been any cattle permitted in many areas AT ALL.

    Cattle are MANAGED and this is what the BLM is trying to do, MANAGE so the feral horses don't destroy those ranges for themselves and the true native wildlife in those areas.

    To blame livestock permits is just propaganda by those that just want to have people donate to "save the wild mustang" drives and many times the money doesn't go to that anyway.


    Lets work on the real problem, horse overrunning the ranges, not let some distract us tilting at windmills.



  12. #12
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    I for one, can't wait. My BO adopted one last year and she has been the best horse in the barn in some respects! He wants to get another. I'm hoping some of these from NV will be trucked to our state for an adoption event.

    ETA: Class Action-it is my understanding (I asked when I toured a round up/adoption facility when I was in CA on vacation a few years ago) that the unadoptable horses that have conformation flaws or what have you are gelded and turned back out in a sort of bachelor herd (but I'm not sure how well that pilot program worked)

    It would be hard to spay the mares, and I can't really see how one would do the other temporary bc things out there (like implants, regumate, depo, etc) as that would require the expense of a roundup more frequently (and also the stress)
    Michael: Seems the people who burned me want me for a job.
    Sam: A job? Does it pay?
    Michael: Nah, it's more of a "we'll kill you if you don't do it" type of thing.
    Sam: Oh. I've never liked those.



  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaturdayNightLive View Post
    Mustangs aren't wild animals, they're feral. There's a very big difference between the two.
    Exactly. They're not a native species, they're just competition/habitat destroyers for actual native species. And folklore to the contrary, most are not the descendants of Spanish horses, they're the offspring of ranch escapees and deliberate releases. It's like rabbits in Australia, where they finally had to resort to biological warfare to try and wipe them out. Humans screwed up by releasing them, humans have to clean them up.

    Has anyone come up with reliable permanent means of contracepting the mares shy of spaying? Because really, to control the population, you'd have to sterilize most of them, and like with deer it works better if you remove the breeding females. Though even trying to geld the colts and stallions would be...tricky, from an organizational standpoint.

    And what are they going to do with the ones they're rounding up now, anyway? There aren't a lot of people out there who want a completely unbroke range horse when trained horses are going as cheap as they are. (Not to mention I wouldn't be interested in a BLM horse because of the sheer amount of money I'd have to spend on setup to meet the BLM's housing requirements for them.)



  14. #14
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    Mar. 9, 2006
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    I honestly think it would be more humane and cost effective to shoot them. There won't be many homes for them in this economy. I have been to the adoption events and think it is very sad to watch these horses. The younger ones (under 3 or 4), sure, try to adopt those. But the older ones should be shot on the range or sterilized. Not to mention, the cost to care for these horses once caught is very high. Leave them alone or have regulated shooting.



  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by jolise View Post
    I honestly think it would be more humane and cost effective to shoot them. There won't be many homes for them in this economy. I have been to the adoption events and think it is very sad to watch these horses. The younger ones (under 3 or 4), sure, try to adopt those. But the older ones should be shot on the range or sterilized. Not to mention, the cost to care for these horses once caught is very high. Leave them alone or have regulated shooting.
    I wonder how much a state could get for mustang tags....out of state deer tags are pretty pricey most places but people buy them.

    Though that suggestion would make you about as popular as the people who suggest selling them for slaughter. (Which is another reasonable but highly unpopular suggestion, albeit more pracitcal than chemically euthanizing that many animals.)

    I bet if they rounded up Cloud's band, though, they could hold a live auction and make a fortune--those you wouldn't have trouble selling.



  16. #16
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    Nov. 2, 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by jolise View Post
    I honestly think it would be more humane and cost effective to shoot them. There won't be many homes for them in this economy. I have been to the adoption events and think it is very sad to watch these horses. The younger ones (under 3 or 4), sure, try to adopt those. But the older ones should be shot on the range or sterilized. Not to mention, the cost to care for these horses once caught is very high. Leave them alone or have regulated shooting.

    Good idea, but you can't even get regulated shoots on over populated deer...
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by jolise View Post
    Susan P

    Amen! How many horses use the lands? How many cattle? The solution is to decrease the # of grazing cattle. But, alas, the cattle produce big bucks for a small # of people. And we can pretend the horses are the problem. Remove the horses with public funds, so the ranchers can run more cattle and make more money for themselves. Ahh yes, your government at work for you.

    There are not millions of cattle out on public rangelands. As a few others have already said, cattle numbers, and length of use as well as season of use is monitored and managed. Cattle are not on the range yearlong and they are reduced and removed if range conditions become bad. Removing the horses would not increase the number of cattle on public lands. Public land permits have a set number of AUM's (animal unit months) and those permit numbers are not changed. More times than not, ranchers don't even run their full permitted AUM's due to drought, cattle prices, etc.

    Very few cattle ranchers are rich. A lot of public land ranchers are small family ranches, some of them can't even make a living with the ranch and hold jobs off the ranch to make ends meet. If anybody is making big bucks in cattle, it isn't the majority of ranchers on public land! And I think a lot of these ranches are on their way out. Kids are leaving the ranch and choosing not to stay and keep the ranch running. It is too much work for not much pay.



  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Susan P View Post
    Remove the thousands of mustangs after you remove the millions of cattle. Did anyone think that the cattle are eating the horse's grass? That's private enterprise using public lands.
    this is not the 1930's anymore. cattle do not roam loose or free in herds anymore and the majority of all beef in this country that is purchased at your supermarket is raised in an intense feedlot situation where every single thing a cow eats is analyzed and managed to get optimum weight gain in little time. Cattle are not being raised in large numbers to supply food to this country on open range lands. its just not feasable



  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    Exactly. They're not a native species, they're just competition/habitat destroyers for actual native species. And folklore to the contrary, most are not the descendants of Spanish horses, they're the offspring of ranch escapees and deliberate releases. It's like rabbits in Australia, where they finally had to resort to biological warfare to try and wipe them out. Humans screwed up by releasing them, humans have to clean them up.

    And what are they going to do with the ones they're rounding up now, anyway? There aren't a lot of people out there who want a completely unbroke range horse when trained horses are going as cheap as they are. (Not to mention I wouldn't be interested in a BLM horse because of the sheer amount of money I'd have to spend on setup to meet the BLM's housing requirements for them.)
    I would also like to beg to differ on the fact that you think these horses are not of spanish descent. pretty much all of the wild horses AND ponies roaming in this country are of spanish descent. They have been here for hundreds of hundreds of years. sure, other breeds have been introduced along the way....but go out and do a DNA analysis and mapping on those horses and you are gauranteed to have proof in your hands that those horses are of spanish descent.

    Sure they arn't technically wildlife...but they have been here for hundreds and hundreds of years, long before permanent civilization and they lived wild for all of these years and did just fine; like any other wild animal...they have learned to live off the land and have adapted to live in their surroundings. After living off those ranges for hundreds of years and surviving and reproducing all of those hundreds of years i would most certaintly call them wildlife now. its not like they were dropped there 40 years ago and left...we're talking about hundreds of years ago.

    In addition to the "blame it on the cattle comment"...if food was so scarce because of cattle grazing, the population numbers would not have boomed into what it is today. reproduction occurs in wild animals when food is plentiful and both parents are healthy and able to reproduce. if animals are starving and suffering, chances of successfully reproducing and raising offspring are slim and numbers population numbers wouldn't increase



  20. #20
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    I don't consider a domesticated animal wildlife. They are feral such as the horses, feral cats, feral dogs, sheep, goats, etc. I consider wildlife to be animals that have not been domesticated.



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